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[2018 Rugby Championship] Round 4: New Zealand v South Africa (15/09/2018)

TRF_heineken said:
I'm still in awe about our win this past weekend, especially when I realised that we were now basically on tour for 4 weeks in a row, while NZ were at home for the past 3.

It begs the question that would the results in the past have been so favourable to the AB's had the tournament been more equal to all 4 teams regarding schedules...
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On their second week on tour the South Africans lost to the Wallabies. If anything, winning on their third week away against the best team is evidence to the contrary.
 
Derpus said:
On their second week on tour the South Africans lost to the Wallabies. If anything, winning on their third week away against the best team is evidence to the contrary.
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Well, we've this trend in Super Rugby too in that the second week for some reason is where our teams always play poorly when on tour, so I don't know if it's the second week syndrome, or the third-week-we're-going-home mindset...
 
TRF_heineken said:
The thing is that the Springboks have 3 consecutive away games, making their tour way longer than any other team. While the All Blacks host 3 consecutive tests, with Australia and Argentina being in the middle of touring 1 or 2 weeks at a time.

There is a reason why SANZAAR is looking into changing the schedule of the RC to even things up...
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What ever they do to the schedule, each team should still play each other home and away. 6 games each.
 
south african teams did perform better in the super rugby this season in NZ than in the past as well, i think they are learning to cope with the travel better
 
Steve-o said:
Spot on, except for Barrett's kicking imo. He had the worst kicking stats for top tier nations in 2016 and hasn't improved since. He's hovering around 70% which is really poor for an international 10, even 2nd tier teams.

On the ABs going for a try vs a drop goal topic: it's clear that the ABs focus on high payoff areas of the game. In it's most simple form, scoring tries and stopping their opponents from scoring tries.
What makes rugby union a great game is all the aspects you need to be good at to be a 'total' team. And also being able to score in all the possible ways. The All Blacks aren't good at drop goals, and off the tee in general lately, so therefore they weren't good at scoring enough on this occasion. It hasn't cost them the last 9 years / 56 out of 57 matches at home, and it probably won't for the next 50+ games. They got caught out by a determined Bok team who outscored them and pressed them the right way, as only the Boks historical have.
If I was the All Blacks I too would have gone for the try because they were literally inches away from Ben Smith racing into the corner and the whole world cursing of another typical AB victory. DM's knock-on was a forced error. If they went for a drop goal and missed it would have been an unforced error.
Excluding Sexton's drop goal (absolute balls of steel to take that one) the other drop goals mentioned that won important matches were not at the death, therefore not an all or nothing option. They were typically near the end and gave the team the points needed so that they put the ball in the other team's court to come up with extra points.

That said, as a Bok supporter it's awesome to see the cat being let out amongst the pigeons in some NZers psyche about this loss :D I don't think the ABs would be over analysing this one though
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One drop.jpg
 
what do you guys think of this?

https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/boks-were-done-in-by-nigel-owens/

mark reason from stuff nz

..And don't be fooled by the final scoreline. South Africa were absolutely done in by Nigel Owens. The All Blacks scored a first half try preceded by a colossal Lienert-Brown knock-on. And Owens gave the All Blacks seven consecutive second half penalties in the space of 22 minutes, half of which were absurd.

He gave Le Roux a yellow card extremely harshly. He was offside, but since when can't you dive to make a tackle. But the most ridiculous moment was when South Africa regained possession on their line and Owens blew his whistle. Owens had made no prior ruling. He was giving the All Blacks a chance to win phase possession. But when it went the other way, Owens made a retrospective ruling.

This was referee not ruling on what he saw, but playing God. We have seen it twice before from Owens and it is completely unacceptable. He should be warned for it. Happily for South Africa, Owens did not deny them a deserved victory, he just narrowed the margin.
 
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i havn't watched it again yet. but was the ball knocked out off McKenzie's hands by a South African player in the final play of the game?
 
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petite said:
what do you guys think of this?

https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/boks-were-done-in-by-nigel-owens/

mark reason from stuff nz

..And don't be fooled by the final scoreline. South Africa were absolutely done in by Nigel Owens. The All Blacks scored a first half try preceded by a colossal Lienert-Brown knock-on. And Owens gave the All Blacks seven consecutive second half penalties in the space of 22 minutes, half of which were absurd.

He gave Le Roux a yellow card extremely harshly. He was offside, but since when can't you dive to make a tackle. But the most ridiculous moment was when South Africa regained possession on their line and Owens blew his whistle. Owens had made no prior ruling. He was giving the All Blacks a chance to win phase possession. But when it went the other way, Owens made a retrospective ruling.

This was referee not ruling on what he saw, but playing God. We have seen it twice before from Owens and it is completely unacceptable. He should be warned for it. Happily for South Africa, Owens did not deny them a deserved victory, he just narrowed the margin.
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His job is to annoy his readers, so, probably you can assume it's mostly half truths or twisted logic.

1. Lienert-Brown knock-on: Don't know, didn't see it.
2. seven consecutive second half penalties: If it happened the other way he would be writing about persistent infringing, more cards ... bla bla bla. Read the NZ v Arg thread on this site for context when NZ conceded 5 consecutive penalties.
3. Le Roux yellow card. Clear and obvious professional foul. What is up for discussion? Owens' explanantion? What a scandal.
4. South Africa regained possession on their line: Held up in goal. I guess it's maybe techicnally possible to rip a ball clear from someone who has dived over the line and is held up, but I've never seen that ruled before. TBH it was hard for me tell actually what happened, and when and how it ended up on the South African side. It's equally hard for Reason to tell.

