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[2025 Six Nations] Scotland vs Ireland - 09/02/25

ROG is why we love an Irish WC flop, what a c***. I thought he was ok pre match as well
ROG was widely considered a massive, solar sized c*nt when he was a player, don't know why he would change as a coach and pundit

he is a legend, and an irish legend, a very talented and passionate coach

and a massive, galactic level c*nt
 
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I think the best thing about being an Ireland fan is that that's been the case in parts for 25 years now and consistently for 10 (looking inward rather than in comparison to other 6n sides). Ok, 2019, the coaching had become outdated and predictable and you can only say it with the benefit of hindsight about 2020 and early 2021 when we struggled to implement Farrell's new attacking and defensive approaches (I mentioned on the England thread that 14 games to get it right is Neinaber's theory of rugby coaching), which applied to a lesser extent to the autumn also. However we're now in a time of unprecidented winning percentages and achievements and it's followed times of unprecedented percentages and achievements, Andy Farrell, Joe Schmidt and Eddie O'Sullivan are Ireland's top three coaches in terms of winning % and Declan Kidney ended a 61 year grand slam drought. Even games we lose now tend to be one score games where a bounce of a ball or a refereeing interpretation could change the result, there's no team in rugby that we'd go into a game with thinking we don't have a good chance to win against. England fans will be more aware of this than we are but that is how to go deep in world cups.

The rugby world cup obviously hasn't fallen our way yet but lessons were learned in 2015 (depth is needed for International rugby), 2019 (you can never stop expanding and improving how you play the game in international rugby) and I'm sure we've picked up on things from 2023, I'd guess using our bench as a weapon rather than a tool to not let the standard drop is one thing based on this tournament. It gets harder as you get to the top, the margins are finer and games like today become can't lose rather than shouldn't lose games, but if the trend continues and we get a bit more luck come the world cup, there really is no ceiling in terms of what we can achieve in the next 6-7 years at least (everything is cyclical and predicting beyond that is a bit pointless because if France and England can start to be as efficient as us we'd begin to rely on golden generations coming through at the right time to keep up. You can't mould Johnny Sexton, Caelan Doris, Tadhg Beirne or POM, they are the way they are and were nurtured by their provinces / Ireland / Scarlets).

But equally, and this is something Ireland fans online don't seem to get which infuriates me, is that there's no way to guarantee a win v NZ, SA or France (I think England and maybe even Argentina could join this list soon). When everyone's goal is the same, everyone's effort is the same and differences in talent, fitness, tactics and performance are negligible, like the top 4 at the last world cup, a moment of inspiration / madness will generally be the difference and we saw that with Jordie Barrett holding up Kelleher over the line, Kolbe charging down Ramos and Etzebeth's charge down, and Sam Cane's red card. All the structure and coaching in the world can't factor that in.

Anyway, bit of a rant but there's been a lot of negativity about Ireland elsewhere recently and while it's not ideal at provincial level right now outside Leinster and we are at a natural advantage, the roadmap is there for everyone to reach their potential.
agree 100% very well balanced and smart view

I still think argentina is a bit below england in terms of the depth of talent, seeing the issues we have replacing centers and props

i still think france can take this tho, they are very very very veyr talented
 
ROG was widely considered a massive, solar sized c*nt when he was a player, don't know why he would change as a coach and pundit

he is a legend, and an irish legend, a very talented and passionate coach

and a massive, galactic level c*nt
ROG v Felipe was my favourite rivalry in rugby history. They truly hated each other on and off the pitch, it was beautiful.
 
ROG v Felipe was my favourite rivalry in rugby history. They truly hated each other on and off the pitch, it was beautiful.
I don't know if they ever bothered translating this interview. but right after kicking ireland out of RWC 2007 Felipe called him a "disgusting person" right off the bat, which only signals him as a twat himself, but he couldn't help it

everyone knows felipe is a bellend, him trying to pile on ROG is just hilarious

it was him and Donncha O'Callaghan, also a character
 
I don't know if they ever bothered translating this interview. but right after kicking ireland out of RWC 2007 Felipe called him a "disgusting person" right off the bat, which only signals him as a twat himself, but he couldn't help it

everyone knows felipe is a bellend, him trying to pile on ROG is just hilarious

it was him and Donncha O'Callaghan, also a character
I think I read subtitles years ago haha.

Felipe is my favourite player of all time. Leinster needed a few bellends in the mid 2000s and we went and got him, Cheika and Rocky Elsom which was arguably overkill but brilliant to watch!
 
