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[2014 TRC] New Zealand v Australia in Auckland (23/08/2014)

I agree with the man above me. Austingir you're the most one eyed supporter there is, it's borderline embarrassing. I don't like slagging people off on the internet as it's pointless but can you please have a think before you post anymore rubbish?

Im actually surprised you haven't bagged Aaron a smith for having a shocker and how much better we would be without him.
 
I agree with the man above me. Austingir you're the most one eyed supporter there is, it's borderline embarrassing. I don't like slagging people off on the internet as it's pointless but can you please have a think before you post anymore rubbish?

Im actually surprised you haven't bagged Aaron a smith for having a shocker and how much better we would be without him.

Oh yeah, Aarons defence is ****house. Thanks for reminding me about that it needed to be said. ; )
 
I agree with the man above me. Austingir you're the most one eyed supporter there is, it's borderline embarrassing. I don't like slagging people off on the internet as it's pointless but can you please have a think before you post anymore rubbish?

Im actually surprised you haven't bagged Aaron a smith for having a shocker and how much better we would be without him.

borderline ? geez, you're a nice fellow !!
 
borderline ? geez, you're a nice fellow !!

Hahaha yes it seems unanimous.

Gotta admit I was still feeling a bit ordinary today about the game, but the Roosters cheered me back up by midday though with their 6 try demolition of the Warriors :D
 
Austingtir reminds me of Michael Hooper in that he's got balls the size of dinner plates, plus he takes it on the chin like a man and doesn't resort to petty name calling like another member I can think of.
 
The Rugby Championship: The most predictable tournament in the world.

All Blacks played 14 games

Won games: 13

Drawn games: 1

Lost games: 0

Boooooooooooooooring

And if the All Blacks had been playing in the 6N, how many do you think they would have lost? Argentina haven't won a game in the 4N, but I guarantee they would win games in the 6N, particularly at home, at full strength.
I stand by my point; the reason the 6N may appear more of an exciting competition to some has nothing to do with the quality of the footy played, simply that a number of the teams are much of a muchness, and this leads to closer games and a closer competition. I live in the UK, with free to air coverage of most of the games, and have quite often turned off or gone for a walk by half-time! Maybe I've been spoiled by watching the likes of NZ playing SA or Aus.
Three of the teams that play in the 6N have never beaten the AB's, and another one hasn't beaten them for 61 years. The AB's winning percentage against the other two is higher than their overall winning percentage.
In soccer, some people prefer the Championship to the Premier league, because it's tighter and harder to call. Doesn't mean the games themselves are of the same quality.
 
might HAVE ? only team to win a test series in NZ in the pro era.

View attachment 3164

Does "the try from the other side of the world" ring the bell ? short memory...Saint-André was involved, but thank the Lord Almighty not as a coach.

Anyways, very nice win NZ. Some of those 50 points weren't legit, but still a very dominant performance obviously. So who's next ? Ah, ARG comin' over...

Well, don't know about France, but we were still amateur in '94. Turned pro after the '95 WC.
 
Well, don't know about France, but we were still amateur in '94. Turned pro after the '95 WC.

:D like that's what matters in the essence of my comment. Very nice contribution there.
 
Folau doesn't have the "rugby smarts" in his game yet. He is still reverting to type.....Rugby League. He bombed two tries tonight because he ran away from support (you can do that in Rugby League because there is no contest when you get tackled). He also lacks the ability to do the "heads up" play under pressure. On those occasions when he doesn't run away from support, he often doesn't look for it inside or out, and when he does, his passing at speed is technically deficient. He bombed a dead cert try last week (Aussies 3 to 1 overlap with NZ defence very short on the right) because he delivered a terrible pass to Beale that went 20 feet behind him, and the opportunity was lost.

Folau has the potential to be a great player and a game breaker. He is close to that at Super Rugby level, but he's not there yet at international level where the game is tighter, the pressure is higher, and the margins for error are much smaller,.

