[2015 Six Nations] Wales vs Ireland (Round 4)

[goodNumber10]

But I know nothing about that stuff......

Agree injections are probably not a good idea, I can understand trying to push yourself through a world cup final or similar but in a game which if you win you have a chance to win a 6 nations championship? I thought the rumours were Wales management were apparently writing off the 6 nations in favour of building the world cup? I didn't believe it when suggested (because the best prep for a world cup is winning a 6 nations for NH teams) but if they're doing this I have no idea what they are trying to accomplish apart from risking an important player 6 months out from world cup.

depends on the injections - injections to play no, but recovery is a bit of a different thing.

 

[Bluemoon]

that's essentially what Reggie Corrigan said on Full Contact the other day, that he's deliberately asking henshaw and payne to concentrate on Defence and simple draw and pass rugby so they bed down and get experience and that he'll develop the attacking side spot 6 Nations.

The thing that people miss, is that the Leinster side were not a flair side under Schmidt, they had a very basic game plan and then they bolted specific early game strike moves onto that that were designed to break a specific team down.

Do we feel that Payne and Henshaw can handle the size of Roberts and JD if they are in possession? I obviously rate them in defence, there is just an obvious mismatch of size?

I hope Wales avoid the aerial battle as I feel Kearney has been a bit of a unsung hero in defence, positioning and counter attack in this tournament so far.

 

[goodNumber10]

Do we feel that Payne and Henshaw can handle the size of Roberts and JD if they are in possession? I obviously rate them in defence, there is just an obvious mismatch of size?

I hope Wales avoid the aerial battle as I feel Kearney has been a bit of a unsung hero in defence, positioning and counter attack in this tournament so far.

yes, easily. Henshaw is a big lad, and Payne is about as solid a defender as you'll find. The welsh midfield will hold no fears for them.

 

[Feicarsinn]

that's essentially what Reggie Corrigan said on Full Contact the other day, that he's deliberately asking henshaw and payne to concentrate on Defence and simple draw and pass rugby so they bed down and get experience and that he'll develop the attacking side spot 6 Nations.

The thing that people miss, is that the Leinster side were not a flair side under Schmidt, they had a very basic game plan and then they bolted specific early game strike moves onto that that were designed to break a specific team down.

Leinster played good rugby and scored lots of tries, but the difference was the strength of that side relative to the opposition. Leinster in that period were essentially an international standard side playing in club competitions. With a good coach that could consistently compete at the highest level and do it playing eye pleasing rugby. Ireland have a pretty average squad for international. Not bad by any means, but by no means of a much higher standard than the sides around them. They can't win the same way that Leinster do.

Schmidt is playing pragmatically. 90% of the time international rugby is won by the team that makes the fewest mistakes. Ireland are good in that regard. We don't drop the ball very much or do as many daft things as we did under Kidney. We also exploit oppositions' mistakes very well. Combine those two things with a high work ethic and you're onto a winner.

 

[ncurd]

depends on the injections - injections to play no, but recovery is a bit of a different thing.

Yes but would he normally have the injections for this injury? Trying to speed up recovery suggests to me a desperate move and if they're desperate what the chances of them playing him if he's not recovered enough doing further damage?

I know there's no such thing as 100% fit and players will carry ****le during tournaments, crunch rugby but I don't think this is the time to do it.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

that's essentially what Reggie Corrigan said on Full Contact the other day, that he's deliberately asking henshaw and payne to concentrate on Defence and simple draw and pass rugby so they bed down and get experience and that he'll develop the attacking side spot 6 Nations.

The thing that people miss, is that the Leinster side were not a flair side under Schmidt, they had a very basic game plan and then they bolted specific early game strike moves onto that that were designed to break a specific team down.

LOL! Negged for saying England scored more tries than Ireland

Aye, it depends on what you call flair. Leinster played some pretty sexy rugby but it wasn't Australia-esque off the cuff stuff it was very accurate and precise. Schmidt has a core game plan and tweaks it to beat sides depending on how they play. The only team who are at a level where scoring tries from anywhere is required to win is New Zealand and we'll see that in late October!

 

[ncurd]

Schmidt is playing pragmatically. 90% of the time international rugby is won by the team that makes the fewest mistakes. Ireland are good in that regard. We don't drop the ball very much or do as many daft things as we did under Kidney. We also exploit oppositions' mistakes very well. Combine those two things with a high work ethic and you're onto a winner.

It's the main reason you beat England (thought not the only one) forced us to make mistake which led to turnovers whilst not conceding them yourself. One of the reasons why the English scrum was completely nullified was because it took I think 55 mins before they even had their first put in. It's really hard to establish superiority in defensive scrums and you generally start doing so once you've done it in your own attacking ones.

 

[Draggs]

Came to the thread to look at peoples thoughts on positions, tactics, potential line ups, predictions etc.

Any chance we can have a separate thread for you guys to argue over who's nations fans are more 'insufferable' or which fans are winding you up.

It's been bad recently. Like Feic said, happens during Six Nations, but it's normally 'drive by' posters who cause issues.

From now on I'm just going to remove anything off topic here.

