[2014 TRC] Australia v New Zealand in Sydney (16/08/2014)

[goodNumber10]

terrible decision on Beale at 10. Foley has been the form 10 of the year bar no one why play a 12 at 10.

 

[RoosTah]

terrible decision on Beale at 10. Foley has been the form 10 of the year bar no one why play a 12 at 10.

Watch the last few Waratahs games again. It's not the positional shift people are making it out to be - Beale and Foley have been playing a 1st and 2nd five system all year in which they both play first receiver, and this was only made more pronounced at the back end of the year, so it's not like the role will be foreign. Indeed, Beale appeared to be calling more of the plays in the Grand Final and was at first receiver an awful lot of the time. His distribution was more critical than Foley's in both the Tahs tries (as I said above, he put Foley in the clear with a long flat cut out pass in the lead up to the first try) and he has the best passing game in Australia after Cooper.

 

[goodNumber10]

I understand that, but that doesn't necessarily mean it will work at International level.

one of the things that Beale does well at 12 but will get his backs killed at international level is those drifting sideways runs - that worls from 12 because Foley interests the defence or Beale plays as the second wave...I've just done an article for greenandgoldrugby that kind of illustrates that, but scott allen did a really good analysis just before the Lions about the Aussie 10 - the flaws he points out for Beale have not been addresses and are the reason he plays well at 12 outside Foley.

Your backline is going to go sideways and the all blacks love to drift on defence.

**edit: here it is: http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/who-should-run-the-wallabies-attack/

 

[RoosTah]

I know what you mean, but I think Beale has actually straightened a lot in his attack this year. Like Cooperm his "drift" is no where near as pronounced as it once was and the presence of Toomua is obviously to steady the ship by both straightening the attack if Beale does drift and help with defence. In fact I'm not all that worried about his defence in general, as every other player in the back line are great tacklers.

 

[austingtir]

Playing Beale at 10 is interesting I wonder how many games that will last for (even if they win Beale is not a long term 10 imo)!? Him and AAC at 13 is pretty much a dead give away on how they plan on playing which could actually play a bit into the AB's hands.

 

[Icemn]

id play toomua at 10 and nathan grey on 12 seriously, beale at 12... but i think they will swop alot in the game... that would be the backline i'd field, maybe not mccabe on 14...

the blacks i feel might drop jane place smith on 14 and dagg at fool-back... i'd drop dagg, put ben at 15 and jane on 14... but the AB seem to favor/use dagg's big boot... AB have 1st world problems ben, jane or dagg lol next year gear is back and SBW... not getting any easier...

 

[Big Ewis]

terrible decision on Beale at 10. Foley has been the form 10 of the year bar no one why play a 12 at 10.

agreed. Was a little shocked to see it this morning. Very strange and needlessly risky decision...and against the All-Blacks.
Weird...

 

[Peat]

Can Toomua goal kick?

 

[lynam1104]

Can Toomua goal kick?

I think he can but hes certainly not going to be first choice at it I reckon it will go White>Beale>Toomua.

Starting Beale is a very odd one to me TBH I hope he proves most wrong and has a good game but its been a long time since hes played 10 and I see the validity to SANZAR's arugment of how the Tahs use him but defense at international level is up much quicker and adding to that the 10 has even less time than the 12. If Link wanted Beale playing he should have gone all out with Foley-Beale-AAC. It is good to see AAC in at 13, top performances there in SR and hes just wasted on the wing. The wings are reliable players but they lack the spark one might expect of Aussie wings, odd considering how not too long ago they had Mitchel, JOC, Ione and more competing for the wings.

 

[nickdnz]

Can Toomua goal kick?

He can - but White and Lealiifano usually have the goal kicking duties at the Brumbies, so I'd be a bit suprised to see him line up for goal ahead of White and even Beale.

For me Beale at 10 is pretty strange as well. It's like when Link chucked JO'C at 10 against the Lions. Sure he deserves to be on the park, but why put a guy at 10 who hasn't played there all year. Foley has been class at 10 for the Waratahs and has played there all year. If they were so desperate to see him on the field it may as well be on the wing, where I'd bet he is at least as quick as Horne and McCabe or at inside centre where he has a proven combo with Foley. Bizzare, but makes me even more confident going into this weekend's game.

 

[Big Ewis]

there's just no justification for switching a player's position. It just never works. I have no clue why coaches do that. It's a boring reality, but there's a reason a player plays a certain position.
PSA wanted to add more power in the backrow and played Vahaamahina as a loose forward in Murraryfield. Yeh but he was way too slow, too tall, easy to tackle, and just doesn't have the workrate you need from you no.6. He plays Fofana on the wing, where he's not half the impact. He plays Le Bourhis on the wing although he's a center, in his first test - a center and a winger are vastly different, ffs. Some guys can pull it off, but those guys are KNOWN for it, you don't just pick a 13 and make him a 14, in ordinary circumstances.
You could totally understand Lancaster trying Tuilagi out on the wing, esp. given the fact that they wanted to field two other centers but couldn't leave out such a hugely influential player for the bench. Tried it. Didn't work as well as it could've.
But why here would you put Beale at the 10 when's he's so good elsewhere in the backline, and again Foley's there...what's the possible strategy that's worth actually doing over Foley at 10 and Beale at, say, 12 ? I'm guessing the only justification is experience. They're facing the AB, and Foley's too young yet to start.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

New Zealand:

15 Ben Smith, 14 Cory Jane, 13 Conrad Smith, 12 Ma'a Nonu, 11 Julian Savea, 10 Aaron Cruden, 9 Aaron Smith; 8 Kieran Read, 7 Richie McCaw (c), 6 Jerome Kaino, 5 Sam Whitelock, 4 Brodie Retallick, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Dane Coles, 1 Wyatt Crockett.

