2014 QBE Internationals [EOYT] England

[ratsapprentice]

I dunno man... I'd imagine the sort of fatigue you get from an illness like that takes it's toll, and that you'd feel the effects for a long time afterwards.
5kg in 2-3 days is a huge amount of weight.

 

[goodNumber10]

yeah, he's going to be dehydrated and recovering for a good 7-8 days i'd have thought. Then it's getting back into it.

Normal people might be up and back to normal in a couple of days - or at least fully functional, but an elite athlete in a contact sport? doubtful.

 

[ratsapprentice]

http://www.englandrugby.com/news/rf...rce=Social&utm_medium=media&utm_campaign=2014

Good news IMO. A strong relationship with Sky could be a good bargaining chip in the future if things go ***s up with the PRL.

 

[Patchey]

If anyone can't recover from that level off illness in a weeks it's a machine like Haskell. Doubt he'll play though.


What do we think of the Brian Ashton news?

 

[Aristodemus]

I'm gutted for Haskell that this has happened, he has been a man reborn of late and I really want him to make the 6 shirt his. Like you guys I doubt even a beast like him can recover quickly enough from a virus that debilitating to make the starting XV.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Really gutted for Haskell too! I think we will see the following:

Marler Hartley Wilson
Launchbery lawes
Wood robshaw Morgan

That's the pack very settled really.

Then my guess is

Care
Farrell
May/ nowell
Barritt
JJ
Roko
Brown

I half think ford might get checked in, not play amazing and then it gives the biased management a reason to stick with limited Farrell.

I don't expect that backline to be any good and then people will realise that Barrett isn't an international standard player

 

[goodNumber10]

I don't expect that backline to be any good and then people will realise that Barrett isn't an international standard player

I reckon BB will play 13.

 

[goodNumber10]

If anyone can't recover from that level off illness in a weeks it's a machine like Haskell. Doubt he'll play though.


What do we think of the Brian Ashton news?

Think there is nothing in it other than them having a chat.

Catt and Farrell are doing OK. I don't see what Ashton will bring to the party.

 

[Crapspray]

I don't see what Ashton will bring to the party.

He was attack coach (IIRC) for the 2003 side, so I think he will be of good use. Especially considering that's England's weakest area- they're miles behind that side. I like that Lancaster's man enough, as it were, to bring in someone else to have a look. I hate the idea he'd make the coaching team an introverted clique.

For me Ashton's one of those coaches who's terrible in charge, but very good working under a management-type head coach. Andy Robinson's probably the same; great as forwards coach under Sir Clive, but absolutely naff when trying to head things. If Ashton's there for a few days --with Lancaster keeping his hands out of the cookie jar-- he can't exactly do damage. And if he manages to throw in a few new set-moves, or teaches Barritt how to pass, then so be it.

That's why I hope when Lancaster eventually goes the RFU don't make the same mistake they did in 2004, and bring in someone like Baxter or Mallinder instead of promoting a deputy. Think Rowntree as head coach for two years, then Farrell for two more, then Robshaw for three after that.

 

[goodNumber10]

He was attack coach (IIRC) for the 2003 side, so I think he will be of good use. Especially considering that's England's weakest area- they're miles behind that side. I like that Lancaster's man enough, as it were, to bring in someone else to have a look. I hate the idea he'd make the coaching team an introverted clique.

For me Ashton's one of those coaches who's terrible in charge, but very good working under a management-type head coach. Andy Robinson's probably the same; great as forwards coach under Sir Clive, but absolutely naff when trying to head things. If Ashton's there for a few days --with Lancaster keeping his hands out of the cookie jar-- he can't exactly do damage. And if he manages to throw in a few new set-moves, or teaches Barritt how to pass, then so be it.

That's why I hope when Lancaster eventually goes the RFU don't make the same mistake they did in 2004, and bring in someone like Baxter or Mallinder instead of promoting a deputy. Think Rowntree as head coach for two years, then Farrell for two more, then Robshaw for three after that.

Ashton had left by 2003, he was there in 2002, when they were phenomenal, but they were not exactly a good attacking side with him in charge 2006/07 where they?

Catt is one of the best attack coaches this country has ever seen, he's straight out of the Ashton school of rugby having learnt the game under him in the 90's, London Irish when he was in charge were all about strike moves so really what's Ashton going to bring?

I'm sure they are just brainstorming but i don't think there will be any hands on coaching.

