[2017 RBS Six Nations] Round 3: England vs Italy (26/02/2017)

[Zed]

Telegraph reported team Marler, Hartley, Cole; Launchbury, Lawes; Itoje, Haskell, Hughes, Care, Farrell, May, Te'o, Daly, Nowell, Brown.

If true shocked Jones has done this, very much unlike him.

I like that back line. Haven't seen much of Te'o but he went well in league and am keen to see more of Daly. God knows how Brown is still in there, has he got some dirt on Eddie Jones?? England need a fullback in the same vein as Christian Cullen, Brown isn't even close. Dependable, but that's it. He runs the ball back like it's his first game in that position. He does finish off reasonably well, just lacks the pace and ability to step at speed to be a top fullback. Perfect game to give Watson, Nowell a run at 15.

n.b haven't seen Brown at club level, only internationals.

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I don't see Teo as anything but a bench player in the foreseeable unless there's a radical change of style (or possibly an occasional horses for courses selection). Farrell is rapidly making himself undroppable (I am very pleased to say, as someone who was wrong about him) and IF (big if) JJ is ever going to be dropped it looks like it'll be for a like for like replacement in Daly.

Not a Farrell fan, but he gets better with each game. His pass to Daley in the Wales game was sublime. But I don't think the Ford/Farrell combination is the right one. Having a big, quick guy at 12, who can step gives your backline a few more options, even using him as a dummy runner. Defenders can afford to hang off someone like Farrell as opposed to Te'o/Tuilagi etc.

 

[martinspoonboy1]

I like that back line. Haven't seen much of Te'o but he went well in league and am keen to see more of Daly. God knows how Brown is still in there, has he got some dirt on Eddie Jones?? England need a fullback in the same vein as Christian Cullen, Brown isn't even close. Dependable, but that's it. He runs the ball back like it's his first game in that position. He does finish off reasonably well, just lacks the pace and ability to step at speed to be a top fullback. Perfect game to give Watson, Nowell a run at 15.

n.b haven't seen Brown at club level, only internationals.

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Not a Farrell fan, but he gets better with each game. His pass to Daley in the Wales game was sublime. But I don't think the Ford/Farrell combination is the right one. Having a big, quick guy at 12, who can step gives your backline a few more options, even using him as a dummy runner. Defenders can afford to hang off someone like Farrell as opposed to Te'o/Tuilagi etc.

I'd go as far as to say Farrell is only second to Barrett right now in terms of best Fly Halfs in the world and is a much better goal kicker. He's the heart of both England and Saracens. You need to watch more Premiership rugby dude!

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'd go as far as to say Farrell is only second to Barrett right now in terms of best Fly Halfs in the world

For a heartbeat I thought you meant Brad, but fortunately the penny dropped pretty quickly!

 

[ncurd]

I'd go as far as to say Farrell is only second to Barrett right now in terms of best Fly Halfs in the world and is a much better goal kicker. He's the heart of both England and Saracens. You need to watch more Premiership rugby dude!

I know that is mainly down to lack of options at 12 but we can't credit him as one of the best fly-halves in the world when he hasn't being playing there intenationally.

But look at all the 'big' games of the past year

Ireland 2016 6 nations - played 65 minuites - Ford stayed on
Wales 2016 6 Nations - Ford was subbed after 63 minuites (19-7) final score 25-21
Aus First test - After much clamour for him to start at fly-hald moved after 28 minuites (mainly due to Burrell being **** but he was hardly playing brilliant)
Aus Second Test - No change
Aus third test - No change
AI SA - Ford was subbed after 70 mins (we scored no points afterwards)
AI Arg - No change
AI Aus - subbed after 66 mins
Wales 2017 6 nations - No change

Look I'm not saying Farrell is bad player (I want him in my starting 15) but this desperate strive to make him play fly-half (and claiming he's the best) when the 10-12 axis with Ford is going so strongly just sparks to me of looking at his club form rather than his international one. Plus no one seams to have any recognition for Ford's role in the past 12 months.

 

[martinspoonboy1]

I know that is mainly down to lack of options at 12 but we can't credit him as one of the best fly-halves in the world when he hasn't being playing there intenationally.