Replacements: 16 Keven Mealamu, 17 Ben Franks, 18 Joe Moody, 19 Steven Luatua, 20 Sam Cane, 21 TJ Perenara, 22 Beauden Barrett, 23 Malakai Fekitoa.

http://www.planetrugby.co.uk/story/0,25883,16024_9420449,00.html

So Bin Smuth at fullback; that will please AB fans. Corey Jane on the right wing and no Dagg or Piutau.

 

[Patchey]

New Zealand:

15 Ben Smith, 14 Cory Jane, 13 Conrad Smith, 12 Ma'a Nonu, 11 Julian Savea, 10 Aaron Cruden, 9 Aaron Smith; 8 Kieran Read, 7 Richie McCaw (c), 6 Jerome Kaino, 5 Sam Whitelock, 4 Brodie Retallick, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Dane Coles, 1 Wyatt Crockett.

Replacements: 16 Keven Mealamu, 17 Ben Franks, 18 Joe Moody, 19 Steven Luatua, 20 Sam Cane, 21 TJ Perenara, 22 Beauden Barrett, 23 Malakai Fekitoa.

http://www.planetrugby.co.uk/story/0,25883,16024_9420449,00.html

So Bin Smuth at fullback; that will please AB fans. Corey Jane on the right wing and no Dagg or Piutau.

Dat back row

As ever, dam strong looking team. I could have gone Slade at 23 over Fekitoa, but then I've got a man crush on Colin Slade so ignore me.

 

[Larksea]

strong All Black side, very strong.

Messam Being rested I can understand that. IMO they should manage the workload of Messam and Kaino through to the world cup. Kaino is fantastic, we dont want him getting burned out again like he did in 2011. Rotate them, keep them fresh they are both experienced enough to manage that.

Luatua as a lock option on the bench adds another dimension there that I like.

Pressure is on Cory Jane to produce on a regular basis, hes gone through a number of years now where he has been just ok most of the time and managed to produce a big game when he needed to. But he has a lot of pressure on him with Dagg and Piutau sitting in the stands.

 

[Peat]

He can - but White and Lealiifano usually have the goal kicking duties at the Brumbies, so I'd be a bit suprised to see him line up for goal ahead of White and even Beale.

For me Beale at 10 is pretty strange as well. It's like when Link chucked JO'C at 10 against the Lions. Sure he deserves to be on the park, but why put a guy at 10 who hasn't played there all year. Foley has been class at 10 for the Waratahs and has played there all year. If they were so desperate to see him on the field it may as well be on the wing, where I'd bet he is at least as quick as Horne and McCabe or at inside centre where he has a proven combo with Foley. Bizzare, but makes me even more confident going into this weekend's game.

Ah yes. Had him confused with Lealiifano, remembered that there was one Aussie 12 who was a really keen goal-kicker...

Be interesting to see how Beale goes at 10.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

He can - but White and Lealiifano usually have the goal kicking duties at the Brumbies, so I'd be a bit suprised to see him line up for goal ahead of White and even Beale.

For me Beale at 10 is pretty strange as well. It's like when Link chucked JO'C at 10 against the Lions. Sure he deserves to be on the park, but why put a guy at 10 who hasn't played there all year. Foley has been class at 10 for the Waratahs and has played there all year. If they were so desperate to see him on the field it may as well be on the wing, where I'd bet he is at least as quick as Horne and McCabe or at inside centre where he has a proven combo with Foley. Bizzare, but makes me even more confident going into this weekend's game.

It was Robbie Deans not Link who was in charge of the Wallabies during the Lions series and made the strange decision to put JOC at 10.

 

[RoosTah]

It was Robbie Deans not Link who was in charge of the Wallabies during the Lions series and made the strange decision to put JOC at 10.

Yes, and let's not blow this out I proportion - JOC had never really played 10, so it was always a pretty massive risk, but even still it actually almost worked (wallabies were a full time penalty kick away from winning that series in spite of the third test blow out).

Beale isn't in that position. He's played a tonne at 10... His first season was exclusively at 10 for the Tahs back in '08 and the team almost won the comp until he got injured half way through the final.

Also, while he was played at FB by Deans and has been used as a utility off the bench by McKenzie, in reality under Cheika's playmaker model he's spent a lot of time at the Tah's this year at first receiver (i.e. 10). Go back and watch the final again; in that first 15 minutes where the Tahs completely dominate Beale is almost exclusively playing first receiver, while foley is at 12 or over on the wing.

Lastly, just on this from Big Ewis

there's just no justification for switching a player's position.

You mean like how it didn't work when Stephen Larkham was moved from FB to 10?

 

[austingtir]

The AB's team is fairly impressive right through to the bench.

Cant believe this article trying to make out its a surprise that B Smith is starting....
https://nz.sports.yahoo.com/rugby/news/article/-/24710916/smith-beats-dagg-for-nz-fullback-jersey/

Dagg is lazy and needs this to wake him up before next year. Same as the former wallabies players Horwill and Genia. They are all lazy or have a bad attitude.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

no surprise, Dagg was awesome in 2011 but has slipped out of contention through poor form. Ben Smith on the other hand is awesome now, so well played to Hansen for making the right call.

 

[Kapa O Pango]

Bin Smuth time to shine on.