[2014 TRC] New Zealand v Australia in Auckland (23/08/2014)

[TRF Mr Fish]

Anyways.... I don't expect too many changes for the AB's. If Kaino is out injured Messam will obviously come into the starting lineup (and do a good job IMO). Personally I would start Ben Franks and LH prop, but the selectors do like Crockett for some reason. Honestly I wouldn't be too fazed if Nonu was out injured. It would be interesting to see what the do if he is out though. Fekitoa is probably the next in line but has very little experience at 12. Crotty has a lot more experience in the position and is a much 'safer' option, but a Crotty/Smith midfield would perhaps lack powerful running option....

What I found quite interesting was that Ben came on for Crockett on the loose head side, but once Moody joined the match Ben switched to the tight head side.

 

[Darwin]

What I found quite interesting was that Ben came on for Crockett on the loose head side, but once Moody joined the match Ben switched to the tight head side.

I don't think they really wanted to use Moody unless they had to. He has played very little rugby at all this season, only just got called into the squad, and was on debut (because Faumuina was ruled out with injury). For some reason the do seem to favour Ben Franks on the TH side, but he is still clearly seen as a LH option...

 

[Icemn]

im worried about hooker... we only have Dane Coles, kevin is done... if Coles is injured, we screwed...

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Just re-watched the game and looks like Kaino and Nonu are definitely out of next week's game and maybe longer. Nonu did not look good the way he was holding his arm and the ice pack on his shoulder (looks like a stinger injury) and the lead up to Kaino going down looked innocuous; his left elbow was already heavily strapped and then pulled up after stretching with his left arm to pull back a Wallaby player, only to collapse to the turf clutching his left elbow in agony, which suggests he's just aggravated a previous injury. His facial expression on the bench gave away that he was in a lot of discomfort. But ABs have a lot of options at 6, but not so at 12 with Nonu, Carter injured and SBW still not back. Can Fekitoa play the battering ram role? Well, I don't see why not (similar to Jamie Roberts, who was originally a 13). Him and Conrad Smith look more complimentary than Crotty and Smith.

I wonder if Hansen will favour starting Ben Franks at loose-head prop rather than Crockett, who just seems like a yellow card waiting to happen and penalty magnet in the loose and in the scrum. Woodcock looks like a big miss already.

Agree that Dane Coles seems vital now for the ABs, now that Mealamu looks pretty spent at international level: his throwing in at the line out was laughable.
I did not understand Hansen subbing Coles after only 50 minutes. Was it entirely necessary? Below that the depth at hooker looks pretty bad and Hansen clearly does not trust the likes of Harris or Coltman to even be in the 31, let alone in the 23.

As for the Wallabies, there's no doubt they've improved since that 3rd test v the Lions last summer and i still think they are in pole position, with England to qualify from Pool A, as long as they keep this trajectory of improvement up.

 

[Big Ewis]

NZ going to look to stuff the Wallabies badly in this one. A draw for them is like punishment from the gods. They'll be at home, and warmed up.
The attack will be more fluid, scores will be tried and tries will be scored, defense is always there for them and they have the best transition/emergency defense in the world in their repositioning and pace. Wallabies to put a handful of points on the scoreboard, but come up short. I see this potentially getting ugly also, but right now I'm going to guess AB by 12.
Wallabies are going to make some changes for this one surely, Beale, Foley, maybe White/Phipps...maybe start Skelton this time ?

 

[TheSaffycen]

I would play Skelton, with Kaino gone the aussies could try and be the more physical forward pack. Players like McCalman, Hodgson could be really effective.
I would play 1.Slipper 2.Polota-Nau(If fit) 3.Kepu 4.Carter 5.Skelton 6.McCalman 7.Hooper 8.Palu/Hodgson with McCalman at 8 9.Phipps 10.Foley 11.Horne 12.Toomua 13.AAC 14.Speight(is he available) 15.Folau
The All Blacks are quite simple, Messam/Todd or even Vito in at 6 so no real problems there. At 12 they may have problems, but they could try Slade/Barrett. But out of Crotty and Fekitoa i think you have to go for Crotty, the whole Kiwi gameplan is precise passing and being able too draw players and give the pass. Fekitoa doesn't let the ball go enough for me, and how is he at defending at 12 ? I feel he is like Tuilagi that he has the potential to be good there but now is not the time too try it out.

