[2017 Rugby Championship] Round 4: New Zealand v South Africa (16/09/2017)

[Nubiwan]

Nothing ruins a game more than knowing you have taped it and can avoid the ignominy of sitting thru a thrashing. I taped the game, as no way I was getting up at 5 AM to watch it. As it turned out, I was up at 7:30 ish, came down, put on a pot of coffee, and strapped myself in. What a disappointment you All Blacks can prove to be. 15 opening minutes of general SA dominance in the sets and play, and they were down 10-0 to the clinical Blacks. Annoying!

When Skudder intercepted 50 meters out, the temptation to hit the fast forward button was simply too great. Now glad I did. I want to see a contest, not a cricket score. 50 odd nil was that last score I saw as the match whizzed by in 30-40 seconds on fast forward. Can someone tell me I can go back and watch the entire 80 minutes to see my contest? If so, then I am happy to oblige. As such, I cannot pass comment on anything, rather than suggest the Boks inability to really dominate the Wallabies last week, rather set the stage for their rugby enlightenment. The Wallabies draw with NZ in the previous rounds more a freak than anything to do with form. You Kiwis are just too annoyingly good to be entertaining. You are killing the game as a spectacle. Think about that for a minute. While a tongue in cheek statement, no one cares to see the blowouts.

Thank goodness for the British Lions ability to provide a physical contest for the ABs, even if beneficiaries of some dubious refereeing. The contests were still closer and more intriguing. Do we really have to wait another 12 years to see a team be able to compete with the ABs again?

I am now sitting watching Los Pumas V the Oz, and while the intensity and tempo, is not as high, there is a contest on show, and more intrigue. The Pumas can compete with any world union, which is to their credit, considering where they were about 25 years ago. 17-13 for the Wallabies at present, but I'd fancy the Pumas to take this, if they can perform at the level they did against the ABs last week. 24-13 as I speak. Going to take a big effort to justify my statement now.

The ABS should be forced to play a 2nd XV to make games fair.

 

[smartcooky]

Thank goodness for the British Lions ability to provide a physical contest for the ABs, even if beneficiaries of some dubious refereeing. The contests were still closer and more intriguing. Do we really have to wait another 12 years to see a team be able to compete with the ABs again?

The ABS should be forced to play a 2nd XV to make games fair.

Whinging about how good the All Blacks are achieves nothing.

Yes, they have set the bar very high, but its up to other teams to get better. What they are doing, and how they play is plain for everyone to see, so there is no reason why any team anywhere in the world shold not be able to match it.

 

[smartcooky]

Just seen the score, this is shambolic for rugby, didnt give the boks a chance when i saw their team and more importantly the ref, but for rugbys sake the boks should never lose so badly

Good old squirrel, always blaming the ref.... this time, before the match has even been played.

 

[mdaclarke]

At this level you need 15 strong players, I'd rather the Boks play with 14 than have Rhule in the side. The all blacks just run at him and get through the hole he leaves. He does more harm than good.

 

[Crazy Horse]

Too much time in the weight room for the Boks? Every player was bursting out of his jersey - impressive musculature but outweighing your opponent by 15kg is useless if playing an opponent with an expansive high-skill game and you run out of energy after 60 minutes.

 

[Ridzenieks]

The more revenge for 2007 the better. Idk about others, but since that day in 07 I have always found beating the French deeply satisfying. Not gonna lie, I have never been more bitter about anything than that 07 quarter final lol [/QUOT

It isn't/wasn't the fault of any French team that the (cynically unprofessional) RFU establishment manufactured a result by which England did not play NZ in the semi.

 

[FrenchFan]

Too much time in the weight room for the Boks? Every player was bursting out of his jersey - impressive musculature but outweighing your opponent by 15kg is useless if playing an opponent with an expansive high-skill game and you run out of energy after 60 minutes.

the NZ pack is the heavier one.

 

[Crazy Horse]

the NZ pack is the heavier one.