I think the best thing about being an Ireland fan is that that's been the case in parts for 25 years now and consistently for 10 (looking inward rather than in comparison to other 6n sides). Ok, 2019, the coaching had become outdated and predictable and you can only say it with the benefit of hindsight about 2020 and early 2021 when we struggled to implement Farrell's new attacking and defensive approaches (I mentioned on the England thread that 14 games to get it right is Neinaber's theory of rugby coaching), which applied to a lesser extent to the autumn also. However we're now in a time of unprecidented winning percentages and achievements and it's followed times of unprecedented percentages and achievements, Andy Farrell, Joe Schmidt and Eddie O'Sullivan are Ireland's top three coaches in terms of winning % and Declan Kidney ended a 61 year grand slam drought. Even games we lose now tend to be one score games where a bounce of a ball or a refereeing interpretation could change the result, there's no team in rugby that we'd go into a game with thinking we don't have a good chance to win against. England fans will be more aware of this than we are but that is how to go deep in world cups.

The rugby world cup obviously hasn't fallen our way yet but lessons were learned in 2015 (depth is needed for International rugby), 2019 (you can never stop expanding and improving how you play the game in international rugby) and I'm sure we've picked up on things from 2023, I'd guess using our bench as a weapon rather than a tool to not let the standard drop is one thing based on this tournament. It gets harder as you get to the top, the margins are finer and games like today become can't lose rather than shouldn't lose games, but if the trend continues and we get a bit more luck come the world cup, there really is no ceiling in terms of what we can achieve in the next 6-7 years at least (everything is cyclical and predicting beyond that is a bit pointless because if France and England can start to be as efficient as us we'd begin to rely on golden generations coming through at the right time to keep up. You can't mould Johnny Sexton, Caelan Doris, Tadhg Beirne or POM, they are the way they are and were nurtured by their provinces / Ireland / Scarlets).

But equally, and this is something Ireland fans online don't seem to get which infuriates me, is that there's no way to guarantee a win v NZ, SA or France (I think England and maybe even Argentina could join this list soon). When everyone's goal is the same, everyone's effort is the same and differences in talent, fitness, tactics and performance are negligible, like the top 4 at the last world cup, a moment of inspiration / madness will generally be the difference and we saw that with Jordie Barrett holding up Kelleher over the line, Kolbe charging down Ramos and Etzebeth's charge down, and Sam Cane's red card. All the structure and coaching in the world can't factor that in.

Anyway, bit of a rant but there's been a lot of negativity about Ireland elsewhere recently and while it's not ideal at provincial level right now outside Leinster and we are at a natural advantage, the roadmap is there for everyone to reach their potential.

This can't be emphasised enough. The margins are razor thin.
 
I still can't understand the seemingly unanimous agreement behind not awarding (or even considering) the penalty try.

If you remove VDM from the equation (as the laws prescribe) Nash easily gets to the ball before it goes dead. Anyone who says different hasn't a clue.

VDM gets to it before it goes dead and he has time to stand over the ball, shepparding it over the line. He started behind Nash when he pushed him so does he easily get to it but Nash has no chance? Bizarre reasoning.

No other Scot has a chance to beat Nash to the ball either so the correct assumption of the referee should have been that it was probable that a try would have been scored. He didn't even investigate it properly.
 
I still can't understand the seemingly unanimous agreement behind not awarding (or even considering) the penalty try.

If you remove VDM from the equation (as the laws prescribe) Nash easily gets to the ball before it goes dead. Anyone who says different hasn't a clue.

VDM gets to it before it goes dead and he has time to stand over the ball, shepparding it over the line. He started behind Nash when he pushed him so does he easily get to it but Nash has no chance? Bizarre reasoning.

No other Scot has a chance to beat Nash to the ball either so the correct assumption of the referee should have been that it was probable that a try would have been scored. He didn't even investigate it properly.
Tbh for me it's consistent with most PT situations. The ball is bouncing away from him and even without the push he needed to change direction. There were also other Scottish defenders around.

Would he have scored probably but not definitely. I've seen plenty of others where I'm 99% certain try would be scored, but because there is a defender 'nearby' the officials won't give it. At least it's consistent for me which is the best you want from officials.
 
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Had a chance to cool my jets a bit since yesterday, always seem to get a raised amount of anger vs Ireland 😂

First off, fair dos to the men in green they were miles better than Scotland and clearly earned the win. They did what Ireland do, massive physicality and relentless breakdown battling. Prendergast looked decent tbf I can see him becoming a long term feature in all honesty.

For Scotland, well we got rattled by Ireland once again - same happened with SA, big aggressive teams throw us off balance early on. VDMs card was clumsy, the double injury a real blow (Darcy out in a superb tackle a few minutes before which was joyous) and we just didn't get much of the 50/50's from the ref - just not our day.