 

[Jaguares]

1. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Simmons
5. Carter
6. Pocock (dual fetcher model has its risks, but breakdown domination would be worth it)
7. Hooper
8. Palu
9. Genia (has been better in the wallabies set-up and under Link generally)
10. Cooper
11. Ione
12. Toomua
13. AAC
14. Speight
15. Folau

OMG!!! With that team Australia is a serious candidate for the next World Cup The downside is that the line-out with less choices will be more predictable but Pocock-Hooper playing together would be dynamite!

Digby Ioane returns from France? Mmmm... Don't forget JOC too, and Kurtley Beale is one of the best impact players in the world. He can play at 12, 15 and even at wing.

 

[Thingimubob]

1. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Simmons
5. Carter
6. Pocock (dual fetcher model has its risks, but breakdown domination would be worth it)
7. Hooper
8. Palu
9. Genia (has been better in the wallabies set-up and under Link generally)
10. Cooper
11. Ione
12. Toomua
13. AAC
14. Speight
15. Folau

I quite like a dual fetcher system too, and Hooper and Pocock together is actually a slightly terrifying prospect if it works... All about getting the balance of having the grunt work of the 6 spread out properly, otherwise it can be very risky.

Wales have had a few very successful cracks at fielding two world class 7's side by side, (30 - 3 vs England and the Autumn walkover vs Argentina being the only starts together I think) so Warburton + Tipuric vs Pocock + Hooper is certainly a WC possibility! Potentially hell of a battle there!

 

[RoosTah]

OMG!!! With that team Australia is a serious candidate for the next World Cup The downside is that the line-out with less choices will be more predictable but Pocock-Hooper playing together would be dynamite!

Digby Ioane returns from France? Mmmm... Don't forget JOC too, and Kurtley Beale is one of the best impact players in the world. He can play at 12, 15 and even at wing.

Ione is better than JOC as a winger. He just is such a powerful runner and really intimidates defenders. Not sure if he's coming back, but I read that he was keen to.

I'm not sure if I'd play Beale on the wing... if anything I'd be inclined to put him at 12 instead of Toomua (who after watching the Bledisloe again I think was pretty poor).

 

[nzlizard]

Ione is better than JOC as a winger. He just is such a powerful runner and really intimidates defenders. Not sure if he's coming back, but I read that he was keen to.

Yeah always remember being afraid when Ione played as he could be so devastating.

 

[squirrel]

ioane is getting on a bit now, must be 30 surely

 

[Darwin]

Slightly off topic, but according to my calculations Digby Ioane would technically be able to exploit the new loophole in the IRB laws and switch allegiances and play for the AB's at the next Rugby World Cup. This of course will almost certainly not happen, but it is ludicrous to think that it is a possibility....

Anyways.... The long range weather forecast for Auckland is looking promising at this stage, so hopefully we get to see some running rugby this weekend!

 

[RoosTah]

Slightly off topic, but according to my calculations Digby Ioane would technically be able to exploit the new loophole in the IRB laws and switch allegiances and play for the AB's at the next Rugby World Cup. This of course will almost certainly not happen, but it is ludicrous to think that it is a possibility....

Anyways.... The long range weather forecast for Auckland is looking promising at this stage, so hopefully we get to see some running rugby this weekend!

What about Samoa?

 

[FlukeArtist]

I dont think I would drop Jane YET either but his number does look to be nearly up imo. With the amount of class winger/fullbacks we have I suspect the AB's are carrying alot of players in many positions who need a wake up call. Jane showed enough in the last game of the England series to convince me he's still got it though.

Mealamu, Owen Franks, Cruden would be my main concerns I would be bringing Ellis, Flynn, Slade and Todd into atleast bench positions. Barrett is not having the same bumper year as previously either. Id be looking at Slade again as back up flyhalf but Barrett is certainly worth a look in another couple of championship games so I wouldnt knee jerk and swap to many starting players ATM. In a few more games it will be pretty clear. End of the day NZ rugby isnt structured in a way where they can drop more than a couple of players due to contracting etc etc.

I still feel Franks is going unnoticed alot and is looking pretty lazy like Dagg imo. The issue with him is I feel Hansen has pretty much got himself in the situation where the backups arent really up to par either in particular against SA.