Not the forwards. I'm talking about the backs. Starting with the scrumhalf and on up. NZ aways seems to win the last 20 minutes. Whatever their conditioning coaches are doing is clearly giving them a significant edge on the opposition.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Thank goodness for the British Lions ability to provide a physical contest for the ABs, even if beneficiaries of some dubious refereeing. The contests were still closer and more intriguing. Do we really have to wait another 12 years to see a team be able to compete with the ABs again?

Or Ireland who beat them last year and definitely would have done as good a job, if not better, this summer against a misfiring NZ side, England too. NZ's main challengers are in the north now, I expect England to turn them over in Twickenham next year and I wouldn't fear them all that much in Dublin if they were to come. Today a very good team beat an average side who managed to hide their weaknesses against other average sides in previous weeks, not an unbeatable test side by any means. It might take 12 years for their to be competition in The Rugby Championship, but that will be due to Argentina developing to their full potential and/or SA sorting out their off field problems. NZ's level won't fluctuate much (And hasn't since around 2005) they won't likely be as good as the golden generation just past anytime soon but will never be as "bad" as the imbalanced side they brought to the 03 RWC again... Unless they give Gats his dream job.

 

[Ospervat]

AC Reaction to loss:-

http://m.sarugbymag.co.za/?postslug...s-for-boks#/coetzee-lot-of-positives-for-boks

AC trying to pass off shambolic mediocrity as acceptable. Sorry but the intelligent public do know that this Bok performance is a perfect example of everything that is wrong in SA today. Ineptocracy from the top down. We're not the idiots - you are!

 

[User1245]

Alright, who's going to start the crisis thread so we can whinge about what is wrong with SA rugby and why?

The fact that AC even mentioned the word positive after the match has me fuming. What planet is this guy on?!

The illusion that we're rivals with NZ has now been put to bed. They're now the team we have a crack at knowing we're going to loose either way.

 

[FrenchFan]

Brutal viewing. Particularly if you are French or Argentine. They got dominated by a side that in turn just got creamed. Frightening stuff really.

well I'm not sure about Argentina. But you have a point. I couldn't say if the series win in June made the Boks think they were better than they actually are (or maybe they couldn't conclude much about themselves as they realise how poor the opposition was?). Hard to say.

Maybe the lesson is that beating abysmal opposition in test rugby like the current French team is no yardstick of anything.

I think top sides have very high standards. They won't settle for a win. They also demand individual and collective performance with it. And they will keep playing with the foot down for 80 like NZ until they do.

 

[Iron Lion Zion]

Or Ireland who beat them last year and definitely would have done as good a job, if not better, this summer against a misfiring NZ side, England too. NZ's main challengers are in the north now, I expect England to turn them over in Twickenham next year and I wouldn't fear them all that much in Dublin if they were to come. Today a very good team beat an average side who managed to hide their weaknesses against other average sides in previous weeks, not an unbeatable test side by any means. It might take 12 years for their to be competition in The Rugby Championship, but that will be due to Argentina developing to their full potential and/or SA sorting out their off field problems. NZ's level won't fluctuate much (And hasn't since around 2005) they won't likely be as good as the golden generation just past anytime soon but will never be as "bad" as the imbalanced side they brought to the 03 RWC again... Unless they give Gats his dream job.

Ireland vs All Blacks - 30 games
Ireland 1 win - All Blacks 28 wins - 1 draw

I would not count on Ireland beating the All Blacks anytime soon

Also take note All Blacks played an experimental side against ireland in Chicago and paid the price for it. The rematch in Dublin was a crushing exercise where the All Backs effectivey crushed the air out of the Irish lungs. Lets please be realistic - Ireland nor England will be challenging the All Blacks anytime soon. If it was not for some very very fortunate and gifted reffing the Lions would not have drawn with the All Blacks. After all the lions only lead for all of 3 mins across the entire 3 match series.

If anything since the Lions series I fear the All Blacks have used that to improve even further. New Zealands golden period is NOT finished. They just put 57 points to 0 on a side that by all probable means would probably beat Ireland and England by at least 12 points.

