[2013 EOYT] New Zealand

[Bada-Bing!]

The squad is as follows:

Hookers
Dane Coles Wellington (11)
Andrew Hore Taranaki (81)
Keven Mealamu Auckland (108)

Props
Wyatt Crockett Canterbury (20)
Charlie Faumuina Auckland (14)
Ben Franks Hawke's Bay (29)
Owen Franks Canterbury (51)
Joe Moody Canterbury *
Tony Woodcock North Harbour (105)

Locks
Dominic Bird Canterbury *
Brodie Retallick Bay of Plenty (21)
Luke Romano Canterbury (15)
Jeremy Thrush Wellington (4)
Samuel Whitelock Canterbury (48)

Loose Forwards
Sam Cane Bay of Plenty (13)
Steven Luatua Auckland (8)
Richie McCaw - captain - Canterbury (120)
Liam Messam Waikato (26)
Kieran Read Canterbury (58)
Luke Whitelock Canterbury *

Halfbacks
Tawera Kerr-Barlow Waikato (11)
TJ Perenara Wellington *
Aaron Smith Manawatu (22)

First five-eighths
Beauden Barrett Taranaki (14)
Daniel Carter Canterbury (97)
Aaron Cruden Manawatu (26)
Tom Taylor Canterbury (2)

Midfielders
Ryan Crotty Canterbury (1)
Ma'a Nonu Wellington (85)
Francis Saili North Harbour (1)

Outside backs
Israel Dagg Hawke's Bay (35)
Frank Halai Counties Manukau *
Cory Jane Wellington (43)
Charles Piutau Auckland (7)
Julian Savea Wellington (18)
Ben Smith Otago (22)


The All Blacks selectors have also announced that an "apprentice" player will accompany the All Blacks on tour - 20-year-old Wellington loose forward Ardie Savea, the younger brother of All Black Julian Savea.

Source:http://www.allblacks.com/news/23647/All-Blacks-squad-for-AirNZ-European-Tour-and-Japan

 

[Darwin]

Hmm... I'm a bit underwhelmed with that that squad to be honest. It is not a bad squad (and largely predictable) - I was just hoping the selectors were going to be slightly more adventurous.

Anyways my $0.02:

Hookers:
Disappointed to see both the old men there again. Unfortunately they are still our best two hookers, but both are past their best. I'm still not convinced about Coles either - he has a good skill-set, but does lack a bit of physicality. I was hoping to see Coltman there, but to be fair neither he nor any other of the young hookers are really ready for test rugby. Indeed probably the next best hookers in the country are Flynn, Parsons, and Elliot, but the selectors don't seem that interested in any of them (Flynn is getting a bit older too).

Props:
Though I'm not yet convinced with Moody I'm interested to see how he goes given the chance. He hasn't had many chances at Super Rugby level, but he has been a key part of a devastating Canterbury scrum during the NPC, and seems to have a big work-rate. I'm disappointed that Ben Afeaki has missed out on the spot though - personally I would have had him ahead of either Moody or Ben Franks. Ben Franks is perhaps lucky to be included - I thought he actually had a pretty good season for the Canes at LH, but he seems to considered more a TH for the AB's, and his discipline is becoming a bit of an issue.

Locks:
Slightly surprising to see 5 locks picked (given Luatua can also cover lock), but I assume they wanted extra cover with Romano still coming back from injury and Bird having just returned from injury yesterday. It is great to see Bird included - he is a massive guy (2.06m) and isn't afraid to really throw his weight around. He is certainly an exciting prospect!

Loosies:
I usually can understand why selectors pick certain players. Sometimes, however, I am left baffled. Luke Whitelock. Really? What exactly had he done to warrant inclusion? I watched him very closely against Auckland yesterday (as I assumed I must be missing something). He did nothing. He was generally pretty accurate and had a solid work-rate, but that was it. Scrum.com stats showed he made a total of 1m with his 4 runs. That's right 1m. This isn't an anomaly either - he would be lucky if he has run much more than 100m with the ball all season for Canterbury (some loosies can run close to that in a single match!). He was completely overshadowed by his brother George (who was everywhere) and Nasi Manu (who actually made ground with ball in hand). Don't get me wrong - he didn't do anything wrong. He just didn't do anything to suggest he is anything other than a solid ITM Cup player.