I really don't agree with this perception that he runs away from support, his counter attack that ultimately led to the Savea try was a perfect example of trying to link with your support rather than getting himself isolated - he broke he looked up adjusted his running style from low to high, went ball in both hands and ran an arch to Charles, slowed down to pass to Charles but then sold Jane the dummy (and got pole-axed by Janes reaction).

I'd pick him over any of the NZ back three.

Well, don't know about France, but we were still amateur in '94. Turned pro after the '95 WC.

lol! that old chestnut..... :)
 
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I really don't agree with this perception that he runs away from support, his counter attack that ultimately led to the Savea try was a perfect example of trying to link with your support rather than getting himself isolated - he broke he looked up adjusted his running style from low to high, went ball in both hands and ran an arch to Charles, slowed down to pass to Charles but then sold Jane the dummy (and got pole-axed by Janes reaction).

I'd pick him over any of the NZ back three.



lol! that old chestnut..... :)

Really? I'd way rather have Savea than Folau. I reckon Folau is overrated big time. I'd probably take him over Cory Jane but not Ben Smith or Savea. For a guy his size you never see him physically dominate people like Savea does. He does the same thing each time he enters the back line (shimmy at the line and try to to on the outside). He does pretty well for having such a limited repertoire, he can't kick or pass basically.
 
Really? I'd way rather have Savea than Folau. I reckon Folau is overrated big time. I'd probably take him over Cory Jane but not Ben Smith or Savea. For a guy his size you never see him physically dominate people like Savea does. He does the same thing each time he enters the back line (shimmy at the line and try to to on the outside). He does pretty well for having such a limited repertoire, he can't kick or pass basically.

He doesn't come off 2nd best in the contact area very often. He's a better broken field runner than Savea though so you seldom see him taking it into contact like JS does.

On the passing point he is fine no better or worse than most international outside backs... Ben Smith is a brilliant passer but lacks the pace of Folau.

I just think Folaus is a better strike runner and I'm a big fan of line runners from deep.
 
I've had some time to digest what I witnessed last night and gather a few thoughts.

Poor Refereeing But Ultimately Irrelevant
I must admit I have been quite amazed reading some of the comments by some of our NZ friends on these forums claiming that Romain Poilte had a good game last night. He was woeful, missing AB’s playing the ball on the ground and allowing them to come into the rucks illegally for much of the game. The “negative†style of play was in full force last night but you know what? It did not matter in the slightest as New Zealand were simply far too good and showed why they are the best side in the world.

Australia clearly got the rub of the green in the Sydney test and got a draw. In my view, NZ clearly benefited from a poor refereeing performance in Auckland and won in a good old fashioned massacre. This is the difference between the two sides and why the refereeing, while bad - was irrelevant of the outcome of the game at the end of the day.

I agree for the most part but I dont think the AB's got as much of an advantage this week as the Aussies got last week. I think the AB's deserved their two cards this week but both were overly harsh last week and actually Barret did noting wrong last week for his card and that had a big impact on the game.

I wasn't happy how Romain Poilte was allowing Hooper to crab sideways into rucks/tackles. Rather than coming in the back on side he comes from an offside position, bends down beside the ruck and crabs in. He won at least one clean turnover and at least two penalties doing that.

There was also a pretty major incident around the 55-56 min mark? Savea chased a kick an aussie missed it and the ball went away towards the aussie try line, savea went after the ball and he was blatantly grabbed from behind and pulled back by Palu who then passed him and claimed the ball. Savea and Palu were the only players there right on the Aussie try line. It should have been a yellow card for Palu at least.

The AB's two cards were silly and well deserved but that was much worse, basically a deliberate foul to prevent an All Black try.
 
He doesn't come off 2nd best in the contact area very often. He's a better broken field runner than Savea though so you seldom see him taking it into contact like JS does.

On the passing point he is fine no better or worse than most international outside backs... Ben Smith is a brilliant passer but lacks the pace of Folau.

I just think Folaus is a better strike runner and I'm a big fan of line runners from deep.