But you never know, eh?

then Robshaw for three after that.

Wha?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Catt isn't our attack coach - he's the "skills coach".

Mike Ford explained what he does at a Bath supporters meeting (because he wanted to hire someone to fulfil the same role).
He basically mentors the players individually on certain skills. So, for example, he'll work with Anthony Watson on side-stepping and using his feet with the ball in hand, or his kicking out of hand.
And with someone like Billy Vunipola he might work on his offloading game. I think towards the end of last season Owen Farrell put in 2-3 really awesome grubbers in one game at Allianz and the commentary mentioned that Catt had been working with him specifically on grubber kicking during the previous week.

I've not seen anything to suggest Catt is in charge of our attack.

 

[Crapspray]

Ashton had left by 2003, he was there in 2002, when they were phenomenal, but they were not exactly a good attacking side with him in charge 2006/07 where they?

Which was my point (though mea culpa on the date). He was great for the attack as an assistant, but awful as head coach. If Lancaster brings him in for a few days as an assistant, it'll probably do good - regardless of whether it's on the training pitch or in a coaching meeting.

Wha?

I was just following the pattern of coaches from 2004-2011. Forwards coach, backs coach, then captain of the 2003 side. The RFU's folly of trying desperately to replicate the golden era by using fragments of it.

 

[goodNumber10]

Catt isn't our attack coach - he's the "skills coach".

Mike Ford explained what he does at a Bath supporters meeting (because he wanted to hire someone to fulfil the same role).
He basically mentors the players individually on certain skills. So, for example, he'll work with Anthony Watson on side-stepping and using his feet with the ball in hand, or his kicking out of hand.
And with someone like Billy Vunipola he might work on his offloading game. I think towards the end of last season Owen Farrell put in 2-3 really awesome grubbers in one game at Allianz and the commentary mentioned that Catt had been working with him specifically on grubber kicking during the previous week.

I've not seen anything to suggest Catt is in charge of our attack.

I've not said he is.

 

[ratsapprentice]

What was your point about Catt then?

 

[goodNumber10]

My point was that I don't see Ashton brining much/if anything into the set up that isn't already there. Because Catt is an excellent attack coach and already in the set up.

I've not said he manages our attack (though i do not belive for one minute there isn't signifcant overlap)

 

[ratsapprentice]

I don't think Catt does have much of a voice on the attack.

Not that I think that we're suddenly going to see massive changes in our attack patterns, but I don't think you can compare Ashton being brought in for a couple of days, and Catt being the skills coach.
Ashton has been brought in specifically as what is essentially an "attack consultant", whereas Catt has a very specific role.

I guess we just disagree on the extent of involvement Catt has in the overall attacking play - I think he's basically just there to help implement what the other coaches want.

 

[goodNumber10]

Catt's role as I understand it is specifically "Attacking Skills", so I just don't see how that can be exclusive of the attack coaches role, there has to be overlap otherwise he can't do his job.

Ashton in as an actual consultant, was news to me, i thought he'd only been brought in for a chat as previously. Just seen the guardian article and it says he will have input and will attend the NZ game under this role - so i stand corrected.

 

[ratsapprentice]

As I understand the role, and as is suggested by it's ***le - I don't see why he would have any real effect on the attacking shape of the team.
More - Farrell tells him he wants Brad Barritt to chuck in a cross-field kick and Catt works on it with BB, or whatever skill with whoever.

Ashton in as an actual consultant, was news to me, i thought he'd only been brought in for a chat as previously.

err... does that not constitute consulting?
You don't need an embossed silk business-card in order to hold a consultation.

 

[Geordie]

Is anyone else concerned that Farrell hasnt really recovered from the end of last seasons injury and not had any kind of form so far this season...and subsequently barely played?

He's played an awful lot of rugby of the last few years...he needs to managed. And with that in mind do you want a struggling Farrell at 10 or the inexperienced but in form Ford?

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

^

Big decisions to be made in that regard;

Clearly, Ford is playing the better rugby at the moment and is in better shape fitness wise it seems. Added to the fact that he has had so little game-time internationally, I really feel he needs to be playing these autumn internationals if we are to head into the world cup year with more than one fly half with adequate experience.

However, our coaches appear to obsess first and foremost about continuity and I therefore wouldn't be surprised at all if Farrell is consistently picked to start, regardless.