[2015 Six Nations] Ireland vs England (Round 3)

[TRF_Olyy]

The media regarding this game has been strangely quiet

None of the Wales coaches are involved so there's been no poo-slinging from either camp

 

[Peat]

I don't think anyone has ignored the fact that Watson has made mistakes, pretty much everyone flagged up the fact he fell off the tackle for the first Italy try in the England vs Italy thread. But i'm not sure pointing out that May did the exact same thing is really a great example of his defensive solidity.

stats are fine for a baseline but you have to look at the context those stats are collected under. Watson moved to 15 after 10 minutes(?), so a better comparison would be JJ's stats. how do they shape up?

And how many people flagged off that he also fell off a tackle for the second?

May has underwhelmed so far this tournament and made some very visible mistakes. His decision making in defending a short blind in particular has looked dodgy (as compared to his notably excellent decision making in defending the space as the open wing last Autumn). But other players have made some pretty big mistakes without the same level of criticism from the forum. I don't point that out to say "Look how good May actually is" but to say "Look how blinkered you're being". People are looking for May's faults and downplaying his good work while doing the opposite for other players, such as Watson.

I wouldn't have said anything, as I've had this argument and no one's about to change their mind, but LN7 pricked my guilty mind. May deserves more credit and faith than he's been given. And I'll say this over and over - England are going nowhere by constant chopping and changing, and dropping new talent when it doesn't immediately and consistently excel.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

And how many people flagged off that he also fell off a tackle for the second?

Meh, coming from where he was, and bearing in mind the dog-leg was not of his creation, I think he did exceptionally well to make any sort of tackle at all. Such was the distance he had to make up on that, he had to lunge and grab at the same time. He put the guy down, but a proper holding tackle would have been a bridge too far.

I don't see how it's comparable to what for May has been some poor defensive decision making, e.g for Faletaus try, and physical inadequacy in the way he tried to tackle for Italys third try, which for me are far more fundamental errors for a rugby player.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

May is strong in defense when there is an overlap in that he backpeddles and lets the drift get involved rather than commit and allow and almost certain try. When it comes to fronting up physically though, he is shown wanting. The Italian 13 should not have got around May for that try at all, no excuses he simply ****ed it up. Add to that messing up the try earlier, that is a 10 point swing from his errors. In 2 games he has been caught out on the wing twice leading to 2 tries against us. That is not good.

I don't think May should be excluded forever from England but I think he needs to sort himself out a bit and come back after some good form at Glos.

 

[goodNumber10]

And how many people flagged off that he also fell off a tackle for the second?

May has underwhelmed so far this tournament and made some very visible mistakes. His decision making in defending a short blind in particular has looked dodgy (as compared to his notably excellent decision making in defending the space as the open wing last Autumn). But other players have made some pretty big mistakes without the same level of criticism from the forum. I don't point that out to say "Look how good May actually is" but to say "Look how blinkered you're being". People are looking for May's faults and downplaying his good work while doing the opposite for other players, such as Watson.

I wouldn't have said anything, as I've had this argument and no one's about to change their mind, but LN7 pricked my guilty mind. May deserves more credit and faith than he's been given. And I'll say this over and over - England are going nowhere by constant chopping and changing, and dropping new talent when it doesn't immediately and consistently excel.

that's a fair comment, but what positives has he brought? I'm honestly struggling to think of anything other than:

In a 13 cap return he's produced: NZ Try (break), his two trys against Samoa (one was self crated to be fair), Cip's Try, a decent chase in one of the NZ summer test matches (can't recall which one), am i missing anything else?

Defensively he's cost us try's, in attack he's left scoring opportunities out there (Ireland last year anyone?) and yes whilst Watson hs made mistakes, he's only on his fourth start and already having a much bigger impact on the game than May.

The forum was screaming and moaning about other players being held onto for too long when their form doesn't warrant it, Farrell, Wood & Care all spring to mind, he's not in good form so why not go for a player who is really tearing it up?

Why not go for Matt Banaham?

 

[thechosenfamily]

None of the Wales coaches are involved so there's been no poo-slinging from either camp

Sorry couldn't resist :run:

 

[Every Time Ref]

Meh, coming from where he was, and bearing in mind the dog-leg was not of his creation, I think he did exceptionally well to make any sort of tackle at all. Such was the distance he had to make up on that, he had to lunge and grab at the same time. He put the guy down, but a proper holding tackle would have been a bridge too far.