Victor Vito on the other hand was outstanding for Wellington yesterday (as he has been all season), and Brad Shields wasn't far behind. How Whitelock got included over either of these two players is beyond me. Anyways... I will let it go I'm not convinced with the idea of an "apprentice player" either - for me you should either be in the squad or not.

Halfbacks:
Good to see Perenara back fit. Personally I would prefer him on the bench over Kerr-Barlow. I'm hoping Kerr-Barlow gets a start or two on tour to get a chance to show what he has got, as I feel he is far more effective starting than he is coming off the bench. Watching the Canterbury v Auckland semi yesterday I can't help but think the AB's got rid of Andy Ellis far too quickly. He was outstanding - it seemed every time he ran the ball he would make a break! Obviously he is no longer on the AB's selectors radar, I just feel he would be a far better option than Weepu (if the AB's want a more experienced option should one of the young three get injured).

First-fives:
As expected

Mid-field:
As expected. Happy to see both Crotty and Saili included, as they need to develop some genuine backups for Nonu and Smith (and having specialist midfielders is often a good idea).

Outside backs:
Interesting to see Halai included. He has had a very good season, but I'm still not 100% convinced with him (not sure why). There is no doubt he has the size and pace to be devastating at any level though!

 

[jessta]

Hmm... I'm a bit underwhelmed with that that squad to be honest. It is not a bad squad (and largely predictable) - I was just hoping the selectors were going to be slightly more adventurous.

Anyways my $0.02:

Hookers:
Disappointed to see both the old men there again. Unfortunately they are still our best two hookers, but both are past their best. I'm still not convinced about Coles either - he has a good skill-set, but does lack a bit of physicality. I was hoping to see Coltman there, but to be fair neither he nor any other of the young hookers are really ready for test rugby. Indeed probably the next best hookers in the country are Flynn, Parsons, and Elliot, but the selectors don't seem that interested in any of them (Flynn is getting a bit older too).

Props:
Though I'm not yet convinced with Moody I'm interested to see how he goes given the chance. He hasn't had many chances at Super Rugby level, but he has been a key part of a devastating Canterbury scrum during the NPC, and seems to have a big work-rate. I'm disappointed that Ben Afeaki has missed out on the spot though - personally I would have had him ahead of either Moody or Ben Franks. Ben Franks is perhaps lucky to be included - I thought he actually had a pretty good season for the Canes at LH, but he seems to considered more a TH for the AB's, and his discipline is becoming a bit of an issue.

Locks:
Slightly surprising to see 5 locks picked (given Luatua can also cover lock), but I assume they wanted extra cover with Romano still coming back from injury and Bird having just returned from injury yesterday. It is great to see Bird included - he is a massive guy (2.06m) and isn't afraid to really throw his weight around. He is certainly an exciting prospect!

Loosies:
I usually can understand why selectors pick certain players. Sometimes, however, I am left baffled. Luke Whitelock. Really? What exactly had he done to warrant inclusion? I watched him very closely against Auckland yesterday (as I assumed I must be missing something). He did nothing. He was generally pretty accurate and had a solid work-rate, but that was it. Scrum.com stats showed he made a total of 1m with his 4 runs. That's right 1m. This isn't an anomaly either - he would be lucky if he has run much more than 100m with the ball all season for Canterbury (some loosies can run close to that in a single match!). He was completely overshadowed by his brother George (who was everywhere) and Nasi Manu (who actually made ground with ball in hand). Don't get me wrong - he didn't do anything wrong. He just didn't do anything to suggest he is anything other than a solid ITM Cup player.

Victor Vito on the other hand was outstanding for Wellington yesterday (as he has been all season), and Brad Shields wasn't far behind. How Whitelock got included over either of these two players is beyond me. Anyways... I will let it go I'm not convinced with the idea of an "apprentice player" either - for me you should either be in the squad or not.

Halfbacks:
Good to see Perenara back fit. Personally I would prefer him on the bench over Kerr-Barlow. I'm hoping Kerr-Barlow gets a start or two on tour to get a chance to show what he has got, as I feel he is far more effective starting than he is coming off the bench. Watching the Canterbury v Auckland semi yesterday I can't help but think the AB's got rid of Andy Ellis far too quickly. He was outstanding - it seemed every time he ran the ball he would make a break! Obviously he is no longer on the AB's selectors radar, I just feel he would be a far better option than Weepu (if the AB's want a more experienced option should one of the young three get injured).

