2018 NatWest Six Nations: Round 1 - France v Ireland

[Leonormous Boozer]

France v Ireland
Stade de France - 17.45 (Local Time)
​

Win this, which we should, and we're favourites for champo. The Irish camp seems far too comfortable and confident, that's when you have to worry as a fan!

 

[jcahill1]

What do people think about Toner being dropped? I love James Ryan but am a bit worried that Toners loss will be felt for maul defence. He seems to always manage to use those long arms to disrupt the man in possession at the back. I also hope Conway makes the bench ahead of McFadden, although my dad met McFadden lately and said he was absolutely dying to get back in.

 

[Leinster Fan]

Everything is sure we're going to win, which in Irish rugby is a sure sign that we're going to pathetically lose by twenty points, especially given that it's in Paris.

I hope Stockdale starts, I think we need him a lot more than we realise in that he's a genuine try scorer and that's something no Irish back since BOD can say. McFadden will be on the bench in all likelihood because Joe is a fan of his and experience is what we need in Paris. I'd be surprised if he was involved against Italy though.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

James Ryan's upside is too hard to ignore. Ireland will have maybe 18-20 games before the next World Cup to get him up to the pace of international rugby. We know what Devin Toner can do. For him to make the World Cup at 33, his game time needs to be managed more. I like the call even if it's a bit risky.

 

[jcahill1]

Yeah I feel that with Irelands reliance on close-in carries under Schmidt having a carrier like Ryan is especially valuable. He always seems to make yards with the ball. I suppose Toner is on the bench to steady the ship if necessary.

Everything is sure we're going to win, which in Irish rugby is a sure sign that we're going to pathetically lose by twenty points, especially given that it's in Paris.

I hope Stockdale starts, I think we need him a lot more than we realise in that he's a genuine try scorer and that's something no Irish back since BOD can say. McFadden will be on the bench in all likelihood because Joe is a fan of his and experience is what we need in Paris. I'd be surprised if he was involved against Italy though.

I like Stockdale as well, I feel that a lot of our backline moves over the last few years have been inches away from tearing teams apart, and Stockdales pace could make up those inches!

 

[munstermuffin]

A wounded France is a dangerous France. Not to fussed on how Ireland do but will watch with interest.
On team Ryan ahead of Toner is correct call. I think Toner has been a bit inconsistent and Ryan offers alot.
Backrow I would have went for Leavy myself but can't argue on Van Der Flier.
Biggest issue is who do you play on wings.
Earls is a left winger and the best winger in ability and form in the country. Stockdale has said he hates the right wing. Do you play him there or sacrifice Earls playing in his best position.
Does Conway become a factor.

I would be shocked if McFadden does make the bench. Yes he has been playing well but if Conway or Stockdale bench they offer the 15 and wing options. And Carbery offers 15 and 10 and 12 cover.

@Leinster Fan I'd disagree also on try scoring comment as Earls is a natural try scorer and has proven that. Also think there is too many big guns there. Also Tommy Bowe was a naturally gifted finisher.

Also interesting that it's noted the units are trained in that we expect Healy and Furlong will play as a unit and Ryan and McGrath.

 

[munstermuffin]

Ireland team rumoured
Kearney
Stockdale
Henshaw
Aki
Earls
Sexton
Murray
Healy
Best
Furlong
Ryan
Henderson
O'Mahony
Van Der Flier
Stander

Cronin
McGrath
Ryan
Toner
Murphy
McGrath
Carbery
McFadden

Conway will take 23 shirt if fit

 

[JJFlash]

The whipping boys :

Le XV de départ face à l'Irlande : 15. Palis ; 14. Thomas, 12. Chavancy, 13. Lamerat, 11. Vakatawa ; 10. Jalibert, 9. Machenaud ; 7. Camara, 8. Gourdon, 6. Lauret ; 5.Vahaamahina , 4.Iturria ; 3. Slimani, 2. Guirado (cap), 1. Poirot.

Les remplaçants : 16. Pelissié, 17. Priso, 18. Gomez SA, 19. Gabrillagues, 20. Tauleigne, 21. Dupont, 22. Belleau, 23. Fall.

If the French backs get plenty of quick ball - an enormous IF, then they will score tries, but the irish pack will have the measure of the French and secure an easy win for thier team.

 

[MikeTheNative]

I don't know too much about the FB what is he like? Very brave move with a 19YO, I hope it works out and doesn't end up like Tait. i think that's a pretty decent team on paper, but apologises for the cliche but you never know if they are going to be able to put it together on the pitch.

 

[JJFlash]

I don't know too much about the FB what is he like? Very brave move with a 19YO, I hope it works out and doesn't end up like Tait. i think that's a pretty decent team on paper, but apologises for the cliche but you never know if they are going to be able to put it together on the pitch.

Neither do I! Jalibert is apparently a very talented player, although I've not seen him play so can't really comment.
Will they be able to put it together on the pitch? There's always a chance, I suppose, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Ireland by at least 20.

 

[Groundhog]

Wouldn't says Toner fits the bill of a 'finisher' myself unless our set piece is going arseways.
Great to see Cronin back as Ireland number two two number two

 

[big ginger 8]

Wouldn't says Toner fits the bill of a 'finisher' myself unless our set piece is going arseways.
Great to see Cronin back as Ireland number two two number two

Probably a decent closer if we want to maintain a lead. Get through his hard work in the loose and fix up any problems in the set piece. Probably handy to have him in the 23 as well for helping with any problems in the lineout since he'd know it best.