 

[McTallshort]

Schmidt is playing pragmatically. 90% of the time international rugby is won by the team that makes the fewest mistakes. Ireland are good in that regard. We don't drop the ball very much or do as many daft things as we did under Kidney. We also exploit oppositions' mistakes very well. Combine those two things with a high work ethic and you're onto a winner.

Schmidts playing a style of rugby that wins World cups. Ireland have won 10 on the bounce and if they beat Wales will have beaten all the top sides bar New Zealand at least once in the last 12 months. If they beat Wales I wouldnt beat against them getting to at least the WC final.

 

[munstermuffin]

It's just the 6 nations. It brings all the nutters out.

Any news on Sean? Tommy O'Donnell had a very good game on the weekend, but we're getting pretty light in the back row.

From what I'm hearing he's ok. Was very alert after game and well is expected to pass tests. Only worry was that there was no clear bang on head.
Sexton - there was rumour he went off due to concussion and IRFU said it was hamstring to cover it but you can see clearly he was limping before substitute.

 

[munstermuffin]

Yes but would he normally have the injections for this injury? Trying to speed up recovery suggests to me a desperate move and if they're desperate what the chances of them playing him if he's not recovered enough doing further damage?

I know there's no such thing as 100% fit and players will carry ****le during tournaments, crunch rugby but I don't think this is the time to do it.

Some injections are like relaxers. They basically work on short term ligament and tissue injuries that are short - medium. I believe Warburtons is like a 4-6 week recovery time. So if its ligament the injury will probably not worsen but as you point out all surrounding muscles weaken slightly as they're numbed too so a hit the wrong way could be bad. But I'm sure if there's no big improvement in a week he won't be risked.

 

[munstermuffin]

Do we feel that Payne and Henshaw can handle the size of Roberts and JD if they are in possession? I obviously rate them in defence, there is just an obvious mismatch of size?

I hope Wales avoid the aerial battle as I feel Kearney has been a bit of a unsung hero in defence, positioning and counter attack in this tournament so far.

I'd say they'll be ok as defensively they're both solid and I think Sexton will be on duty too. My worry is out wide. I've no fear of Zebo or Bowe in attack or defending around fringes but if Williams and North get a run the 2 lads do wingers tackles (up high) and against North especially that mightn't work. And well I'm hugely impressed with Williams last few months

 

[Feicarsinn]

Huh, weakening the muscles around a damaged ligament sounds like literally the worst thing you could do in that situation.

 

[munstermuffin]

Huh, weakening the muscles around a damaged ligament sounds like literally the worst thing you could do in that situation.

Sometimes it's ok as it's not that it's weakened just numbed so all very short term as in 24hr effects so if a match is on a Sat at 2 the injection probably given on the Friday at 5ish. It's very well administered bit as I say it only helps if a guy is near enough not if injury is serious enough. Guys tried it before despite damaging ACL or something and learnt the hard (& painful) way

 

[TheSaffycen]

Question for Ireland fans- What happens if Sexton is out for any long period of time during international duty ? A lot of our 'comeback' seemed to conveniently time with his departure. Is Madigan the guy to take over ? Too me he doesn't seem to be able to replicate the game plan that Sexton does, so who is the best guy to take over.

 

[munstermuffin]

Question for Ireland fans- What happens if Sexton is out for any long period of time during international duty ? A lot of our 'comeback' seemed to conveniently time with his departure. Is Madigan the guy to take over ? Too me he doesn't seem to be able to replicate the game plan that Sexton does, so who is the best guy to take over.

I think Keatley would start and Madigan on after 55-60 as was case vs Italy. Simply as he's better kicker from hand in play BUT he's a poorer place kicker. If you talk about RWC is think Paddy Jackson is back in mix. And Madigan is possibly best placed IF he gets consistent time at 10 without being shifted around

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

I don't think Madigan has all the attributes yet to be the backup 10. I find him better at 12 - at 10 he has so much more control and he just can't get the backline going.

Although most people don't rate him I still think Jackson is the most complete / all rounded player out of him, Madigan and Keatley. He can be a bit wobbly at times but has matured massively the last season or two. He's definitely not an impact player but considering we usually build leads he might be a better option to see out a game?
Then someone like him or Olding on the bench who can cover 10 and is a bit more likely to open the game up if needed.

 

[munstermuffin]

I don't think Madigan has all the attributes yet to be the backup 10. I find him better at 12 - at 10 he has so much more control and he just can't get the backline going.

Although most people don't rate him I still think Jackson is the most complete / all rounded player out of him, Madigan and Keatley. He can be a bit wobbly at times but has matured massively the last season or two. He's definitely not an impact player but considering we usually build leads he might be a better option to see out a game?
Then someone like him or Olding on the bench who can cover 10 and is a bit more likely to open the game up if needed.

Agreed. Jackson is best on form and had the yips but is getting back on form. But as you point out it depends on game regards backup. Madigan is guy if we chasing game or need injection of pace.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Gareth Steenson, surely?

 

[lucky number 7]

Schmidts playing a style of rugby that wins World cups. Ireland have won 10 on the bounce and if they beat Wales will have beaten all the top sides bar New Zealand at least once in the last 12 months. If they beat Wales I wouldnt beat against them getting to at least the WC final.

This post aroused me.

WC Final....****ing hell imagine that.