First-fives:
As expected

Mid-field:
As expected. Happy to see both Crotty and Saili included, as they need to develop some genuine backups for Nonu and Smith (and having specialist midfielders is often a good idea).

Outside backs:
Interesting to see Halai included. He has had a very good season, but I'm still not 100% convinced with him (not sure why). There is no doubt he has the size and pace to be devastating at any level though!

Not most exciting squad I agree, with not long to go until next worldcup youd think selectors would be more creative.
Joe moodys an interesting one, I think there are better young loosies going around like reg goodes, but ab selectors must really see some promise in him. Ben franks I thought would be sacked for afeaki too.
Kev and hore are still our best two hookers and are wel up for international level, but compared to bismark and strauss for the boks, hooker is concerning. Its the only position we are not worldclass. I also agree the ab selectors should look at more reasonably experienced hookers like matu'u, parsons, Mcdonald, eliot over the young raw hookers like coltman and marshall.
Think it would be unfair to drop thrush after hes come in and played pretty wel, hence his selection.
Luke whitelock is a whack call. Only reason his selection could be justified is tgat he captianed nz u20, otherwise I see nothing in him. Shields, vito, savea are miles ahead of him. Haha poor nasi manu one of the most underrated in the country.
In the backs no real surprises. Really rate crotty who like saili is equally handy at 12 and 13. Hes been a good player for a number of seasons and warrents selection. Probs against japan itl be him and saili in centers. Halai was one of the form winger in super rugby, and should be there for sure.

 

[Larksea]

All Black EOY tour squad

Forwards: Dane Coles, Andrew Hore, Keven Mealamu, Wyatt Crockett, Charlie Faumuina, Owen Franks, Ben Franks, Joe Moody, Tony Woodcock, Brodie Retallick, Jeremy Thrush, Dominic Bird, Luke Romano, Sam Whitelock, Sam Cane, Steven Luatua, Richie McCaw (captain), Liam Messam, Kieran Read, Luke Whitelock
Backs: Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Aaron Smith, TJ Perenara, Beauden Barrett, Aaron Cruden, Dan Carter, Tom Taylor, Ma'a Nonu, Ryan Crotty, Francis Saili, Israel Dagg, Frank Halai, Cory Jane, Charles Piutau, Julian Savea, Ben Smith.

Interesting squad,

I guess I get to say I told you so again re: Luke Whitelock seems im not the only one who thinks he has All Black potential.

He is without doubt the talking point of the squad. Seeing off the likes of Vito & Shields and even Luke Braid & Ardie Savea.

Perenara reclaims his spot and no room for Piri
hore stays on no young hooker which is a shame.
Bird is in as expected but thrush holds his place, with an extra lock being taken as Romano is still not 100%

its a massive squad, been a LONG time since we've had such a big squad. I think the AB's have some extra cash right now allowing for a bigger tour budget so this is becoming a genuine development tour rather than a world cup rehearsal.

 

[Jaguares]

Goodbye Piri Weepu!!!!!!!

 

[Darwin]

Not most exciting squad I agree, with not long to go until next worldcup youd think selectors would be more creative.
Joe moodys an interesting one, I think there are better young loosies going around like reg goodes, but ab selectors must really see some promise in him. Ben franks I thought would be sacked for afeaki too.
Kev and hore are still our best two hookers and are wel up for international level, but compared to bismark and strauss for the boks, hooker is concerning. Its the only position we are not worldclass. I also agree the ab selectors should look at more reasonably experienced hookers like matu'u, parsons, Mcdonald, eliot over the young raw hookers like coltman and marshall.
Think it would be unfair to drop thrush after hes come in and played pretty wel, hence his selection.
Luke whitelock is a whack call. Only reason his selection could be justified is tgat he captianed nz u20, otherwise I see nothing in him. Shields, vito, savea are miles ahead of him. Haha poor nasi manu one of the most underrated in the country.
In the backs no real surprises. Really rate crotty who like saili is equally handy at 12 and 13. Hes been a good player for a number of seasons and warrents selection. Probs against japan itl be him and saili in centers. Halai was one of the form winger in super rugby, and should be there for sure.