Folau's passing is ok, but isn't that great for an international fullback in my opinion. He will pass before he starts running, but after he often forgets he has 14 team-mates until he gets stopped (in which case he does have a good offload). This isn't really a massive issue for him though, as he usually just beats the final man himself rather than making the easy pass to his team mate.....

I think Folau's option taking at the back - specifically his unwillingness to kick the ball - is a far bigger issue for Australia. He didn't kick the ball a single time in these last two tests. There were 2-3 times in this last test that his unwillingness to kick the ball put Australia under a huge amount of pressure. Obviously you don't want your fullback kicking the ball away every single time, but you do need him to be able to make a clearing kick if required!

Personally I think Folau is the best strike runner in world rugby (and probably the best under the high ball too). However I prefer a much more complete fullback (read: Ben Smith).

I've had some time to digest what I witnessed last night and gather a few thoughts.

There is no doubt about it, we were comprehensively and systematically annihilated last night by a far from "on the decline" All Blacks side. I made a post about 30 minutes before kickoff explaining why I thought (or hoped) the Wallabies might win and how they had turned the corner mentally and culturally, it turns out I couldn't have been more wrong.

Selection Mistakes
It should be abundantly clear to Ewan McKenzie that the Kurtley Beale experiment has been a failure. Credit to him for playing his cards and sticking to his guns but it was a risk he should not have taken.

One has to ask the question about how much pressure McKenzie has added to his job with a disastrous selection policy? Lets not forget that McKenzie won the job from Deans on the back of a very public and successful campaigning. He is a popular coach in Australia which is probably the biggest reason he won the job over Jake White. I do not think he has done himself any favors and with a hot Michael Cheika waiting in the wings, McKenzie may just be starting to feel the heat.

Beale is a world class player but he is not a flyhalf. I was watching the rugby with my dad who is an AFL boy and pointing out to him repeatedly, how Beale was running sideways which allowed the All Blacks to very easily drift with him taking away space from our backline and allowing them to suffocate us. Kurtley is at his best when he has space to put himself and his teammates into gaps. You don't have the space at #10 to be successful with his style of play - at least not against the All Blacks.

A Few Positives
There was not a lot of good news to take out of this game if you are a Wallabies supporter but there were some positives. James Slipper, Michael Hooper and Israel Folau were excellent last night and just as good as the men in black, if not better. Unfortunately they did not get any help from their teammates. Matt Tamoua deserves a mention for a solid defensive game. Despite the 10 minutes when Rob Simmons was in the bin - the scrum was actually quite good I thought and the lineout solid all game. Lastly, Scott Higgenbotham, Nick Phipps and Benard Foley injected significant energy and structure when they came on again. I would start all 3 next week.

Poor Refereeing But Ultimately Irrelevant
I must admit I have been quite amazed reading some of the comments by some of our NZ friends on these forums claiming that Romain Poilte had a good game last night. He was woeful, missing AB's playing the ball on the ground and allowing them to come into the rucks illegally for much of the game. The "negative" style of play was in full force last night but you know what? It did not matter in the slightest as New Zealand were simply far too good and showed why they are the best side in the world.

Australia clearly got the rub of the green in the Sydney test and got a draw. In my view, NZ clearly benefited from a poor refereeing performance in Auckland and won in a good old fashioned massacre. This is the difference between the two sides and why the refereeing, while bad - was irrelevant of the outcome of the game at the end of the day.

Moving Forward
McKenzie has a very tough job regrouping and galvanizing the squad for an important game against South Africa next week in Perth. Did anyone watch the presentation ceremony at the end of the game? The Wallabies players were devastated and with a loss like that, very likely demotivated. Next week should be a close match but if they guys are not able to get their heads back in the game, it could be ugly. This next match is crucial to not only getting back into the RC but setting the tone for the rest of the year. We absolutely do not want to have a repeat of 2013.

Worst Poster on TRF?
Just a quick mention to the one and only austingtir. Congratulations on the award, well deserved.

