[2014 Mid-Year Tests] New Zealand vs England (3rd Test)

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I think from an English hookers perspective, Webber went really well but Hartley just doesn't seem to be contributing at the moment. I know he's not had much rugby but I thought he was very quiet in the 3rd test. I still thing Youngs is the best in the loose but seeing as he can't throw for love nor money, he can't possibly be picked.

Youngs can throw he had the highest or top throwing percentage in the league it is just something about England. His throwing was fine for England when he started and had Parling as caller.

 

[Larksea]

As long as Coltman can't throw he shouldn't be anywhere near the squad. I don't think we would even win a line out against SA with him throwing in. It's a shame cause he is good round the park. Harris lacks the grunt for international footy at this stage (he is like Coles was a few years ago). You can see why they are hanging onto Mealamu.

is his throwing any worse than Mealamu's right now?

Has Mealamu's throwing ever really been top shelf?

I wonder if there is an argument to Bring Ged Robinson in?

Or just bring Harris straight in, he seems like just a naturally good thrower but you never know...

 

[donmcdazzle]

is his throwing any worse than Mealamu's right now?

Has Mealamu's throwing ever really been top shelf?

I wonder if there is an argument to Bring Ged Robinson in?

Or just bring Harris straight in, he seems like just a naturally good thrower but you never know...

It's miles worse than Mealamu. We lost two lineouts with Mealamu on, but it had nothing to do with his throwing, more to do with him not actually throwing it! Mealamu's throwing has never been a huge issue like it is for Coltman, reminds me a bit of DeMalmanche in that regard.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I noticed when watching Coltman threw for the Highlanders that he has a high, slow arcing throw action. It does not look very technical, more like a compromise. At least the ABs lack of depth at hooker gives the rest of us hope; anything happens to Dane Coles and the ABs are buggered in that position if Coltman is reserve and throws like he does for the Highlanders.

 

[nickdnz]

It's miles worse than Mealamu. We lost two lineouts with Mealamu on, but it had nothing to do with his throwing, more to do with him not actually throwing it! Mealamu's throwing has never been a huge issue like it is for Coltman, reminds me a bit of DeMalmanche in that regard.

Except de Malmanche in my opinion was a far better player. He could have been a great player if he could only throw the ball in, as everything else he was superb at.

 

[easy2288]

Hooker has to become a big focus for NZ now. I guess it has been for some time but its all happened at training camps and and not as part of games.

Mealamu's poor performance was a big part of the All Blacks drop off in performance in the 2nd half. I think there were 3 scrum penalties given away, two lineouts given away as free kicks and I think 1 as not straight and lineout quality overall dropped. That is a heck of a lot of ball given away that Mealamu had a big part of. And its the kind of stuff you demand a 100 test hooker to get right, and in 2015, he's just going to be a year older.

I cant help but feel like the wrong hooker was out out to stud, I think I said it last year. Hore was in fantastic form last year when he started being phased out, he seemed to be getting better with age where the opposite has been happening with Mealamu. Hore seemed to have the ability to pull a big game out of the bag when needed where Kevin has not had anything more than a solid performance for a long time.

The bright side is that coles is now a genuine test player and very resilient. Have to give the coaches a pat on the back for that so far its been a success.

But we always needed more than one new hooker.

Its always famous last words but Coltman is going to be an all black, probably a long time All Black so why wait? You could argue that he's just really had a couple of slip ups that have prevented him cracking into the All Blacks? Being part of teh All Blacks squad can see impressive improvements in some young players. Just look at how Barrett and Piutau went? Retalick and Franks?

Harris has burst onto the scene from nowhere by virtue of simply having the best lineout throw going. He's useful around the park as well but the lineout throwing is a massive bonus. Chiefs getting something like 90% of their own ball with Harris throwing. And good quality ball as well.

Given the circumstances with Hore gone and Mealamu on the out a case could be made to bring them both into the squad proper and carry 3 hookers.

So far it seems Hansen doesn't like the idea of carrying 3 hookers. I think he prefers to have two that play week in week out and be in close contact with hookers that remain outside the squad so they get gametime for other teams to work on their game.

I think the ABs has a issue not only on the Hooker position but the whole front row. I think there is a issue with capable replacement for the whole front row, the two prop and the Hooker.

If Hansen still stick to Franks brothers and Tony Woodcock, I do not think ABs will be able win the next World Cup. He needs to give opportunities to others to play. No point getting them into the squad and sitting in reserves. Take for example Patrick Tuipulotu, the 3rd England match was a good time to bring him on. But he did not get the chance.

I watching the SA and Scotland match yesterday. The depth of the players the SA coach has is really great. He can in fact send 2 quality teams to the World Cup. Is about time Hansen wakes up and give the youngsters the necessary exposure. There are not too much time left

 

[first5eight]

Are you kidding? Are you really questioning the ABs depth across the park? I would say that we have the best depth of any international side out there. Bar hooker we have quality in every position.