I was a little unsure on Moody when he was first called into the squad, but I have been very impressed with him for Canterbury over recent weeks. He looks technically a very good scrummager, and he really throws himself about. The AB's seem to have a pile of young talented TH props running around the country, but we are a bit short of young LH props. Reg Goodes is very mobile (and has some great handling skills!), but still struggles a lot at scrum time. He is capable of covering hooker too, which makes him an intriguing prospect, I just worry a bit about his lack of size at prop. John Schwalger has been preferred over him for Wellington, and I would imagine he would be ranked behind both Schwalger and Franks for the Canes next season, so I can't see him getting much game-time (unless there are a few injuries). Jeff Toomaga-Allen was (like Afeaki) pretty unlucky to miss out, but as I mentioned we have plenty of good TH's in the country at the moment. Toomaga-Allen has been the form TH during the NPC in my opinion - hopefully he can convert that into a strong Super Rugby season next year.

 

[William18]

Why take pleasure in the end of Weepu. TKB has been terrible every time he has come on for the AB's - takes all the momentum out of the attack.

As for Luke Whitelock - you can say I told you so when I actually see him play a good game of rugby. Until then, I'll maintain that he would definitely be on the bench if he played in Wellington.

 

[Darwin]

Why take pleasure in the end of Weepu. TKB has been terrible every time he has come on for the AB's - takes all the momentum out of the attack.

Yep, he reminds me of Piri Weepu in that respect

As for Luke Whitelock - you can say I told you so when I actually see him play a good game of rugby. Until then, I'll maintain that he would definitely be on the bench if he played in Wellington.

He probably would have spent most of the season on the bench for Canterbury too if Matt Todd was not injured....

 

[austingtir]

Forwards: Dane Coles, Andrew Hore, Keven Mealamu, Wyatt Crockett, Charlie Faumuina, Owen Franks, Ben Franks, Joe Moody, Tony Woodcock, Brodie Retallick, Jeremy Thrush, Dominic Bird, Luke Romano, Sam Whitelock, Sam Cane, Steven Luatua, Richie McCaw (captain), Liam Messam, Kieran Read, Luke Whitelock
Backs: Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Aaron Smith, TJ Perenara, Beauden Barrett, Aaron Cruden, Dan Carter, Tom Taylor, Ma'a Nonu, Ryan Crotty, Francis Saili, Israel Dagg, Frank Halai, Cory Jane, Charles Piutau, Julian Savea, Ben Smith.

Interesting squad,

I guess I get to say I told you so again re: Luke Whitelock seems im not the only one who thinks he has All Black potential.

He is without doubt the talking point of the squad. Seeing off the likes of Vito & Shields and even Luke Braid & Ardie Savea.

Perenara reclaims his spot and no room for Piri
hore stays on no young hooker which is a shame.
Bird is in as expected but thrush holds his place, with an extra lock being taken as Romano is still not 100%

its a massive squad, been a LONG time since we've had such a big squad. I think the AB's have some extra cash right now allowing for a bigger tour budget so this is becoming a genuine development tour rather than a world cup rehearsal.

They are taking Ardie savea as an "apprentice" so obvoiusly he wont see game time excellent decision by Hansen (if he doesnt have a huge super 15 next year and end up ahead of Matt Todd by the int season id be suprised). Taking Hore is a bit of a must if available as we need a genuine scrumaging hooker against a couple of these northern sides to simply win the games. All the rest of the Hookers available atm in NZ are rubbish.

 

[donmcdazzle]

I don't think I can remember anybody being less deserving of an all black place than Luke whitelock. As the guys above said he wouldn't have even started for his own team or some others if not for injury. He surely wouldn't have been chosen if he was playing for say, Bay of Plenty or Manawatu. What a joke. There is no way in hell he is better than Shields.

you can lump Joe Moody in with Whitelock too actually, what has he down to deserve his spot? These guys would never have been picked playing for other provinces, so annoying. Jeff Toomaga Allen for example has had a way better career thus far than Moody.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

I don't think I can remember anybody being less deserving of an all black place than Luke whitelock. As the guys above said he wouldn't have even started for his own team or some others if not for injury. He surely wouldn't have been chosen if he was playing for say, Bay of Plenty or Manawatu. What a joke. There is no way in hell he is better than Shields.

you can lump Joe Moody in with Whitelock too actually, what has he down to deserve his spot? These guys would never have been picked playing for other provinces, so annoying. Jeff Toomaga Allen for example has had a way better career thus far than Moody.

