2014 QBE Internationals [EOYT] England

[j'nuh]

Ford has 2 England caps, If they went with Farrell starting then he'll likely have 6 by the end of this AI, 3 coming from the bench and starting against Fiji. He'll probably gain more in the 6 nations.

We are playing the best two teams in the world, and NZ and SA will not be playing development players against us at least not in key positions like 10 - we need to go strongest 15.

I'm not saying Ford shouldn't start, he's been playing well, but i really disagree with this " we must blood players", the world cup is a focus but it's not the only focus... we cannot demean test rugby just because of a four year cycle.

But I don't think anyone is suggesting that. Picking Ford isn't picking a newbie for the sake of it, it's picking the form player whilst also having the additional benefit of improving our stocks. It's a win on two fronts.

We made a massssssssssssssive mistake in the last WC cycle by being overly consistent with the players that weren't the form ones e.g. Moody, Wilko, Tindall. We introduced a teenage Tuilagi in the WC warm-up games and he went on to be our best player in the tournament. Consistency is a good basis for the backbone of your squad, but blinding yourself by it and not recognising form players is not.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

But I don't think anyone is suggesting that. Picking Ford isn't picking a newbie for the sake of it, it's picking the form player whilst also having the additional benefit of improving our stocks. It's a win on two fronts.

We made a massssssssssssssive mistake in the last WC cycle by being overly consistent with the players that weren't the form ones e.g. Moody, Wilko, Tindall. We introduced a teenage Tuilagi in the WC warm-up games and he went on to be our best player in the tournament. Consistency is a good basis for the backbone of your squad, but blinding yourself by it and not recognising form players is not.

This, you look at the likes of North, Savea, Folau, Ben Smith etc and you see a bunch of really young players who are given one chance and almost immediately show they are the best and now you wonder how you could consider a team without them.

 

[Peat]

I'm with everyone saying that building a squad is a worthwhile consideration.

The need for talented players who can slot in if accidents happen - or who can offer a different tactical value if needed - or who can bring out the best in their rivals through competition - that is a real need.

I'd also point out that there are questions over England's best team that need answering - and giving gametime is the best way to answer these questions.

I don't think these are the biggest considerations around. When you've got games looming against New Zealand, they're very small considerations. But they're still matters worth considering.

And I think that in the current case of Ford vs Farrell, they're definitely worth considering as a sort of tie break question.

 

[goodNumber10]

But I don't think anyone is suggesting that. Picking Ford isn't picking a newbie for the sake of it, it's picking the form player whilst also having the additional benefit of improving our stocks. It's a win on two fronts.

We made a massssssssssssssive mistake in the last WC cycle by being overly consistent with the players that weren't the form ones e.g. Moody, Wilko, Tindall. We introduced a teenage Tuilagi in the WC warm-up games and he went on to be our best player in the tournament. Consistency is a good basis for the backbone of your squad, but blinding yourself by it and not recognising form players is not.

For about the Millionth Time i haven't said dont' pick the form player, i've said PICK the form player. Just don't pick a player solely to give him experience.

Massive difference.

Besides you've just given a great example of experience not mattering if you are good enough with Manu.

What happens if you get through to next year and Ford has a drastic loss of form and drops out of the running? How do you get your experience then? Are you not going to play Farrell in the pool games because someone else needs experience should we need him in the Semi-final?

Let the best players play the next game, whomever they are, if that's Farrell that's fine, if its Ford that's also fine.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Launchbury is out of the series.

****.

Step forward Dave Attwood and George Kruis.

Too early for Itoje to come in as backup?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

So guess Kitchener will be brought up.

Starters
Attwood
Lawes

Bench
Kruis

reserve
Kitchener (although he should be bench).

 

[ratsapprentice]

Although we have just lost one of our most important players, it's in our strongest position.

Attwood and Lawes is still a great combo - arguably a better combo than Joe/Courtney... although I would have preferred Joe/Dave.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, it's really crappy to lose Mr. Berry, but I'm looking forward to seeing Attwood (presumably) getting some starts.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Kitchener has been brought in.

He better be sent back to tigers, as we only have 2 fit locks over 20.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Might work out for you - he is less like to be crocked with England, and he'll be available to play for you.

Interesting to note that Watson is staying with England - outside shot at the 23 shirt.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Not with our look it will be all of our locks who have been on England duty in the past year have been injured with them.

 

[Patchey]

Full list if players currently in camp: http://www.englandrugby.com/news/la...rce=Social&utm_medium=media&utm_campaign=2014

Myler and Burrell at Saints for treatment. Paice called in to cover hooker.

Realistically, Paice is the best option. He's a solid hooker with a good chunk of international experience. I think guys like Grey, Yendle and George would be better in terms of developing players long term, but you shouldn't bring a new guy in a week before a test and expect him to get up to speed and make his debut. If Webber or Hartley are out for bit longer I'd hope to see one of them come in though.

As for lock, is Slater now injured? Attwood is indeed expecting his first child so there a not insignificant chance that he'll miss the game. I'm less worries about the newer guys having to start, but it could be Lawes and Kruis starting with Kitchener on the bench. In a way it's a good chance to see how practical out depth at lock is.

 

[Peat]

Gray's got an England cap and has been in and around the England set-up for the last two years solid, maybe longer. Not saying he should have been there ahead of Paice, simply that he'd be a pretty safe pick as well.

Four scrum-halves, why do we need four bloody scrum-halves?

 

[goodNumber10]

i'm not too worried, the pack stood up against the AB's in the summer it's about the only place i do have confidence in us to take them on - my biggest fear is broken field defence.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Slaters been out for a while now. Can't remember what's wrong with him but I remember he's in for a lengthy layoff.

If Myler is being treated back at Saints then Cipriani should've been called up to train.

 

[Patchey]

I mean if we'd started with three hookers then Gray could have been involved and ready to step up. But we all knew just having Hartley and Webber was a bit of a weird call.

Slaters been out for a while now. Can't remember what's wrong with him but I remember he's in for a lengthy layoff.

If Myler is being treated back at Saints then Cipriani should've been called up to train.

Don't be silly, Alex Goode covers ten!

 

[goodNumber10]

Slaters been out for a while now. Can't remember what's wrong with him but I remember he's in for a lengthy layoff.

If Myler is being treated back at Saints then Cipriani should've been called up to train.

I guess because Slade is in the squad?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Slade covers both Burrell and Myler.

Remember Lancaster has stated that his third choice FH should cover centre too - think Slade might be in the money for the RWC squad.

Also notable that Watson looks like the third choice FB considering that Foden was sent home and Ant was kept.

 

[Peat]

I think it might be simpler to say that Lancaster's two tens are Farrell and Ford; the third, whoever they may be, is an afterthought, and there's no real point replacing an afterthought.

I'd want to get Cips into the England environment regardless, or Burns, or anyone really, but it's pretty irrelevant from Lancaster's pov.

 

[goodNumber10]

i dunno, the 10/12 hybrid makes a lot of sense in regards to developing the world cup squad - you need players who can play both ala Mike Catt.