But look at all the 'big' games of the past year

Ireland 2016 6 nations - played 65 minuites - Ford stayed on
Wales 2016 6 Nations - Ford was subbed after 63 minuites (19-7) final score 25-21
Aus First test - After much clamour for him to start at fly-hald moved after 28 minuites (mainly due to Burrell being **** but he was hardly playing brilliant)
Aus Second Test - No change
Aus third test - No change
AI SA - Ford was subbed after 70 mins (we scored no points afterwards)
AI Arg - No change
AI Aus - subbed after 66 mins
Wales 2017 6 nations - No change

Look I'm not saying Farrell is bad player (I want him in my starting 15) but this desperate strive to make him play fly-half (and claiming he's the best) when the 10-12 axis with Ford is going so strongly just sparks to me of looking at his club form rather than his international one. Plus no one seams to have any recognition for Ford's role in the past 12 months.

My point was more in reply to the fact that he didn't rate Farrell. But whether at 10 or 12 success with England and with Sarries over the last year/18 months has been built around Farrell. He's a leader. He's a world class goal kicker. He leads the backs, especially in defence and Sarries and England. He's a winner!

Just for the record, I also think the Ford Farrell axis should stay as it is.

 

[Jakedood]

I know that is mainly down to lack of options at 12 but we can't credit him as one of the best fly-halves in the world when he hasn't being playing there intenationally.

But look at all the 'big' games of the past year

Ireland 2016 6 nations - played 65 minuites - Ford stayed on
Wales 2016 6 Nations - Ford was subbed after 63 minuites (19-7) final score 25-21
Aus First test - After much clamour for him to start at fly-hald moved after 28 minuites (mainly due to Burrell being **** but he was hardly playing brilliant)
Aus Second Test - No change
Aus third test - No change
AI SA - Ford was subbed after 70 mins (we scored no points afterwards)
AI Arg - No change
AI Aus - subbed after 66 mins
Wales 2017 6 nations - No change

Look I'm not saying Farrell is bad player (I want him in my starting 15) but this desperate strive to make him play fly-half (and claiming he's the best) when the 10-12 axis with Ford is going so strongly just sparks to me of looking at his club form rather than his international one. Plus no one seams to have any recognition for Ford's role in the past 12 months.

100%

Looking at George Ford, this guy simply oozes class, with his distribution so damn sharp, people jump on talking about this pass or that from Farrell, but Ford does these week in week out... occasionally under major pressure he can make the odd mistake, but I expect those to be ironed out more and more. Furthermore, he directs a back line that much better than Farrell currently can, give him an option of Te'o at 12, and the strike runners at 13 and out wide, and you'll see something majestic, he unlocks a lot of defenses, but it seems this isnt really getting noticed among the Farrell Hyperbole

 

[Which Tyler]

Look I'm not saying Farrell is bad player (I want him in my starting 15) but this desperate strive to make him play fly-half (and claiming he's the best) when the 10-12 axis with Ford is going so strongly just sparks to me of looking at his club form rather than his international one. Plus no one seams to have any recognition for Ford's role in the past 12 months.

That's not fair - lots of people have pointed out his poor form with the boot; and assumed that meant his poor form all-round

 

[NickBD]

Reports were wrong by a couple of players the official England team Marler, Hartley, Cole; Launchbury, Lawes; Itoje, Haskell, Hughes, Care, Ford, Daly, Farrell, Te'o, May, Brown.

Finishers (I do like how it's now on the official England website): 16. George, 17. Mako, 18. Sinckler, 19. Wood, 20. Clifford, 21. Youngs, 22. Slade, 23. Nowell.;

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Told you T'eo would start on at 13.

Also Ford is the best 10 currently in the world IMHO.

 

[BPM]

Told you T'eo would start on at 13.

Also Ford is the best 10 currently in the world IMHO.

Since he re-signed for Tigers?

In all seriousness, I think Ford is very underrated. I wouldn't go so far as to say he's the best in the world, but I wouldn't take any of the other NH 10s ahead of him (including Sexton). Almost all of our best attacking play goes through him and I think his biggest limitations are the players either side of him (more Youngs than Farrell in fairness).

 

[ncurd]

I'm glad Care has a chance to prove he has some form because Youngs hasn't got any.