JTA is a tight head prop, Moody is a loosehead.

 

[Larksea]

Ardie Savea is pretty special that much is for sure.

Normally you would say its only a matter of time till he wears black.

7 is so strong in NZ now though,
McCaw obviously but you expect him to retire or start stepping away after the Next world cup.
Cane is now well and truly established, I mean he gets selected now even though he doesn't start in super rugby and every time he wears black he performs. Some of Canes rise has to be owed to Ian Foster, Cane has been a project of Fosters for a long time but its paid off and cane is now a deserved All Black without question.
Matt Todd I think has taken a step forward this year the small patches of game time he got he looked very good. I think if foster was not AB coach Todd would have been an all black regular in Canes place the last 2 years.
Then there is Luke Braid who could have easily been given a shot, or would have been a close option.
But Wait what about Latimer? Latimer keeps Cane on the bench at the chiefs and has been in the form of his carrier the last 2 years, you have to think its just age that has been his enemy, hes only 27 its not like hes ancient but I get the feeling he misses out because the All Blacks main goal is to devalop 7's that will be around for a long time after McCaw.

now Savea has shown up, 20 year old kid making major moves. Just complicates things.

The depth in NZ rugby is so great now that there will be just subtle things, small differences or skills/traits that players have that fit in with what the All Black selectors are looking for. And I think that is what we are seeing with the selections in the likes of Luke Whitelock and Joe Moody. I mean people will pick apart moodys selection but you can bet Mike Cron & Co. have analyzed and picked apart the finer details of his game and other contenders and moody has come out the best option - same story with Luke.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Except that Luke Whitelock doesn't actually do anything to an international level. He is a decent player, but no aspect of his game is even remotely near being all black level. Moody might be a sensational scrummager, in which case I can buy his selection. But I can't for the life of me see how Whitelock got chosen.

 

[William18]

Yep, he reminds me of Piri Weepu in that respect



He probably would have spent most of the season on the bench for Canterbury too if Matt Todd was not injured....

Maybe. Weepu is a bit slow because he is a bit slow. TKB is quicker than Weepu but takes so many wrong options. Weepu had a good Super Rugby season and didn't really let the All Blacks down in 2012. I don't see why he has been moved on. Even Ellis would be a huge improvement on TKB.

What really annoyed me about that post was that Weepu has been a loyal servant. 71 tests, played a crucial role in 2011 and never went overseas. I don't see what he has done to deserve people taking pleasure at the end of his international rugby career. I would like to say thank you Piri for all your years of service!

It's a bit like when Joe Rokocoko never made the AB's squad in 2011. Most people didn't want him in that squad. He was too old and too slow. I agreed with them. All that Joe got though was being left out of the squad and then slunked (I don't think that is a word but I'm using it) away overseas. No world cup, no glory. Our second highest ever try scorer was just forgotten about and I feel people have never given a second thought and realised that when he was in his prime he was probably only second to Lomu.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Kerr-Barlow isn't a viable bench option, I'd much rather have a combo of Smith/Perenara or Kerr-Barlow/Perenara than what we're using at the moment. Hopefully Kerr-Barlow might get a couple of starts on the tour to show his worth. He was the top halfback in Super Rugby this year, he just needs an opportunity to prove himself.

 

[Darwin]

I don't think I can remember anybody being less deserving of an all black place than Luke whitelock. As the guys above said he wouldn't have even started for his own team or some others if not for injury. He surely wouldn't have been chosen if he was playing for say, Bay of Plenty or Manawatu. What a joke. There is no way in hell he is better than Shields.

you can lump Joe Moody in with Whitelock too actually, what has he down to deserve his spot? These guys would never have been picked playing for other provinces, so annoying. Jeff Toomaga Allen for example has had a way better career thus far than Moody.