Good post. I disagree that Poite had a poor game though. He made a few mistakes, but all referees do. New Zealand did get away with a bit at the breakdown, but Australia were far from Angels in this area - as has been mentioned Michael Hooper didn't enter from the back of a breakdown all match! The key for me was that he was pretty consistent with his rulings (in contrast of Peyper last weekend!) and let the game flow. The players all seemed to know exactly what the could and couldn't do, which led to a very good game of rugby in my opinion.

I forgot to mention Toomua, and I agree he had a big game on defense. He still needs to work on his timing a bit as at times he runs out of he line and leaves a big hole, but when he executes well his powerful defense is a massive asset to the Wallabies. I still prefer him at 10, but that is another story....
 
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Folau's passing is ok, but isn't that great for an international fullback in my opinion. He will pass before he starts running, but after he often forgets he has 14 team-mates until he gets stopped (in which case he does have a good offload). This isn't really a massive issue for him though, as he usually just beats the final man himself rather than making the easy pass to his team mate.....

I think Folau's option taking at the back - specifically his unwillingness to kick the ball - is a far bigger issue for Australia. He didn't kick the ball a single time in these last two tests. There were 2-3 times in this last test that his unwillingness to kick the ball put Australia under a huge amount of pressure. Obviously you don't want your fullback kicking the ball away every single time, but you do need him to be able to make a clearing kick if required!

Personally I think Folau is the best strike runner in world rugby (and probably the best under the high ball too). However I prefer a much more complete fullback (read: Ben Smith).



Good post. I disagree that Poite had a poor game though. He made a few mistakes, but all referees do. New Zealand did get away with a bit at the breakdown, but Australia were far from Angels in this area - as has been mentioned Michael Hooper didn't enter from the back of a breakdown all match! The key for me was that he was pretty consistent with his rulings (in contrast of Peyper last weekend!) and let the game flow. The players all seemed to know exactly what the could and couldn't do, which led to a very good game of rugby in my opinion.

I forgot to mention Toomua, and I agree he had a big game on defense. He still needs to work on his timing a bit as at times he runs out of he line and leaves a big hole, but when he executes well his powerful defense is a massive asset to the Wallabies. I still prefer him at 10, but that is another story....

I think the non-kicking here was frustration rather than can't. He kicked plenty sharing the French.

Fair points though... Bit were literally arguing semantics here s they are both worlds class players. :)
 
My random observations from the game.

I think the stage for the result was set when McCaw spent 10 in the bin and though it was just 3-3 the All Blacks were the stronger team. Then when the Aussies went down a man the All Blacks totally dominated.

I thought the referee was better, though as I pointed out Hoopers technique at breakdowns was very questionable and he got away on multiple occasions crabbing into the side of rucks/tackles from offside rather than coming in the gate. And there was the incident were Palu held back Savea without the ball to basically save an All Black try that was missed. I thought all 3 cards were a bit harsh but not wrong, not incorrect as the two from the week before, Barretts card in particular was flat out bad call. I'm sure the aussies have some incidents to bring up as well but IMO Hooper and the Palu hold had a big impact on the game.

Coles is fantastic, I honestly never thought he could turn into such a good test player. He was always a small but fast and fit hooker that was a bit hot headed and slowly over a few years hes must now be considered one of the best hookers in the world and he's totally outclassing the legend Mealamu. Coles is just what NZ needed with Hore and Mealamu aging. And I still think the wrong hooker was retired. Hore had peformed much better than Mealamu over the last few years. Sure Hore lost his pace but he was always an absolute beast at rucks and mauls.

Retalick well I think hes been the best lock in NZ and the world for the last 2 years but now after 2 years of standout performances week in week out more people are saying it. I don't know if there is another lock ever that was at such a high level at set piece time doing a locks core roles AND as good around the field in general play, ball carrying, rucks, mauls, defense combined with that WORKRATE which is phenomenal. Ive said it many times that NZ's two best players week after week season after season are no longer McCaw and Carter, its Retalick and Ben Smith.

Cruden was awesome as well, probably was his best game in Black. But I do think he shines in games like this where the AB's are generally dominant. In bigger, closer games I'd rather have carter there for his better defense and longer kicking range for both territory and goal kicking.