 

[Peat]

Yeah, Farrell can't be considered one of the best fly-halves in the world until he's succeeded there at an international level. Which he hasn't. He hasn't had a recent chance to do so either to be fair.

Quite relieved to see Ford kept in the starting line up mind. Seems that Jones rates Joseph not as a winger though.

 

[Scotty]

Need to bring on mako george sink at 50 min and cliff for lawes. Slade for ford and nowel for may at 60. Do what ever combo you want with slade and teo. Teo has earned his start as has care and slade deserves his spot on the bench

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Glad to see Care get a start, but I would've liked to see George start too. Everything seems to be pointing towards farrell being captain sooner rather than later, so give him a shot vs Italy with Hartley on the bench and George starting.

 

[martinspoonboy1]

Glad to see Care get a start, but I would've liked to see George start too. Everything seems to be pointing towards farrell being captain sooner rather than later, so give him a shot vs Italy with Hartley on the bench and George starting.

I think Hartley will stay until England start losing (unfortunately). It's going to be hard for Eddie to drop an unbeaten captain. My guess is he'll be there until atleast next 6N.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Need to bring on mako george sink at 50 min and cliff for lawes. Slade for ford and nowel for may at 60. Do what ever combo you want with slade and teo. Teo has earned his start as has care and slade deserves his spot on the bench

Bring them on at half time if we've a decent grip of the game.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

That's OK. Of the changes, Hask, Care and May have all got realistic chances of starting against Scotland. Teo is an experiment, but a interesting one. Our ball carrying has been under clubbed and this is a definite attempt to look at a solution for an identified problem.

Suspect Hughes might show up better, not just cos its Italy, but he's used to playing with Hask who will do a lot of dirty work enabling him to play looser.

No Watson and he's not in the Barf squad either.

Ref Hartley's captaincy, I can't see it going past the end of this tournament. He's now off the pace and I think we have ready made replacements at both hooker and captain. The AIs, where there's nothing really at stake, would be a better place to start the new regime. But I think Hartley will be due a big vote of thanks for what he's done for this England team, even if its been mainly behind the scenes.

Well done to Fazlet on 50 caps. Fine achievement for the heartbeat of this side.

 

[Which Tyler]

No Watson and he's not in the Barf squad either.

I thought he'd been kept with the squad in case of injury - just like Slade for the last couple

 

[Goodey]

I know that is mainly down to lack of options at 12 but we can't credit him as one of the best fly-halves in the world when he hasn't being playing there intenationally.

But look at all the 'big' games of the past year

Ireland 2016 6 nations - played 65 minuites - Ford stayed on
Wales 2016 6 Nations - Ford was subbed after 63 minuites (19-7) final score 25-21
Aus First test - After much clamour for him to start at fly-hald moved after 28 minuites (mainly due to Burrell being **** but he was hardly playing brilliant)
Aus Second Test - No change
Aus third test - No change
AI SA - Ford was subbed after 70 mins (we scored no points afterwards)
AI Arg - No change
AI Aus - subbed after 66 mins
Wales 2017 6 nations - No change

Look I'm not saying Farrell is bad player (I want him in my starting 15) but this desperate strive to make him play fly-half (and claiming he's the best) when the 10-12 axis with Ford is going so strongly just sparks to me of looking at his club form rather than his international one. Plus no one seams to have any recognition for Ford's role in the past 12 months.

pfft you can prove anything with facts

great post

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Yeah, Farrell can't be considered one of the best fly-halves in the world until he's succeeded there at an international level. Which he hasn't.

Agree with the gist but that's harsh, he had a good run from 2012-14 imo, some ups and downs but was good enough to be in the Lions matchday squad aged 22.

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Also I'm guessing that in that 24 from a couple of days ago, Te'o at 13 with Slade benched may have been plan B. Think it's because Watson isn't fit and so they've put Daly back on the wing.

I refuse to believe that Te'o replacing Joseph at 13, while Daly exists, is a long term idea.

 

[ALJ]

Also I'm guessing that in that 24 from a couple of days ago, Te'o at 13 with Slade benched may have been plan B. Think it's because Watson isn't fit and so they've put Daly back on the wing.

I refuse to believe that Te'o replacing Joseph at 13, while Daly exists, is a long term idea.

Makes a lot of sense.