The key thing Moody has done is played in a position where we don't have much depth I would have thought Ben Franks was the third choice LH prop, but it appears the AB's selectors seem to consider him more as a TH who can cover LH (why I don't know...). I would agree Moody really hasn't done enough to make the AB's squad (I feel you need more than one strong NPC season to warrant inclusion), but what other LH prop warrants inclusion ahead of him? MackIntosh? Goodes? Schwalger? Manu? Prattley? McCartney? Perry? You can see we aren't exactly flush with quality options!

Personally my loose-head props would have been Crockett and Woodcock, with Ben Franks and Moody fighting out the third spot. Ben Franks is easily the better player - the only reason I would have considered Moody was because of Ben Franks habit of being overly aggressive.

On the tighthead I would have had Owen Franks and Faumuina, with Toomaga-Allen and Afeaki fighting for the 3rd spot. Afeaki would possibly have the inside running due to his better performances in Super Rugby, but Toomaga-Allen has been the form TH of the NPC in my opinion.

Kerr-Barlow isn't a viable bench option, I'd much rather have a combo of Smith/Perenara or Kerr-Barlow/Perenara than what we're using at the moment. Hopefully Kerr-Barlow might get a couple of starts on the tour to show his worth. He was the top halfback in Super Rugby this year, he just needs an opportunity to prove himself.

Yep, I agree. I suspect Kerr-Barlow will start vs Japan, but it will probably be his only start of the tour.

Maybe. Weepu is a bit slow because he is a bit slow. TKB is quicker than Weepu but takes so many wrong options. Weepu had a good Super Rugby season and didn't really let the All Blacks down in 2012. I don't see why he has been moved on. Even Ellis would be a huge improvement on TKB.

What really annoyed me about that post was that Weepu has been a loyal servant. 71 tests, played a crucial role in 2011 and never went overseas. I don't see what he has done to deserve people taking pleasure at the end of his international rugby career. I would like to say thank you Piri for all your years of service!

It's a bit like when Joe Rokocoko never made the AB's squad in 2011. Most people didn't want him in that squad. He was too old and too slow. I agreed with them. All that Joe got though was being left out of the squad and then slunked (I don't think that is a word but I'm using it) away overseas. No world cup, no glory. Our second highest ever try scorer was just forgotten about and I feel people have never given a second thought and realised that when he was in his prime he was probably only second to Lomu.

Weepu is also a bit slow because he deliberately slows the game down. He can be incredibly frustrating to watch at times. This sort of tactic is fine of you want to play "10 man rugby" (or the conditions are very poor), but his style of play doesn't suit the current AB's game-plan (which involves re-cycling and delivering the ball as quickly as possible...). Personally I don't get any pleasure in a players demise, but I don't think there is any room for sentiment in professional sport - if a player isn't good enough they should be playing I don't think this necessarily signals the end of Weepu's career in Black either - he is probably still next in line should one of the top 3 halfbacks get injured (though the selectors have shown some interest in Augustine Pulu).

 

[nickdnz]

I don't think I can remember anybody being less deserving of an all black place than Luke whitelock. As the guys above said he wouldn't have even started for his own team or some others if not for injury. He surely wouldn't have been chosen if he was playing for say, Bay of Plenty or Manawatu. What a joke. There is no way in hell he is better than Shields.

you can lump Joe Moody in with Whitelock too actually, what has he down to deserve his spot? These guys would never have been picked playing for other provinces, so annoying. Jeff Toomaga Allen for example has had a way better career thus far than Moody.

Agreed in regards to Whitelock. I'd have said Victor Vito (and maybe Ardie Savea) have been the players of the ITM Cup. Vito's stats are insane. I'm less convinced by Brad Shields than some - as his defensive awareness is sometimes pretty shoddy - you can see him rush out of the line and then have to backtrack to cover the gap (one of the reasons why I think he often misses tackles). But Vito has just been ridiculious. But no, instead Luke Whitelock...I mean he's not a bad player, but I would have him behind Vito, Savea, Todd, Braid, Shields and probably quite a few others who missed out.

That said I don't see why Joe Moody is there either. Plenty of better props. Admittedly most props seem to be TH props - but I actually think John Schwalger has looked good for Wellington (ok he may have just got injured) but Joe Moody? So strange.

Maybe. Weepu is a bit slow because he is a bit slow. TKB is quicker than Weepu but takes so many wrong options. Weepu had a good Super Rugby season and didn't really let the All Blacks down in 2012. I don't see why he has been moved on. Even Ellis would be a huge improvement on TKB.