England beat the All Blacks??? only in the build up by the press, if they play now then the All Blacks beat England by 30 points.

 

[Spuds100]

Or Ireland who beat them last year and definitely would have done as good a job, if not better, this summer against a misfiring NZ side, England too. NZ's main challengers are in the north now, I expect England to turn them over in Twickenham next year and I wouldn't fear them all that much in Dublin if they were to come. Today a very good team beat an average side who managed to hide their weaknesses against other average sides in previous weeks, not an unbeatable test side by any means. It might take 12 years for their to be competition in The Rugby Championship, but that will be due to Argentina developing to their full potential and/or SA sorting out their off field problems. NZ's level won't fluctuate much (And hasn't since around 2005) they won't likely be as good as the golden generation just past anytime soon but will never be as "bad" as the imbalanced side they brought to the 03 RWC again... Unless they give Gats his dream job.

Just had to sign up to point out that this is incorrect. Ireland beat a trial/B side team, even though history may not record that detail. The game was in the USA, and so is definitely not an indication that Ireland ever beat a genuine All Black side. I mean, there's a reason the All Blacks were able to turn up in Dublin a week later and beat the Irish in their own country.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Did this guy creating the second account convince everyone else too?

 

[smartcooky]

Just had to sign up to point out that this is incorrect. Ireland beat a trial/B side team, even though history may not record that detail. The game was in the USA, and so is definitely not an indication that Ireland ever beat a genuine All Black side. I mean, there's a reason the All Blacks were able to turn up in Dublin a week later and beat the Irish in their own country.

Hang on a minute. I don't agree that it was a trial/B side at all

1. Moody
2. Coles
3. O. Franks
4. Kaino
5. Tuipulotu
6. Squire
7. Cane
8. Read (C)
9. A. Smith
10. B Barrett
11. Savea
12. Crotty
13. Moala
14. Naholo
15 B. Smith

Reserves
16. Taylor
17. Tu'ungafasi
18. Faumuina
19. Barrett
20. A. Savea
21. Perenara
22. Cruden
23 Fekitoa

You can't tell me that was a Trial or B side. Yes, they were missing Whitelock and Retallick, and had Kaino out of position, but one of the great things about the All Blacks is their depth and the ability for their players to play different roles and positions in the team. They could and should have been able to deal with it - take a look at the team I just posted, and compare it with the team that just hammered the Boks last night. There is not a lot of difference!

IMO, this team in the Chicago match made two crucial errors

1. They took their eye off the prize instead of sticking with their standard training regime (too much sightseeing, not enough focus), and that either resulted from, or resulted in,

2. Taking Ireland too lightly. They expected to win.

The Irish must have realised very early on in the game that the intensity and physicality wasn't there from the All Blacks and they took full advantage of this - and bloody good on them for doing so. It was a salutatory lesson and a wake up call for the players.

 

[mania]

Can't help but feel that ABs have been pretty disappointed in themselves and the boks were on the receiving end of that anger.
Lots of denigrating the ABs and Barrett from media and public and ABs just had enough and took it out on boks
I'm happy the ABs played a complete 80 minute game to shut up the haters. It had to be against the boks as well as no other side is held in as high esteem as the mighty boks.

 

[mania]

Hang on a minute. I don't agree that it was a trial/B side at all

Agree. ABs got their come uppence fair n square. Ireland deserved their win vs a #1 quality ABs team. U can't win them all

 

[sharkfan]

Hats of to you Kiwis for still respecting and holding the Boks in such a high regard despite what happened yesterday

Can't help but feel that ABs have been pretty disappointed in themselves and the boks were on the receiving end of that anger.
Lots of denigrating the ABs and Barrett from media and public and ABs just had enough and took it out on boks
I'm happy the ABs played a complete 80 minute game to shut up the haters. It had to be against the boks as well as no other side is held in as high esteem as the mighty boks.

ats

 

[The Jones Boy]

gg

that was 10 years ago?! I see you got over it quickly. have you tried therapy?

10 years, thats nothing, try 1995 RWC final... that still gets my goat.