While we are at it, I reckon they should at least bring in Osbourne, Bleyendall, The rest of the Whitelocks, Heinz and Taufua too.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

ioane is getting on a bit now, must be 30 surely

29.
Not exactly ancient: 2 years younger than Cory Jane, 1 than Hosea Gear.

 

[Jaguares]

Wallabies team named:

1. James Slipper (vc - Queensland Reds)
2. Nathan Charles (Western Force)
3. Sekope Kepu (NSW Waratahs)
4. Sam Carter (ACT Brumbies)
5. Rob Simmons (Queensland Reds)
6. Scott Fardy (ACT Brumbies)
7. Michael Hooper (c - NSW Waratahs)
8. Wycliff Palu (NSW Waratahs)
9. Nic White (ACT Brumbies)
10. Kurtley Beale (NSW Waratahs)
11. Rob Horne (NSW Waratahs)
12. Matt Toomua (ACT Brumbies)
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper (vc - NSW Waratahs)
14. Pat McCabe (ACT Brumbies)
15. Israel Folau (NSW Waratahs)

Reserves:

16. James Hanson (Queensland Reds)
17. Pek Cowan (Western Force)
18. Ben Alexander (ACT Brumbies)
19. Will Skelton (NSW Waratahs)
20. Scott Higginbotham (Melbourne Rebels)
21. Nick Phipps (NSW Waratahs)
22. Bernard Foley (NSW Waratahs)
23. Tevita Kuridrani (ACT Brumbies)
24th man - Ben McCalman (Western Force)

 

[austingtir]

While we are at it, I reckon they should at least bring in Osbourne, Bleyendall, The rest of the Whitelocks, Heinz and Taufua too.

Osbourne is the only one I can see any point in.

I do think Flynn should be somewhere in the mix. To me we need atleast one experienced guy if Mealamu was to go down. Flynn to me is in the form of his career for the saders.
He is by far the best and most experienced option available.

Otherwise Hansen needs to convince Hore to come out of retirement for next season. Maybe that was the plan all along... it just seems weird that nobody else is putting their hand up.

 

[squirrel]

29.
Not exactly ancient: 2 years younger than Cory Jane, 1 than Hosea Gear.

I don't think Digby is the type of player that ages well, he has quite a limited skillset so once that explosive acceleration goes he has nothing else to make him stand out

 

[Darwin]

Osbourne is the only one I can see any point in.

I do think Flynn should be somewhere in the mix. To me we need atleast one experienced guy if Mealamu was to go down. Flynn to me is in the form of his career for the saders.
He is by far the best and most experienced option available.

Otherwise Hansen needs to convince Hore to come out of retirement for next season. Maybe that was the plan all along... it just seems weird that nobody else is putting their hand up.

While I do agree it would be good to have Flynn involved it is not going to happen. Flynn signed a 2 year contract for Toulouse in May, and I assume is no longer even in the country. Hooker is obviously a major area of concern. The likes of Coltman, Funnell, Marshall, and Harris have potential but are some distance away from being ready for test rugby. Perhaps the AB's best option would be to go for a more stop-gap measure - the likes of James Parsons or Ged Robinson. Neither are going to be long term options, but would do a reliable job if required. I'm hoping for big seasons from both Ash Dixon and particularly Quentin MacDonald next year. They should be starting to come into their primes as front rowers (they are 25/26), and I think they could be potentially better options at this stage than the younger candidates.

What about Samoa?

Ioane could transfer his allegiance to Samoa if he has a Samoan passport (I'm not sure whether he does?). I think Ioane switching to Samoa would be far more likely than him switching to NZ, I was just pointing out how ludicrous this new loophole is...

 

[Patchey]

Wallabies team named:

1. James Slipper (vc - Queensland Reds)
2. Nathan Charles (Western Force)
3. Sekope Kepu (NSW Waratahs)
4. Sam Carter (ACT Brumbies)
5. Rob Simmons (Queensland Reds)
6. Scott Fardy (ACT Brumbies)
7. Michael Hooper (c - NSW Waratahs)
8. Wycliff Palu (NSW Waratahs)
9. Nic White (ACT Brumbies)
10. Kurtley Beale (NSW Waratahs)
11. Rob Horne (NSW Waratahs)
12. Matt Toomua (ACT Brumbies)
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper (vc - NSW Waratahs)
14. Pat McCabe (ACT Brumbies)
15. Israel Folau (NSW Waratahs)

Reserves:

16. James Hanson (Queensland Reds)
17. Pek Cowan (Western Force)
18. Ben Alexander (ACT Brumbies)
19. Will Skelton (NSW Waratahs)
20. Scott Higginbotham (Melbourne Rebels)
21. Nick Phipps (NSW Waratahs)
22. Bernard Foley (NSW Waratahs)
23. Tevita Kuridrani (ACT Brumbies)
24th man - Ben McCalman (Western Force)

Is there something about the Australian coach's job that turns good coaches bad or at least makes them lose their comon sense? How White and Beale are still starting (and why there are still centres on the wing) baffles me.

Are there any Australians here who think Beale should actually start at 10?