What really annoyed me about that post was that Weepu has been a loyal servant. 71 tests, played a crucial role in 2011 and never went overseas. I don't see what he has done to deserve people taking pleasure at the end of his international rugby career. I would like to say thank you Piri for all your years of service!

It's a bit like when Joe Rokocoko never made the AB's squad in 2011. Most people didn't want him in that squad. He was too old and too slow. I agreed with them. All that Joe got though was being left out of the squad and then slunked (I don't think that is a word but I'm using it) away overseas. No world cup, no glory. Our second highest ever try scorer was just forgotten about and I feel people have never given a second thought and realised that when he was in his prime he was probably only second to Lomu.

I think TKB has looked awful for the All Blacks, every game. He just looks lost, stifles the attack and puts his team under pressure when he inevitably decides to run cause he was too slow to decide what to do with the ball. I hope TKB gets game time and pushes TKB out.

Agree in regards to Rokocoko (except I still think he is lightening quick, just have to watch the Lions vs Baabaa's game). He was pretty much told to increase his workload and become better under the high ball. He spent two seasons doing that - one finishing as SR's top try scorer and then having an average season in which he increased his workload massively. It's funny how people were praising Guildford for doing what Rokocoko was doing but worse - but got annoyed Rokocoko wasn't scoring insane tries anymore because he was clearing rucks in midfield...

Great to see Dominic Bird there - I think if him and Retallick start they'll be the tallest locking combination in the world and he is the only new Canterbury player who actually earned his spot.

ALSO Larksea: When we say it's ridiculous how over rated Luke Whitelock seems to be by selectors (keeping in mind he's been selected by the same people as part of development squads) and that he's worse than guys missing out - and he then gains selection to the All Blacks, it kind of only validates our point...

I said the same thing about Caleb Ralph though, so what do I know...

 

[Chikwa]

I don't think I can remember anybody being less deserving of an all black place than Luke whitelock. As the guys above said he wouldn't have even started for his own team or some others if not for injury. He surely wouldn't have been chosen if he was playing for say, Bay of Plenty or Manawatu. What a joke. There is no way in hell he is better than Shields.

you can lump Joe Moody in with Whitelock too actually, what has he down to deserve his spot? These guys would never have been picked playing for other provinces, so annoying. Jeff Toomaga Allen for example has had a way better career thus far than Moody.

13 crusaders selected and only 5 from the chiefs explains some of these baffling selections.With the World Cup around the corner I hope the likes of Luke white lock and joe moody are given sufficient game time and not cameo appearances on the tour otherwise we ll never know if they are good enough.I read in one of the threads above that scrum.com gave his(luke whitelock) running metres in the semi's as 1 metre.That is shocking for a new all black who is being noticed for his potential.It is one thing to stick with a proven performer like Israel Dagg despite a disappointing super rugby season but to pick novices who are not even performing above their peers at the NPC is baffling.So far Shag should be given a lot of credit for the outstanding results and performance of the AB's.If he however in 2015 takes a squad of players that includes several novices that have never made a mark at Super rugby level we will be in real trouble.Yes they may be exceptions to the rule like Sam Cane who generally plays second fiddle to Latimer.(I expect him to start for the Chiefs next season)

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

The thing that worries me is that Whitelock simply isn't going to get game time for the Crusaders next year unless injuries strike. With George Whitelock, McCaw and Read the incumbents, and Todd used off the bench, where does Luke Whitelock fit in? Sure he can cover lock, but with Romano, Bird and Sam Whitelock, why would he need to? Maybe if he moved to the Highlanders he'd get some game time, but as it stands he's not really going to progress, as far as I can see.

 

[austingtir]

As much as i would admit that TKB has been average on attack with the chances he's got. I would argue he's been a step or three above A Smith on Defence and on that alone he's worth keeping around atleast until TJ is up to scratch.

He deff takes the wrong options at times... i suspect he is under alot of pressure as the other headless chook that usually runs the show seem to get it right more often that not.

I still am not a A Smith fan I wont make any apologies for it so dont ask for them.

Also agree about Whitelock that guy is a waste of space in this team. On the other hand i reckon they cant be seen to be handing a 20 year old Ardie an easy ride.... look at the other pet project that turned to crap to see the end result of that.