[2017 RBS Six Nations] Round 3: England vs Italy (26/02/2017)

[TheSaffycen]

I would like to see Slade and Ford playing together if the game gets really loose. Farrell is brilliant but I think the other 2 couple really put points on Italy.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I would like to see Slade and Ford playing together if the game gets really loose. Farrell is brilliant but I think the other 2 couple really put points on Italy.

If Slade came on at 12 for Faz would he be kicker or Ford?

 

[Scotty]

Bring them on at half time if we've a decent grip of the game.

Agreed to am extent but kinda think it will work abit better and more of an impact if we let second half start and then surprise them early but if we are dwstroying them then yeh give them a full half

 

[Which Tyler]

If Slade came on at 12 for Faz would he be kicker or Ford?

If that happens, it'll be to open up the try scoring, and kicking (for points) will be irrelevant by then.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Personally I'm not sure I 100% follow the logic of this change.

On the one hand I was thinking it made little sense to change the 10-12 axis - that's because imagine the best case scenario against Italy - we play sublime rugby and win 70 - 0. EJ would still without doubt start Farrell and Ford for the upcoming big games against Scotland and Ireland, so what would be the point. It would only rob us of a chance at consistency and to prepare for those games.

But on the other hand if you want to see how it goes playing a bit differently, how different is it really going to be? Are you seriously considering Teo to replace Joseph? If so fine, but I doubt that's the case because even without his best form Joseph has done fine.

I then also just disagree about Daly. Yes he can play well on the wing but he plays better at 13. As a second choice, I'd have him at 15. Then we could play both Nowell and May.

The real experimentation here would have involved Slade, and we're rapidly losing an opportunity to get him properly involved imo.

 

[McTallshort]

10. Farrell
12. Slade
13. Daly

If only...

 

[Peat]

Personally I'm not sure I 100% follow the logic of this change.

On the one hand I was thinking it made little sense to change the 10-12 axis - that's because imagine the best case scenario against Italy - we play sublime rugby and win 70 - 0. EJ would still without doubt start Farrell and Ford for the upcoming big games against Scotland and Ireland, so what would be the point. It would only rob us of a chance at consistency and to prepare for those games.

But on the other hand if you want to see how it goes playing a bit differently, how different is it really going to be? Are you seriously considering Teo to replace Joseph? If so fine, but I doubt that's the case because even without his best form Joseph has done fine.

I then also just disagree about Daly. Yes he can play well on the wing but he plays better at 13. As a second choice, I'd have him at 15. Then we could play both Nowell and May.

The real experimentation here would have involved Slade, and we're rapidly losing an opportunity to get him properly involved imo.

I think its potentially a big change.

Right now neither of our centres are convincing taking crash lines. We're struggling to get front foot ball a bit as a result and teams can also spread out against us that little bit more wrong, hurting our ability to destroy teams out wide.

Te'o is obviously very comfortable taking on crash ball. Te'o is definitely a player that defences are going to try and get two tacklers on at all times. I don't know whether he gets us more good ball (if he doesn't, he's probably failed) but in theory he should and he should definitely make defences stand more narrow.

That physical option should create a lot more space out wide. Ironically, Joseph would have loved it - I think he'd enjoy playing outside Te'o - but May and Daly will profit instead. This could potentially be a pretty big change.

And Daly doesn't change that. He's not a crash ball option either and if Jones is happy with Brown, then he's not a bad option to have on the wing. He's far better placed to take advantage of the extra space than Nowell and offers a better territorial kicking option than either May or Nowell.

I fail to see what playing Slade would have changed tbh.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

A pretty terrifying analysis of how Italys backs have regressed under O'Shea and Catt. Canna is a shadow of the bright young talent that was going to lead us through to 2023.

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/analysis-two-areas-for-italy-to-quickly-improve/

 

[TRF_Olyy]

We'll be missing farrell for the Argentina tour, anyway, so we can fanny about with the centres then

 

[MrFalcon]

First post - be gentle!

It bemuses me the amount of negativity towards Farrell on here! He's quality he really is, best goal kicker in the world by a mile and since he's been at 12 with Ford at 10 he has upped his game to another level. Our best player in the last 18 months IMO.

10. Ford
12. Fax
13. Daly

That would be my choice going forward.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

First post - be gentle!

It bemuses me the amount of negativity towards Farrell on here! He's quality he really is, best goal kicker in the world by a mile and since he's been at 12 with Ford at 10 he has upped his game to another level. Our best player in the last 18 months IMO.

10. Ford
12. Fax
13. Daly

That would be my choice going forward.

Another way to look at it is, if we had a decent 12 would Farrell be starting? I don't think so. Apart from goal kicking and defence he is a long way behind Ford. What we haven't seen is Farrell given a shot at 10 under Eddie Jones and that speaks volumes about Fords ability and our lack of 12 options.

 

[Peat]

Welcome to the forum MrFalcon.

I think most negativity here is about the idea of going back to 10 rather than his current play at 12.

I would add that a quick visit to www.goalkickers.co.za does pour a lot of cold water on the idea he's the best goal kicker in the world. Very good and the best we've got, but there's a bunch of others clearly up there too.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

It must be several days since the last Faz v Ford debate.

Apart from goal kicking and defence he is a long way behind Ford.

I disagree in any event, but make you it sound those are nice to haves rather than the essential skills that determine so many matches. Faz is also mentally tougher and embodies the reason why we've been so hard to beat. Ford's got the nicer to watch skills, but we'd miss Faz a lot more.

One will be in Lions match day squad if not the starting XV. The other is scrapping for a place on the plane.

 

[martinspoonboy1]

It must be several days since the last Faz v Ford debate.

I disagree in any event, but make you it sound those are nice to haves rather than the essential skills that determine so many matches. Faz is also mentally tougher and embodies the reason why we've been so hard to beat. Ford's got the nicer to watch skills, but we'd miss Faz a lot more.

One will be in Lions match day squad if not the starting XV. The other is scrapping for a place on the plane.

+1 . There's a reason Faz is 1/66 to make the tour while Ford is 2/5. And not just that we're a bit short of 12s. He's the heart of this England team.

 

[Peat]

It must be several days since the last Faz v Ford debate.

I disagree in any event, but make you it sound those are nice to haves rather than the essential skills that determine so many matches. Faz is also mentally tougher and embodies the reason why we've been so hard to beat. Ford's got the nicer to watch skills, but we'd miss Faz a lot more.

One will be in Lions match day squad if not the starting XV. The other is scrapping for a place on the plane.

They are nice to haves on a fly-half. You can always hide him in defence or have someone else take the goal kicks, but you can't have him hide from being first receiver. Having the mental skills to identify the best place for the team to attack and the technical skills to execute getting the ball there - they are the essential skills for a fly-half.

And how well the fly-half plays determines a lot of matches.

I don't know who we'd miss more, but if we were without Ford there'd be some very big shoes to fill.

 

[duncanb]

Hard to disagree about Fords chance of being on plane,however this is due to coaches style of Play.
Rather than his abilities v negatives.

 

[martinspoonboy1]

Hard to disagree about Fords chance of being on plane,however this is due to coaches style of Play.
Rather than his abilities v negatives.

Obviously speculative, but whichever of the 6n coaches was in charge I would think that Farrell would be automatically on the plane and ford would be likely to go but not guaranteed.

 

[Which Tyler]

I don't know who we'd miss more, but if we were without Ford there'd be some very big shoes to fill.

Biggest size 6s in the world!

 

[MrFalcon]

Farrell will start at 12 for the lions and arguably stands a good chance of being captain

 

[Lé Ddanno]