Agree up to a point, but I wonder if his positioning might have been better? I feel Brown would have been in a better position to make that tackle in the first place. However, as I said before, I do think he needs to be cut some slack for playing out of position - I know he's a fullback, but in terms of where he'd been training all week.

Why not go for Matt Banaham?

Oh, you tease!

 

[Patchey]

11. Banahan, 14. Ashton, 15. Monye.

That would work for me.

 

[Every Time Ref]

And Farrell-Hape-Noon in the midfield

 

[ncurd]

Why not go for Matt Banaham?

Interesting you say that

16 caps but only 9 starts compared to May's 13 caps/starts with one more try than May. Arguebly with 4 less starts and only 3 more games he's had less game time to prove himself than May has......

Nobody is realistically suggesting Banahan's up to international rugby are they?


Just think the comparison between the two players is interesting.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I really think we've missed HMS now you mention it.

11. Banahan, 14. Ashton, 15. Monye.

That would work for me.

Wait....are you dissing Ugo "I can run in straight lines faster than you can" Monye?

 

[goodNumber10]

Interesting you say that

16 caps but only 9 starts compared to May's 13 caps/starts with one more try than May. Arguebly with 4 less starts and only 3 more games he's had less game time to prove himself than May has......

Nobody is realistically suggesting Banahan's up to international rugby are they?


Just think the comparison between the two players is interesting.

Sorry, forum joke.

A bit like Dave Seymour being a promising young player...

 

[Patchey]

Ncurd got done!

I really think we've missed HMS now you mention it.





Wait....are you dissing Ugo "I can run in straight lines faster than you can" Monye?

I LOVE Ugo, but remember his game at 15?

Sorry, forum joke.

A bit like Dave Seymour being a promising young player...

Or you being Andy Farre... Oh wait that one was true?

 

[ncurd]

Sorry, forum joke.

A bit like Dave Seymour being a promising young player...

The problem is the forum is hard to convey my general level of sarcasm (which is extremely high)....


I didn't think anyone was suggesting Banahan should be playing...just thought to point out his are actually quite close to May's, if May should be given more chances why not Matt

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Mehh... So with Goode looking set to start, for me it really just goes to show that when it comes to the matter of dodgy selections, despite the very positive inclusion of form players like Watson and Nowell, Kruis and Brookes, we're really far from out of the woods. Its highly disappointing and i really think that, given Kearneys ability under the high ball, Ireland really have the advantage now.

 

[B10]

I don't think theres much choice other than Goode. Watson wasn't convincing at FB v Italy and Goode's kicking is good. I think one of Goode's best games for Eng was away to Ireland 2 years ago. Not that I'm a big fan but can see why he will play on Sunday. I just hope Brown comes straight back in for the last 2 games.

 

[bw245]

Mehh... So with Goode looking set to start, for me it really just goes to show that when it comes to the matter of dodgy selections, despite the very positive inclusion of form players like Watson and Nowell, Kruis and Brookes, we're really far from out of the woods. Its highly disappointing and i really think that, given Kearneys ability under the high ball, Ireland really have the advantage now.

Yeah, have to admit that Goode starting isn't looking too promising. Having said that, the fact that we've called up Billy Holland isn't too promising either.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I don't think theres much choice other than Goode. Watson wasn't convincing at FB v Italy and Goode's kicking is good. I think one of Goode's best games for Eng was away to Ireland 2 years ago. Not that I'm a big fan but can see why he will play on Sunday. I just hope Brown comes straight back in for the last 2 games.

Pennell?

Yeah, have to admit that Goode starting isn't looking too promising. Having said that, the fact that we've called up Billy Holland isn't too promising either.

Ha, you guys have the luxury of calling up Billy Holland and knowing he won't make it anywhere near the pitch though!

 

[bw245]

Pennell?



Ha, you guys have the luxury of calling up Billy Holland and knowing he won't make it anywhere near the pitch though!

Think England know Ireland have the edge in the backs, so will be relying on their forwards big time.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I think Goode is probably the best short-term solution, however a bit of me wishes Lancaster had shown some faith in Watson as a potential future world class full back