Crotty was really good, really really good and it's a shame he was injured. hes got all the skills, may be not Nonu's footwork but I'd take Crotty for defense over Nonu any day.

Conrad Smith was as reliable as ever.

Really good performance from the pack in general, all of them coles and retalick being the obvious standouts. McCaw's two trys and the penalty try were all basically combined forward efforts. Messam shelled 3 but two of those were from maybe the two worst passes the AB's threw the whole game. Shame because he actually threw some really good/important passes at times and for most of the game he led the All Blacks defensive line off the mark. I think the Aussies only scored after he came off.

Aaron Smith was superb as well, his game is becoming more and more critical to the AB's. going into the Springbok games I think Smith is going to become a target. Who knows but past springbok teams have targeted All Black halfbacks for special treatment.

Great impact from the bench in particular from Barrett, Cane and Fekitoa. Plus that fantastic run from Luatua for the cherry on the top. McCaw is still playing well but when Cane is on the field you see what we do miss having a lightning fast young 7 running around.

I really like Ben Franks I think he should be starting with Woody injured but he needs to stop giving away cards. His discipline seems to be an ongoing issue at test level. The last thing a team wants is replacements going to the bin. You can't have your fresh players sitting on the sidelines. They are the guys that need to lift and do extra work the last 20min.

I like the balance of the side with Barrett on the field, I think the AB's generally lack players with all out pace but when Barrett is on the field he is usually the fastest in either team and it adds another dimension to the AB attack, and defense as he showed mowing Israel Falau down.

Ben Smith and Savea were superb again, Savea with his pressure and finishing. Smith for his all round game and was a threat pretty much every carry.
 
I think the non-kicking here was frustration rather than can't. He kicked plenty sharing the French.

Fair points though... Bit were literally arguing semantics here s they are both worlds class players. :)

I definitely agree Folau's lack of kicking has a lot more to do with him not choosing to kick, rather than an ability to kick well. He played a season of AFL so he should be able to kick the ball pretty well. His lack of kicking in the Rugby Championship so far is not really an anomaly though. There was one game against France this season when he kicked 6 times, but he only kicked once in each of the other tests. He barely kicked for the Waratahs all season too - a total of 15 times in 14 matches (1.1 kicks/match). To put that in perspective Ben Smith (who in general favours counter attack over kicking) kicked 76 times in 16 matches (4.8 kicks per match), while the more 'kick happy' fullbacks averaged higher again (Dagg 6.6, Le Roux 7.5, Visser 7.0, Mogg 8.9 etc).

I do think Folau's unwillingness to kick put Australia (/the Waratahs) under a lot of unnecessary pressure at times. Obviously this may have a lot to do with his league background - in league you certainly don't kick when you receive the ball at he back, and may also have a lot to do with the fact Folau backs himself so much with ball in hand (which is one of his best attributes). I do think with more time his option taking at the back will improve (he's been playing Union for less than 2 years...), I just think it is an area he needs to keep working on.

There is no doubt he is a world class player though. It is scary to think just how good he could be if he sticks with Union and continues to develop his instincts for the game!
 
I remember having to defend Coles a lot in 2012. Even I didn't think he'd be such an attribute. If he gets injured..
 
yeah, he will be missed in the coming tests well he is on parental leave

no offense at all to mealamu, but I really hope Harris gets some game time and does well so he can be seen as a real option. I really don't feel mealamu is doing an adequate job.

He is Coles backup now and you would EXPECT him to either add genuine impact or at least do really well in scrums and lineouts. But he's not really doing any of those things IMO, I think the game time Mealamu is getting would be better used developing Harris or similar.
 
He is Coles backup now and you would EXPECT him to either add genuine impact or at least do really well in scrums and lineouts. But he's not really doing any of those things IMO, I think the game time Mealamu is getting would be better used developing Harris or similar.

Yeah he is really hit and miss now, can be awesome, but is really lacking that consistency that a backup is supposed to have.
 

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