[2015 RWC] Pool A: England vs. Wales (26/09/2015)

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Is this actually a problem?

And given how much the game opens up towards the end, I think it stands to reason that subs have it easier.

It's a problem insofar as it gives the coaches reason to keep changing their mind and doesn't allow us to nail down what our preferred team would be. It's bad for partnerships and continuity.

It's been a particular problem in the following positions:

Inside centre (Twelvetrees/Barritt/Eastmond/Burrell)
Lock ( Lawes / Launchbury / parling)
Number 8 (Morgan or Vunipola)
Blindside flanker (Haskell or Wood)
Scrum half (Youngs or Care)
Fly half (Ford or Farrell)

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[Ospreylian]

He was easily their best back in the Uruguay game getting a hat-trick before his injury. His form relative to other backline players was immense, can't say for certain as other players were being rested but he'll probably be missed.

Being the best back in a game against a team of mostly amateurs (no disrespect to Uruguay) is not enough to believe he stood a chance of being considered for England. In my eyes the two best backs were Davies and Scott Williams, the latter of which had a hand in creating a few of the tries and had a solid all round game, bar a few knock ons and silly errors. But overall the game wasn't one for the backs. Priestland and Cuthbert did nothing right, as usual, and Amos had a decent game but forced things a little too much.

I'm not sure if Allen is actually that much better than Tyler Morgan anyway. Yes he scored 3 tries, but they were pretty much gifted to him. He has a lot of potential, but at international level in the bigger games he seems to crumble a bit under the pressure.

 

[ncurd]

Being the best back in a game against a team of mostly amateurs (no disrespect to Uruguay) is not enough to believe he stood a chance of being considered for England. In my eyes the two best backs were Davies and Scott Williams, the latter of which had a hand in creating a few of the tries and had a solid all round game, bar a few knock ons and silly errors. But overall the game wasn't one for the backs. Priestland and Cuthbert did nothing right, as usual, and Amos had a decent game but forced things a little too much.

I'm not sure if Allen is actually that much better than Tyler Morgan anyway. Yes he scored 3 tries, but they were pretty much gifted to him. He has a lot of potential, but at international level in the bigger games he seems to crumble a bit under the pressure.

Fair enough I've resoundly kicked on this one, I'll bow down to Welsh fans having superior knowledge on their team.

 

[Peat]

It's a problem insofar as it gives the coaches reason to keep changing their mind and doesn't allow us to nail down what our preferred team would be. It's bad for partnerships and continuity.

It's been a particular problem in the following positions:

Inside centre (Twelvetrees/Barritt/Eastmond/Burrell)
Lock ( Lawes / Launchbury / parling)
Number 8 (Morgan or Vunipola)
Blindside flanker (Haskell or Wood)
Scrum half (Youngs or Care)
Fly half (Ford or Farrell)

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I would argue that the problem exists with the coaches there rather than the players. It's up to them to work out what skillsets they need at what point and be strong on that.

 

[TommiG88]

Very nervous again, I'm not confident but I wasn't for the Fiji game.

Not predicting a result, all I know I'm watching the game with a few welsh people.

 

[msf]

I don´t think either team is in great shape, but the injuries and the fact that they have won the last two games should give England the psychological edge.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd genuinely bring Kruis in - he's about the only forward we've got, since dumping Attwood, who relishes tight play.
Lawes has been completely ineffective the last few games - I'd have Launch and Parling start with Kruis bench.
Would also drop Youngs to the bench (at least) - scrum and lineout are massive worries, and oppositions are targetting him in the scrum and doing well.
Shame George hasnt gotten more time as I've no faith in Webber either.
Would start Farrell, flip a coin between Youngs and Wigglesworth.

 

[Willodell100]

I'd genuinely bring Kruis in - he's about the only forward we've got, since dumping Attwood, who relishes tight play.
Lawes has been completely ineffective the last few games - I'd have Launch and Parling start with Kruis bench.
Would also drop Youngs to the bench (at least) - scrum and lineout are massive worries, and oppositions are targetting him in the scrum and doing well.
Shame George hasnt gotten more time as I've no faith in Webber either.
Would start Farrell, flip a coin between Youngs and Wigglesworth.

I understand the frustration that we weren't at our best against Fiji but why would you bring back Farrell?

Ford controlled the game very well v Fiji. His kicking out of hand and restarts were excellent. His attacking threat is always going to trump Farrells.

Farrell had one good offload for Browns try. He also nearly fluffed Billy's final try by panicking at the breakdown. It was only May's quick feet gather kept the momentum going. His appeal is his goal kicking percentage and defensive capabilities. But Ford percentage is still high on the place kicking front and was defensively good enough v Fiji. For me it would be a psychological big step back for the team if we started with Owen Farrell.

Even if we had lost the Fiji game SL shouldn't make too many changes but we won!

I agree Ben Youngs has a bad game but his brother had a pretty good one from where I was sitting. He hit all but one of his jumpers in the lineout and his carrying was arguably the best of the forwards. Yes his scrummaging isn't the best but he can't take the flack for the whole srummage. It was a lightweight pack that is the real issue. We Need a bit more bulk there which, I agree, Launchbury would add.

 

[Peat]

I'd genuinely bring Kruis in - he's about the only forward we've got, since dumping Attwood, who relishes tight play.
Lawes has been completely ineffective the last few games - I'd have Launch and Parling start with Kruis bench.
Would also drop Youngs to the bench (at least) - scrum and lineout are massive worries, and oppositions are targetting him in the scrum and doing well.
Shame George hasnt gotten more time as I've no faith in Webber either.
Would start Farrell, flip a coin between Youngs and Wigglesworth.