I did feel we had some positives, the second half started very well, Zander Fagerson, White, Darge, and Jones all mostly had decent a game. Tom Jordan took a big step up into the 10 slot, had a nervy start but showed some real ability which was impressive given the circumstances. Can see him as a 10 option in future, he's bigger than Finn and has a big pass on him.

The back row had a mixed game as a collective, Ireland are masters of fast then slow breakdown control and we just didn't get a proper handle on it - they have an canny knack (have done for years) of just getting in the way long enough to be a nuisance and avoid getting pinged for it. Better management of the referee from Scotland may have tidied this up, it's something Finn can usually do he is extremely intelligent and a wee smile helps the cause.

Kinghorn didn't have a great one, some OK runs through but the kicking and missed tackle on Lowe (?) wasn't his finest moment.

In summary, it pretty much justifies the world rankings - there are 3 teams in Ire, SA and France who are all in the mix at the top and are notably better than the next ones below them. For Scotland this needs to toughen us up, there is still plenty rugby to play this 6N.
 
It feels a shame that Scotland has such an excellent backline, but couldn't get them into the game with decent front-foot ball because their pack is weaker. Also two playmakers taking each other out of the game was a big loss.
Overall, the closest Ireland looked to losing this game was probably during 'Flower of Scotland', but after the kick-off it was never in doubt. The Ireland-France game feels like a world cup final.
 
It's the easy wind up celebration but like claiming teams have bottled games it's mostly ********.

Only element of truth here is Scotland don't adapt their game but that's a tactical choice rather than arrogance.
Well no it more based on they are hyped as potential challengers and what have they done only beat an erratic England team every so often.
They don't rattle any top team and simply put are not as good as they are hyped.

Like what have they actually done over past 3 years:
Beat a poor Aus side in November but were hammered by South Africa.
Last 6 Nations beat a poor English team but equally lost to Italy and fell over line vs a desperate Welsh team.
The World Cup they were hyped but were well beaten by Ireland and South Africa.

Like the facts are they are hyped up but when you look under the bonnet they are nowhere near challenging.
 
I still can't understand the seemingly unanimous agreement behind not awarding (or even considering) the penalty try.

If you remove VDM from the equation (as the laws prescribe) Nash easily gets to the ball before it goes dead. Anyone who says different hasn't a clue.

VDM gets to it before it goes dead and he has time to stand over the ball, shepparding it over the line. He started behind Nash when he pushed him so does he easily get to it but Nash has no chance? Bizarre reasoning.

No other Scot has a chance to beat Nash to the ball either so the correct assumption of the referee should have been that it was probable that a try would have been scored. He didn't even investigate it properly.
To be fair ref was excellent communicating it.

Nash was disadvantaged vs the covering player as the bounce. was gone inwards. If it bounced another way it is a different conversation.

To award the Pen Try you would need to be fairly certain and to be honest it isn't clear as the ball had gone well in that it was 50/50 Nash gets there 1st
 
[snip]

Like the facts are they are hyped up but when you look under the bonnet they are nowhere near challenging.
I've yet to see any hype that Scotland should be beating, or considered part of, the top 4
Granted, I may have missed the odd comment here or there, but the hype that's being claimed...
 
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Well no it more based on they are hyped as potential challengers and what have they done only beat an erratic England team every so often.
They don't rattle any top team and simply put are not as good as they are hyped.

Like what have they actually done over past 3 years:
Beat a poor Aus side in November but were hammered by South Africa.
Last 6 Nations beat a poor English team but equally lost to Italy and fell over line vs a desperate Welsh team.
The World Cup they were hyped but were well beaten by Ireland and South Africa.

Like the facts are they are hyped up but when you look under the bonnet they are nowhere near challenging.
I don't think this applies to this Scotland team to be honest. Townsend was quite docile before and after the game and accepted they were up against a better teams and that he hoped their improvements would be enough.

Improvements not being evident is their biggest worry, they had no answers for us coming out incredibly strong and building a buffer early. They were never going to win from more than two scores down and even more than one score was a big ask.

Scotland have wised up a bit in the media ever since Kinghorn said something along the lines of "we've figured Ireland out and will end their run" at the world cup. POM throwing it in their face was probably a wake up call that teams use this to motivate themselves and that they'd been poking bears for years.

I don't want to sound condescending but you look at the packs and benches yesterday and it's obvious Scotland shouldn't expect to beat us. Even where they're at their strongest, those players are at best marginally better than their opposite man in green. Neither side were at their best yesterday but a 14 point difference to the away side is a pretty accurate illustration of the gulf between the teams right now. You'd do well to find anyone to argue that and any hope they had was based on us playing more like we did in the autumn rather than last week.
 

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