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[2014 Mid-Year Tests] New Zealand vs England (3rd Test)

Sorry... when have you ever seen him do anything remotely physical with ball in hand?
 
ratsapprentice said:
Sorry... when have you ever seen him do anything remotely physical with ball in hand?
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Patchey said:
Barkinghooker did. I don't think I've seen anyone but Robbie Freun bounce Savea.
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He's not saying Ashton will bump Savea, he's saying he doesnt care how many times he gets flattened by Savea. He wants Ashtons attacking skills in the team
 
This might be a stupid question but why isn't r freun playing for New Zealand? Everytime I have seen him, he plays superb. Am I missing something?
 
Couple of points here-
1. Ashton came on and scored a try, what else do you want from a winger who was on the pitch for hardly anytime ? I know people will say he just finished off a simple team move but if it's so simple then why don't our other wingers do it then ?
2. Ashton will NEVER bounce Savea.... EVER
3. People say he is just an average winger but when was the last time he blew a try ? Genuinely was at fault for not scoring, not just he didn't out pace this guy.
4. His diving is just ****ing ridiculous and there is no need. But i didn't see anyone slating Watson for his dive against the Crusaders in mid-week game.
5. I would have picked Foden for his high ball fielding
6. Anyone who says May hasn't done anything wrong for England <_< seriously
 
1 - In his last 5 games Ashton has scored 2 tries... In his last 4 games Yarde has scored 2 tries. Don't forget that Ashton had a 16 game try drought during which he played awfully and wasn't dropped.

3 - He blew his second try vs Argentina last year but the ref didn't see it and he nearly blew the other try he scored in that game.

4 - When Watson decides he has to dive after every single try he scores then he will be rightly lambasted for it.
 
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But what was point 2

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1 - In his last 5 games Ashton has scored 2 tries... In his last 4 games Yarde has scored 2 tries. Don't forget that Ashton had a 16 game try drought during which he played awfully and wasn't dropped.
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I haven't forget Ashtons ****ing terrible run of form that ment he should have been dropped ages before he did. But Ashton was part of a team that played **** all attacking rugby and the team Yarde has been part of has been one of the best attacking minded England team's in years.
3 - He blew his second try vs Argentina last year but the ref didn't see it and he nearly blew the other try he scored in that game.
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Indeed that was stupid but he still got the try.
 
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England attack slightly more these days. But it's mostly through midfield. Nearly all of our attacks come through 13 and 15. The wingers are still getting very few opportunities. Mainly because they are forced to stay on their wing and never venture away from it. For all their successes, the biggest failing of Lancaster's set-up, is that they cannot orchestrate the wingers in attack. That applies to May, Yarde, Ashton and any other winger England have had under the Lancaster era.

We can keep rotating our wingers for years and little would change. It's the coaches that need a talking to.
 
ratsapprentice said:
1 - In his last 5 games Ashton has scored 2 tries... In his last 4 games Yarde has scored 2 tries. Don't forget that Ashton had a 16 game try drought during which he played awfully and wasn't dropped.
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that's previous form though, why should that matter?

Either he's our best option or he isn't (arguable), previous form shouldn't count against him. If he is playing well he deserves his shot as does everyone.

ratsapprentice said:
3 - He blew his second try vs Argentina last year but the ref didn't see it and he nearly blew the other try he scored in that game.
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He only scored one try, or are we talking a different game, or do you mean he blew our second try?

The one where Imanhoff held him up? Which was excellent defence to be fair - and Amorosinos tap tackle was quality.

Should he have finished - yeah of course you would want him to finish it, but you've got to say that was great scramble defence by Argentina.


And lets be fair he was only playing because Yarde and Wade were injured because he was out of form.

Also where is point 2?
 
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goodNumber10 said:
that's previous form though, why should that matter?
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I'm pointing out the ludicrousness of a situation where one player who isn't scoring tries can play terribly for so long and be retained and then another winger plays decently showing reasonable improvements and is dropped.
He isn't our best option - he's a limited player who's strengths don't really play into the current gameplan.

You're right - my mistake he did only get one try - the one that he grounded after he slid out of touch... luckily the ref didn't refer it.
It was the earlier opportunity which he fluffed (19mins~ into the game).

Both of you have asked about "point 2"?
Are you asking my opinion of Saffycen's point 2?... if so then yes, I agree.
 
goodNumber10 said:
that's previous form though, why should that matter?

Either he's our best option or he isn't (arguable), previous form shouldn't count against him. If he is playing well he deserves his shot as does everyone.
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His try-scoring draught can be argued away as lack of form. But you cannot argue away his other limitations.

So he can run good support lines? What use is that to England when the wingers are fixed to their wings? Perhaps if he played fullback, that skill might be put to good use.

For Lancaster's England, Monye and Yarde would be the best options. If we had coaches that would use the wings in a proactive attacking manner, then Wade and Yarde/May/Rokoduguni would be the best picks. (Ashton's other flaws are not worth his attacking ability comparative to the other wingers.) For the most complete wingers, I'd take Yarde and May/Rokoduguni.
 
I can't speak for Saffy, but i was just taking the p*ss with my point 2 comment.

I get why your pointing out he played for so long, but as i said Yarde and co were injured. He was unlikely to have been playing if they'd been fit... Yarde, Wade, Foden all out IIRC.

So i don't think it's relevant, it was 7 months ago.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway, this is a marmite moment, and we could debate it for weeks on end. I just hope he scores a hatrick on sturday not to suss everyone out just because i want england to win.
 
TheSaffycen said:
4. His diving is just ****ing ridiculous and there is no need. But i didn't see anyone slating Watson for his dive against the Crusaders in mid-week game.
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I think the problem with the dive is that it appears he wants it to look 'flash'. Other dives are swallow in nature where the ball is protected. His dive the ball looks in damage of being lost from a knock or a slip.
 

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