[2014 Mid-Year Tests] New Zealand vs England (3rd Test)

[goodNumber10]

I'm a huge May fan and Ashton hater (since he left saints) but from an England view I think we are making the right calls.

I think will have been told to go away and work on a few things and Ashton deserves his chance again.

None of our wingers have actually been hat good defensively and may has made a lot of errors in attack and defence.

If we had an injury though is expect to see May straight back in until Watson overtakes everyone!

To be fair he does play better off Tuilagi then any other centre.

If he knows there is a line breaker he will hover around them in broken play.

I think he could link up well with Eastmond and how he passes.

Anyway, guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[goodNumber10]

Well I'd say Flood was a better option at 10 for the first season and a half of Farrell's England career. But obviously there was no where near the same forth of options at ten as we now have on the wing. For about two seasons Farrell have us next to nothing in attack compared to the energy Flood brought, and yet he was retained as the starting ten and did radially improve.

I was at work in the middle of nowhere so missed the first test and have yet to see more than a few sets of highlights. I'll happily take you word that May made errors but they sounds like errors more from a lack of communication or confidence. Brown has hardly been his normal, machine like self under reassure this series but I don't think it would be fair to have dropped him after the first test, so I think the same should have applied for May.

I agree with your earlier point about Foden being unlucky. He should be 23 this week for sure, not Burrell.

was flood available the first year? Hodgson was the second 10 for the first season of Farrells senior International career, and then second season Flood was quite off key - i recall it being a right royal tussle between the two - and Farrell was playing well for Sarries and doing his basics for England - i mean he went on a Lions tour at the end of his second season.

I agree on brown, but as i have said i don't think May has been dropped for anyone other than Yarde which is hard to argue with - they see Yarde as a left wing - he was out of position in the first test (by Englands reckoning) and he moved accross, and was pretty succesful.

agree Foden should be 23, although personally i'd have gone for a 6 vs 2 split.

What is it with Lancaster and refusing to have proper outside back cover on the bench. I swear either he of Farrell Snr just don't understand what the back three does.

Cipriani is covering Fullback i'd imagine.

 

[Patchey]

I think Flood was injured during the 2012 Six Nations but he was much better than Farrell on the South Africa tour. After that he don't think he played badly but he just couldn't fit into the system. He was constantly making half breaks and not getting support, taking the ball to the line only to find Bartot standing too deep at 12 etc etc. it's all academic now though.

Not sure about having been 'dropped for Yarde' ask they both played together in the first test. But it's possible I guess.

I would have thought moving Burns to 15 would be our option if Brown falls over. I think he may have played there before at least.

 

[goodNumber10]

I think Flood was injured during the 2012 Six Nations but he was much better than Farrell on the South Africa tour. After that he don't think he played badly but he just couldn't fit into the system. He was constantly making half breaks and not getting support, taking the ball to the line only to find Bartot standing too deep at 12 etc etc. it's all academic now though.

Not sure about having been 'dropped for Yarde' ask they both played together in the first test. But it's possible I guess.

I would have thought moving Burns to 15 would be our option if Brown falls over. I think he may have played there before at least.

Cipriani played about 2 season at Fullback for Wasps didn't he?

 

[Jack Reacher]

Do they spend most of the week teaching him how to hold players back or are they teaching him proper defensive lines

yeah, I don't know why thats come into his game - I guess its a factor of losing pace as he gets older and also knowing when to get away with it!

 

[Patchey]

Cipriani played about 2 season at Fullback for Wasps didn't he?

I thought he was always a ten? Not sure at all though.

Either way, I'm not a fan of having. Bench without a recognised 10/15 utility player or fullback who can also cover the wing. If Brown falls over in the first ten mins and Cips comes on to cover him we'll have a fullback with tired legs from Tuesday for most of the game.

I'm beginning to get very frustrated with our bench selection.

 

[welshglory]

He won the heineken cup as fullback then he was still understudy to King

 

[Patchey]

He won the heineken cup as fullback then he was still understudy to King

Yeah just looked it up in Wikipedia.

Also, everyone should go on his Wiki page. The picture is hilarious.

 

[Captain Robshaw]

Ashton in is clearly an attacking move. His defence is a weakness but has improved. For someone people think is an absolute disaster at international level, he hasn't half scored a lot of tries there.

He's has a bad couple of seasons but his form has been good and he deserves his chance. I guess he'll have to prove people wrong on Saturday. For what it's worth, the only other winger who I think has deserved to nail down a place these past few seasons is Nowell. All of the others have been decent at best. Can't argue that the position is still up for grabs.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Nice summation, Peat - exactly how I feel.

 

[goodNumber10]

Well i will point out two weeks ago you were all slating Burns for daring to even tour, I defended his selection - and he had a blinder.

Ashton to Splash for a Hatrick











<_<

 

[Patchey]

Well i will point out two weeks ago you were all slating Burns for daring to even tour, I defended his selection - and he had a blinder.

Ashton to Splash for a Hatrick











<_<

I don't think we were slating him, more the idea that anything he had done this season merited selection over Cips. I still stand by that too, there was no evidence to suggest his form would rapidly recover as it had. Also, Cips came on and played just as well.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Well i will point out two weeks ago you were all slating Burns for daring to even tour, I defended his selection - and he had a blinder.

Ashton to Splash for a Hatrick

<_<

You also said that Joel Tomkins would be in contention again to play for England (union) as he was not as bad as everyone said he was. Then he scurried back to league.

 

[Big Ewis]

I've got a weird gut feeling Ashton's going to score against NZ again.

 

[Patchey]

I've got a weird gut feeling Ashton's going to score against NZ again.

Please no, I mean just look what would happen:

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/...beOq7jr7na0qShWAJLUaZv6mchoVj2aURlx0BavjHBYLm

Can we avoid that at all costs?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I've got a weird gut feeling Ashton's going to score against NZ again.

There's a chance.
He'll probably finish off a move started by Freddie/Danny, some great work by the centres, Ashton runs 2 metres and flops over the line and gets all the plaudits in the press, is made England captain and starts every game until he retires.

 

[Patchey]

The stuff of nightmares.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Well i will point out two weeks ago you were all slating Burns for daring to even tour, I defended his selection - and he had a blinder.

Not really... a couple of people were - but on the whole there was just a (very real) worry that he wouldn't be able to shake himself out of his form slump.
The fact that he had one of the worst falls from grace in recent memory and that playing him in the first test was a risk (which Lancaster even admitted) doesn't change now that he's played well.

 

[goodNumber10]

Not really... a couple of people were - but on the whole there was just a (very real) worry that he wouldn't be able to shake himself out of his form slump.
The fact that he had one of the worst falls from grace in recent memory and that playing him in the first test was a risk (which Lancaster even admitted) doesn't change now that he's played well.

Well the Burns thing was a comment made in jest, but now that we've headed down this route:

NICE BACK PEDDLING you lot!

You also said that Joel Tomkins would be in contention again to play for England (union) as he was not as bad as everyone said he was. Then he scurried back to league.

And i stand by those comments, just because he went back to league that doesn't somehow change my opinion or make me wrong - Sarries are on record saying they wanted him to stay, he's the one who wants to leave, so nothing really changes.

I have a feeling Tomkins would have been a better 12 than a 13, but if Tomkins stayed in union I maintain he would be back in the England camp.

but do we really want another Tomkins dicussion?

 

[Patchey]

We're back peddling almost as quickly as Joel Tompkins fell off all those tackles...

Yeah I went there.

(And no, we really don't need more Tompkins chat, unless it's about his younger brother who seems quite handy. I just couldn't help myself)