We've lost one lineout in the last two games. Is that actually a massive worry?

 

[Willodell100]

We've lost one lineout in the last two games. Is that actually a massive worry?

No! The media are to blame for some believing he's been poor.

I think it is no coincidence that having Parling run the lineout has helped Youngs in this department but he has been almost flawless in this department of the game.

His scrummaging could do some work but his carrying ability and speed around the park is a real bonus.

You could argue that his lineout work will only improve the more he starts. Because let's be honest it's hard to come straight on (as a sub) and hit your mark every time which he clearly struggled with while Hartley had the shirt. From memory at Leicester his % is pretty high. Anyone care to help on this stat?

 

[j'nuh]

We've lost one lineout in the last two games. Is that actually a massive worry?

A bit worrying that we've been forced into playing Lawes, Parling and Wood just to get the lineout right. International hookers shouldn't really need the comforts of a club player just to get the lineout right. If playing George gives us more freedom in selection elsewhere, also beefing up the scrum, and arguably not even losing out in the loose given how well George did there in the warm-ups, then it's a fairly easy decision for me.

Lawes isn't setting the world alight, so I guess it isn't too much of a problem to drop him for Launchbury and keep Parling. And Haskell isn't really an improvement on Wood anyway, so I guess we can keep Wood. But it shouldn't be that our lineout is dependent on one player.

 

[ncurd]

George has two caps as a sub and we want to throw him into his first international start against Wales in pivotal RWC game?

Sorry has to be Youngs

 

[RedCard]

If Wales get through the week without having to call up further replacements and have the current other injury concerns available I will be happy enough. We have no pressure on us really and we are back where we are comfortable...... clear underdogs. The starting team and bench will be very strong assuming the above. Against Ireland they looked a strong outfit with the main players in. They are capable of a close win and wouldn't be surprised. That's looking at it from a Welsh perspective. If I look at it from an English one I do think they should take the win and possibly with a comfortable margin. Get their game right at home with their dangerous back 3 and they could do some damage. AWJ being at his best for Wales could keep them in this game for me. There hasn't been much news on his recent injury and if he is struggling it will be too much to overcome.

 

[j'nuh]

Crap scrummaging trumps inexperience in something you don't want in a player going into a pivotal WC game IMO.

 

[ncurd]

Crap scrummaging trumps inexperience in something you don't want in a player going into a pivotal WC game IMO.

Personally I think the scrummaging issues are more down to Marler/Cole when was the last time a scrum behaved poor because of the hooker?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I agree, Marler and Cole have not been good in the scrums. Marler angles in pretty much every scrum and as soon as they notice that, we are going to get repeatedly pinged on his side. I don't know what they did to our scrum but it is misfiring really badly.

Personally I think Wales will target the breakdown REALLY hard. We have got to be one of the worst Tier 1 teams at the breakdown, both our own and attempting to compete. It is made worse by our Scrumhalves inability to run to a ruck and immediately take the ball out and either run or pop it to a forward, they always stop, look around, count to 3 then do something with it. It doesn't matter if you don't defend your ball that well if the Scrumhalf can get it out fast but ours don't so we need proper defence. The same in the scrum, we seem incapable of getting the ball out the back fast like the Japanese so if we are losing in the scrum, it's penalty time.

I really get the impression that Lancaster and/or Rowntree do not have enough respect for the breakdown, it seems like an area that has been largely neglected both in player selection and in proper training in favour of other areas. The problem is those areas aren't exactly dominant either. Infact how long has it been since teams feared England at the breakdown?

 

[TheSaffycen]

1.Vunipola
2.Youngs
3.Cole
4.Launchbury
5.Parling
6.Wood
7.Robshaw
8.Morgan
9.Youngs
10.Ford
11.May
12.Barritt
13.Joseph
14.Watson
15.Brown
16.George
17.Marler
18.Wilson
19.Lawes
20.Vunipola
21.Care
22.Farrell
23.Nowell
Only 2 changes to the XV as Vunipola and Launchbury help on the floor and carrying. Wood and Parling are great for the lineout, I would like Haskell but we need lineout assurances with Youngs IMO. The bench has a very strong scrummaging front row, when Wales make their front row changes we can use ours to really ruin their scrum. Care adds more speed and running ability and I think he will have a big game if he gets off the bench, he played well against Wales in 2013. Nowell adds powerful running and some versatility.

 

[ncurd]

I really get the impression that Lancaster and/or Rowntree do not have enough respect for the breakdown, it seems like an area that has been largely neglected both in player selection and in proper training in favour of other areas. The problem is those areas aren't exactly dominant either. Infact how long has it been since teams feared England at the breakdown?

Have we ever been feared? Big dominant forwards play yeah but can't really remember us causing turnover's for a laugh.

Sometimes I wonder if we just rely on ref to step in and officiate it properly when they do we seam to be fine.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

We might be winning our throws now but they're still really poor.
Lineout ball being desperately clawed onto our side, no one, isn't exactly the best to launch play off of.
I'm not saying start George, more bemoaning that we didn't blood him earlier.

 

[The Jones Boy]

I genuinely can't pick this as the Welsh are going to be so up for this, it's too close to call... the only major difference I can see between the sides is English home advantage, and that may well be enough to tip the scales.