[2014 EOYT] England v Samoa

[goodNumber10]

What does this mean..? Why wouldn't he play if fit?

Because as we all said before these games even started this was always going to be a game where they put out an altered line up regardless of peoples form - Ford was likely to play against Samoa, Youngs was likely to play against Samoa, Haskell or Clarke and so on...

Even if Eastmond had torn NZ and SA a new one he was likely to not play this weekend and come back in for Australia.

I'm surprised he's playing for Bath tbh, it's getting questioned on twitter a bit.

TBH I've ranted about Farrell coming straight back form injury into the squad and although his was longer, I do feel players should have a lower intensity game if available after injury before going back to internationals.

I would agree with this if Eastmond had been out for a few weeks.

Certainly the talk earlier int he week was he was standing down due to the knock, Bath twitter feed says somethign along the lines of "Englands Loss our gain", so not really sure what to think of it.

But like i said the starting line up was always likely to be different this week, so it's probably just that and Lancaster and co looking at their options with a world cup in mind.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Don't agree - Lancaster tends not to differentiate between opposition, partly for consistency and continuity and partly because the mentality he wants to install is one of respect for all opposition. I think he is playing his strongest team available this week, insofar as the changes he has made have been made because the players dropped were precisely those who performed poorly in all or some aspects: Vunipola, Care, Hartley, Wood... in fact everyone except Farrell! I don't think this is rotation for the hell of it, otherwise why isn't Mullan playing, or Kruis, or Brookes?

It also doesn't make sense to me in light of Ford, either, since the ideal way to give Ford gametime is alongside a familiar element in Eastmond.

 

[NamWarrior]

who'll be on kicking duties for england?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

who'll be on kicking duties for england?

Ford, I think - at least that's the impression I got from articles I've read.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I can understand Eastmond not playing for England - he would've been ruled out from training during the week, but then if he passed the protocols on Thursday/Friday back at Bath then he's good to go. England have to announce their 23/release players on Tuesday (is it?) and Eastmond is still on mandatory training break at that point.

Annoying to see Roko starting for Bath and not England, but for all we know it could've been the same situation - not fit enough on Tuesday/couldn't take the risk on him, so released him back. Hopefully we use him vs Aus if he comes through the Bath game with no knocks.

I agree with this - basically annoying, but a bit of a non-issue. Call has to be made on Tuesday, both players have since proved fitness (in Eastmond's case passed the concussion test), both can play for Bath.

Just looked at the line up and that leaves us with a hell of a good 10-15, not including 11

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I agree with this - basically annoying, but a bit of a non-issue. Call has to be made on Tuesday, both players have since proved fitness (in Eastmond's case passed the concussion test), both can play for Bath.

Just looked at the line up and that leaves us with a hell of a good 10-15, not including 11

I don't see what's so wrong with May, he's the sort of winger that you want to finish off a move after you've created space, not so much one to create something when he's already been closed down.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I don't see what's so wrong with May, he's the sort of winger that you want to finish off a move after you've created space, not so much one to create something when he's already been closed down.

Sorry, I was talking about the Bath backline ... far happier with that than the England one.

I also like May, we use him badly for England but he's shown two flashes of what he can do to score one and create one when we've got him into the 13 channel this autumn

 

[goodNumber10]

Vunipola, Care, Hartley, Wood...

I have a feeling all of them would have stood down anyway.

in fact everyone except Farrell!

&

It also doesn't make sense to me in light of Ford, either, since the ideal way to give Ford gametime is alongside a familiar element in Eastmond.

Again i think this 10/12 combo was always on the cards, they've talked about it since last January, and they played a few years together at U16/U18/U20.

I don't think this is rotation for the hell of it, otherwise why isn't Mullan playing, or Kruis, or Brookes?

Possibly because they are unlikely to feature in the World Cup.

I guess we'll just never know what Lanky is thinking.

Ford, I think - at least that's the impression I got from articles I've read.

same!

 

[tonydav58]

owen farrell selection

TBH the whole situation is a farce. Lancaster obviously doesn't know what his best team is so is sticking with "safe" players...Farrells selection at centre is an insult to Twelvetrees. Eastmond, Joseph etc Now we have two centres who cant beat a man or create openings ,although Brad is worth his place on his defence alone....be prepared to be bored stiff watching Ford and Farrell boot away possession... Back to normal England, well done,,just glad I haven't paid a shed load of dosh to go and watch.....great to see our best,most successful coach ever, sitting in the studio

 

[j'nuh]

I don't think it's rotation. Unlike all the other players that have lost a place, Eastmond is very green and is playing in an area of the squad with little cohesion. Unless there are tactical reasons to drop him, you'd think he'd be kept in the squad for as much game time between now and the WC.

The only thing I can think of is that Lancaster doesn't trust Ford as a goalkicker, so is trying to find a way of shoehorning Farrell into the backline. Since there isn't another reliable goalkicker in the squad, I would think this means that our combinations will be:
10. Ford 12. Farrell
or
10. Farrell 12. Eastmond/Barritt/Twelvetrees

If Ford does end up kicking the penalties, then there is absolutely no reason to picking Farrell in the centres, and I would lose any little bit of trust I had left in Lancaster's judgement.