 

[munstermuffin]

Add in if Toner not 23 what are alternatives. Rest have pros but negatives too. Toner has dipped slightly but is still better option than rest.

 

[big ginger 8]

Conway is out for 2 weeks anyway. Good chance of seeing Larmour next week.

 

[Leinster Fan]

I'd disagree also on try scoring comment as Earls is a natural try scorer and has proven that. Also think there is too many big guns there. Also Tommy Bowe was a naturally gifted finisher.

I know what you're saying, but our attack has been very blunt in periods over the last few years and Earls has been a part of that (granted he's in brilliant form at the moment) and if you asked me to pick an Irish player to finish a chance from five metres in the corner I'd pick Stockdale every time. I kind of associate Tommy Bowe with BOD and his generation of players to be honest.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Earls totally deserves his place but it's time for him to step up and prove his worth against top opposition. Of his 24 Irish tries 8 have been against tier 1 opposition (Italy excluded) Stockdale already has three against tier 1 opponents so I think Leinster fan's assessment is fair. Earl's can do it and I hope he does because I think it's too soon for Larmour who looks like the only other wing option with that sort of try scoring potential.

 

[munstermuffin]

I know what you're saying, but our attack has been very blunt in periods over the last few years and Earls has been a part of that (granted he's in brilliant form at the moment) and if you asked me to pick an Irish player to finish a chance from five metres in the corner I'd pick Stockdale every time. I kind of associate Tommy Bowe with BOD and his generation of players to be honest.

But it's blunt due to game plan not the player and Alpha that isn't an accurate assumption as many wouldn't class that Arg team as tier 1 and South Africa were awful. Add in Italy are Tier 1 and it all stacks up. He also has set up a fair share.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

But it's blunt due to game plan not the player and Alpha that isn't an accurate assumption as many wouldn't class that Arg team as tier 1 and South Africa were awful. Add in Italy are Tier 1 and it all stacks up. He also has set up a fair share.

Nah I don't agree with that. Those sides are at least as good as the 4th place Welsh side he got two against in 2010, or their RWC warm up team from 2015 and the 4th place Scottish side in 2016. He's played under Kidney and Schmidt when players like Bowe and Trimble could score tries at times, he has one try against Rugby Championship opposition in 15 games and the same strinke rate in 15 games against England and France. For a player with his ability, who is often branded a "world class finisher", and the hype that surrounds him when he performs for Munster it is undeniable that he has had an underwhelming international career with a strike rate and tier 1 strike rate only marginally better than Fergus McFadden's who no one has ever claimed as world class, outside maybe his defensive work, and was often scrutinised for his lack of finishing ability. (On average a try in 38% of his games with 1/3rd against tier 1 opposition v McFadden's try in 32% with 3/10 against tier 1)
Now is the time to change that, he's in the form of his life and should be one of our two main try scoring threats in a strong and settled side for the remainder of this RWC cycle, he has a class of player behind him that will require it too.

 

[munstermuffin]

Nah I don't agree with that. Those sides are at least as good as the 4th place Welsh side he got two against in 2010, or their RWC warm up team from 2015 and the 4th place Scottish side in 2016. He's played under Kidney and Schmidt when players like Bowe and Trimble could score tries at times, he has one try against Rugby Championship opposition in 15 games and the same strinke rate in 15 games against England and France. For a player with his ability, who is often branded a "world class finisher", and the hype that surrounds him when he performs for Munster it is undeniable that he has had an underwhelming international career with a strike rate and tier 1 strike rate only marginally better than Fergus McFadden's who no one has ever claimed as world class, outside maybe his defensive work, and was often scrutinised for his lack of finishing ability. (On average a try in 38% of his games with 1/3rd against tier 1 opposition v McFadden's try in 32% with 3/10 against tier 1)
Now is the time to change that, he's in the form of his life and should be one of our two main try scoring threats in a strong and settled side for the remainder of this RWC cycle, he has a class of player behind him that will require it too.

We will agree to disagree so but just so I straight. You thought that Arg team last Nov was tier 1 and South Africa team? A team without all their starters ba see abroad and other in middle of meltdown?
But guess it like saying with Talent available Schmidt is hailed a world class coach but has failed to win a slam and only has 2 Championships. Earls was A centre for a lot of those caps too so his strike rate as a winger is a lot higher than McFadden.

But as I say if you disagree then fair enough. As it shows in a way why a lot down this end a) Don't rate Schmidt as high as in Dublin b) Don't have much interest in Ireland anymore or c) think there is bias.

Also for what it's worth Earls strike rate as a winger the last 3 years is 14 tries in 23 games which is 60%. But as I say you will pick and change to suit your way and I probably do same. Fact is Earls has proven for Munster and Ireland he's a finisher. If you disagree that is fair enough but well I suppose facts are there to interpret as suits.
Also in his Super Rugby apps at least a few of those caps were only a few minutes.

 

[jcahill1]

But as I say if you disagree then fair enough. As it shows in a way why a lot down this end a) Don't rate Schmidt as high as in Dublin b) Don't have much interest in Ireland anymore or c) think there is bias.

Is it really at the point of losing interest in supporting your country? Didn't think we were at France levels.