Reason is poison. Nothing is a barrier to him making a point that will generate clicks. Even out right stating that a referee is a biased cheat or teams are match fixing.

His job is resident Englishmen for Fairfax (Stuff) to write a weekly article to annoy his local New Zealand readers.

To put it in context. A New Zealander scores a cricket test match triple century lasting 3 days. Reason's weekly article insinuates the Indian opposition were match fixing, because they dropped a catch 1 hour into his 15 hour innings, and looked a bit lethargic by the 12th hour they spent fielding.

He's not a crackpot, he a successful cynical troll. But that's the level of crackpot you are entering into if you lap this stuff up.
 
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petite said:
what do you guys think of this?

https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/boks-were-done-in-by-nigel-owens/

mark reason from stuff nz

..And don't be fooled by the final scoreline. South Africa were absolutely done in by Nigel Owens. The All Blacks scored a first half try preceded by a colossal Lienert-Brown knock-on. And Owens gave the All Blacks seven consecutive second half penalties in the space of 22 minutes, half of which were absurd.

He gave Le Roux a yellow card extremely harshly. He was offside, but since when can't you dive to make a tackle. But the most ridiculous moment was when South Africa regained possession on their line and Owens blew his whistle. Owens had made no prior ruling. He was giving the All Blacks a chance to win phase possession. But when it went the other way, Owens made a retrospective ruling.

This was referee not ruling on what he saw, but playing God. We have seen it twice before from Owens and it is completely unacceptable. He should be warned for it. Happily for South Africa, Owens did not deny them a deserved victory, he just narrowed the margin.
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You arent allowed to whinge about the ref, even if justified. Particularly in front of a kiwi.

The only call that i thought was particularly egregious (Nige always has a slight All Blacks tilt, he's in love) was the 30 meter advantage. He just stopped pretending at that point.
 
petite said:
what do you guys think of this?

https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/boks-were-done-in-by-nigel-owens/

mark reason from stuff nz

..And don't be fooled by the final scoreline. South Africa were absolutely done in by Nigel Owens. The All Blacks scored a first half try preceded by a colossal Lienert-Brown knock-on. And Owens gave the All Blacks seven consecutive second half penalties in the space of 22 minutes, half of which were absurd.

He gave Le Roux a yellow card extremely harshly. He was offside, but since when can't you dive to make a tackle. But the most ridiculous moment was when South Africa regained possession on their line and Owens blew his whistle. Owens had made no prior ruling. He was giving the All Blacks a chance to win phase possession. But when it went the other way, Owens made a retrospective ruling.

This was referee not ruling on what he saw, but playing God. We have seen it twice before from Owens and it is completely unacceptable. He should be warned for it. Happily for South Africa, Owens did not deny them a deserved victory, he just narrowed the margin.
Click to expand...

Mark Reason has pet hates and Nigel Owen's refereeing is at the top of his list. Beauden Barrett at 1st five is another, Steve Hansen continuing to coach the All Blacks is another. There are many more and they invariably involve the All Blacks being cheats, being deliberately coached to play dirty, having refs go easy on them, etc, etc.....basically a summary of most Englishmen's gripes when it comes to the All Blacks.
 
Five Meters Out said:
Mark Reason has pet hates and Nigel Owen's refereeing is at the top of his list. Beauden Barrett at 1st five is another, Steve Hansen continuing to coach the All Blacks is another. There are many more and they invariably involve the All Blacks being cheats, being deliberately coached to play dirty, having refs go easy on them, etc, etc.....basically a summary of most Englishmen's gripes when it comes to the All Blacks.
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Maybe Mark Reason hates gays?

I actually don't know the answer to that question, but that's the kind of thing he'd be prepared to insinuate about others, if it made for good copy.
 
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I thought Owens had a relative good game, but that scrum right at the end he got wrong and Liam Squire made a late no arm tackle on Whiteley when he passed to Diyanti for his second try. We see this too often where tries "nullify" penalties, it should be a penalty on half way after the conversion attempt.
 
N
Bull said:
I thought Owens had a relative good game, but that scrum right at the end he got wrong and Liam Squire made a late no arm tackle on Whiteley when he passed to Diyanti for his second try. We see this too often where tries "nullify" penalties, it should be a penalty on half way after the conversion attempt.
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Nah. If there is a penalty in the lead up to the try then they score the try under advantage. If they score a try, they've gained an advantage. Just as if they had made 10 metres of territory.
 
I also feel like he was a bit harsher on the Boks. That scrum that the Boks dominated but Owens gives a penalty to AB? why does the TMO give Owens advise on infringements when Boks do stuff but not when the AB did things like in the maul when our player was lifted and was basically upside down or no arm tackle on Whiteley. Then there's the incredibly long advantage's played and the knock on before a try is scored but not looked at...

Other than the above issues i felt he reffed well
 
what a great game that was at the weekend. thought the Boks were fantastic and they're defence was outstanding. thought the AB's played pretty well but some unusual errors let them down at big moments. the less said about B Barrett's goalkicking the better, though. what I can't fathom is how the Boks lost to the Wallabies the week before. as for Nigel Owens thought he was distinctly average again at the weekend. however, the Le Roux yellow card was correct because he did stop a line-break and it was a professional foul. do think though he missed a clear knock-on in the build up to one All Black try and he also failed to punish illegal counter-rucking by the All Blacks which happens every game and which never gets picked up on. Also, what's happened with the law about players staying on their feet at the ruck, the amount of players off their feet in every ruck now is ridiculous, but every team does it. referees need to stop it.
 

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