 

[Irishkid]

This Farrell is a boring 10 but could be there to help Ford threw though hoping its a one off

 

[Peat]

I agree with this - basically annoying, but a bit of a non-issue. Call has to be made on Tuesday, both players have since proved fitness (in Eastmond's case passed the concussion test), both can play for Bath.

Just looked at the line up and that leaves us with a hell of a good 10-15, not including 11

Lawes and Hartley were retained despite having to undergo the same stand down for concussion. Since Lancaster is willing to gamble on fitness for players he wants to keep, I find it hard to escape the conclusion that the main reason he's not there is that Lancaster didn't want him.

Don't agree - Lancaster tends not to differentiate between opposition, partly for consistency and continuity and partly because the mentality he wants to install is one of respect for all opposition. I think he is playing his strongest team available this week, insofar as the changes he has made have been made because the players dropped were precisely those who performed poorly in all or some aspects: Vunipola, Care, Hartley, Wood... in fact everyone except Farrell! I don't think this is rotation for the hell of it, otherwise why isn't Mullan playing, or Kruis, or Brookes?

It also doesn't make sense to me in light of Ford, either, since the ideal way to give Ford gametime is alongside a familiar element in Eastmond.

Agreed. Brookes in particular should have started. He is now our third choice tighthead, which is to say he's going to the World Cup unless injured/losing form, and he's pretty likely to see gametime as second choice due to injury between now and then. I would state that there is also an uncomfortably high risk of Mullan being part of the squad. There doesn't seem to be a single underlying set of logical rules behind the picking of it.

A 12 who's still learning would be imo be a sensible choice to leave in the team in such a situation. But there we go.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I have no idea how Carrell and Ford will do at intl' level, but on front foot ball I bet they can do a job against 2nd tier opposition. If we went for a set piece pack with
1.Corbisiero 2.Webber 3.Wilson 4.Launchbury 5.Attwood 6.Ewers 7.Fraser 8.Haskell
16.Hartley 17.Marler 18.Coles 19. Lawes 20 .Vunipola

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't see the issue of Mullan being part of the RWC squad, and to be honest I'd take him over Mako at the moment(/at the last moment Mako was fit).

He's not as explosive a carrier as Mako, but he's a far better scrummager, and considering part of winning a world cup is being able to manage your players/rotate when needed, everyone is likely to get a start. I'd rather Mullan start a test than Mako.

I am, unashamedly, a big Mullan fan though - and I have scrummaging as top priority for my props (hence my long standing man love for Davey Wilson, and Vadim Cobilas, and disdain for Henry Thomas).

I think any other nation in the world bite your hand off to have a fourth choice loosehead as good as Mullan is.

I have no idea how Carrell and Ford will do at intl' level, but on front foot ball I bet they can do a job against 2nd tier opposition.

I hope you're right.
I do, however think, Ford is set up for a fall here. With Barritt and Farrell he doesn't particularly have any targets in the midfield in the game - both will run decent lines, but neither are really international standard attacking centres and I think the layman will blame Ford for the lack of attack, rather than the centres.
Also, though Samoa are a tier 2 side, the individual players are very very good - if they click then we could be in for a torrid time.
I don't think we'll trounce them, I think it'll be a lot close than a lot of predictions.
We'll win, but by <10, I think.

 

[Big Ewis]

so Census Johnston is starting for Samoa ay. England should have a happy day in the scrummy scrum.

 

[psychic duck]

I hope you're right.
I do, however think, Ford is set up for a fall here. With Barritt and Farrell he doesn't particularly have any targets in the midfield in the game - both will run decent lines, but neither are really international standard attacking centres and I think the layman will blame Ford for the lack of attack, rather than the centres.
Also, though Samoa are a tier 2 side, the individual players are very very good - if they click then we could be in for a torrid time.
I don't think we'll trounce them, I think it'll be a lot close than a lot of predictions.
We'll win, but by <10, I think.

Samoa have had internal issues though and been a shadow of their best the last 2 game, and although they say otherwise they've looked distracted. Unless the occasion of a sold out Twickenham brings out the best of them, they will have done very well to keep it that close.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I'm putting my cards in the table by declaring I am, following Olyy, a massive Mullan fan. He's a very busy player with a brain and good hands and athleticism which allow him to fit into a fast paced game. He's a good carrier close to the line, and has had lots of tight heads in toast this season.

He doesn't have the carrying of Mako, the scrummaging of Corbisiero or the haircuts of Marler but is quite good at all of it.

 

[Jaguares]

Will be Farrell the kicker, right?

 

[goodNumber10]

no ford is supposedly kicking.... i guess we'll see.

All the b*tching and moaning aside, i'm actually quite excited about this game, there is little to no reason for England to not go out and play some Rugby.

 

[Jaguares]

Where do you read that?