FR: Franks x2, Woodcock, Faumina, Crockett

LOCKS: Whitelock, Rettalick, Romano, Tupoluti, Bird

LF: McCaw, Reid, Kaino, Messam, Vito, Caine, Luatua, Todd

HB: Smith, Weepu, Kerr Barlow, Perana, Ellis, Jimmy Cowan

5/8: Carter, Barrett, Cruden, Slade, Taylor

C: Nonu, Smith, SBW, Fekitoa, Crotty, Kahui

B Smith, Dagg, Jane, Savea, Piatau, Hosea Gear

Plus there are players in the domestic comp that could definitely step up and perform in the ABs environment.

 

[easy2288]

Are you kidding? Are you really questioning the ABs depth across the park? I would say that we have the best depth of any international side out there. Bar hooker we have quality in every position.

FR: Franks x2, Woodcock, Faumina, Crockett

LOCKS: Whitelock, Rettalick, Romano, Tupoluti, Bird

LF: McCaw, Reid, Kaino, Messam, Vito, Caine, Luatua, Todd

HB: Smith, Weepu, Kerr Barlow, Perana, Ellis, Jimmy Cowan

5/8: Carter, Barrett, Cruden, Slade, Taylor

C: Nonu, Smith, SBW, Fekitoa, Crotty, Kahui

B Smith, Dagg, Jane, Savea, Piatau, Hosea Gear

Plus there are players in the domestic comp that could definitely step up and perform in the ABs environment.

Please read carefully and don't jump the gun. I said the front row. The front row stays the same since last world cup 2011 that is, Ben Franks, Owen Franks, Tony Woodcock except John Afoa. Who has ABS introduced to the front row and given decent play time beside Charlie Faumuina. I cannot recalled this year Woodcock has a game close to 80 minutes and that includes Ben and Owen in the Super 15. What is the point of having depth as you claimed and not giving them the exposure!!!

I wish ABs could retain the ***le next year, but frankly I am doubtful due to the weakness unless the coaching team starting giving chances to rest...unfortunately there are not much time left.

 

[nickdnz]

Please read carefully and don't jump the gun. I said the front row. The front row stays the same since last world cup 2011 that is, Ben Franks, Owen Franks, Tony Woodcock except John Afoa. Who has ABS introduced to the front row and given decent play time beside Charlie Faumuina. I cannot recalled this year Woodcock has a game close to 80 minutes and that includes Ben and Owen in the Super 15. What is the point of having depth as you claimed and not giving them the exposure!!!

I wish ABs could retain the ***le next year, but frankly I am doubtful due to the weakness unless the coaching team starting giving chances to rest...unfortunately there are not much time left.

Wyatt Crockett has had plenty of game time...

 

[easy2288]

Wyatt Crockett has had plenty of game time...

Is Wyatt Crockett or Charlie Faumuina good enough? In the last 6 test matches played, Wyatt and Charlie only started one game (against the Irish). And coincidentally, ABs has to depend on a last minute try to draw the game and the conversion to win it. The last 3 matches was a good opportunity to start as least one of them because of the Home advantage but it did not happen. I can only conclude Hansen has no confidence in them yet.

Any thoughts??

 

[nickdnz]

Is Wyatt Crockett or Charlie Faumuina good enough? In the last 6 test matches played, Wyatt and Charlie only started one game (against the Irish). And coincidentally, ABs has to depend on a last minute try to draw the game and the conversion to win it. The last 3 matches was a good opportunity to start as least one of them because of the Home advantage but it did not happen. I can only conclude Hansen has no confidence in them yet.

Any thoughts??

Well, simply put if Hansen had no confidence in them, he would not have given them game time at all. Both Faumuina, Ben Franks and Wyatt Crockett have all had decent gametime last year. Woodcock and Franks are the incumbents and clearly the first choice props, but that is not to say. Personally I'm not a fan of Faumuina at all, he always seems to get shown up at scrum time, while Crockett is a bit of a penalty machine. That's not to say they're not rated by the coaches however.

 

[easy2288]

Well, simply put if Hansen had no confidence in them, he would not have given them game time at all. Both Faumuina, Ben Franks and Wyatt Crockett have all had decent gametime last year. Woodcock and Franks are the incumbents and clearly the first choice props, but that is not to say. Personally I'm not a fan of Faumuina at all, he always seems to get shown up at scrum time, while Crockett is a bit of a penalty machine. That's not to say they're not rated by the coaches however.

I am not a fan Faumuina and Crockett and I don't think both of them are good enough to step up to replace Franks and Woodcock at this moment. However I don't think Franks and Woodcock will be able to cope with the intensity in the next World cup.

As mentioned, earlier the front row will the ABS weakness area. Hooker is still salvageable..Coles is there...but I have huge doubts on the prop...

Joe Moody looks like a potential...