[2013 EOYT] England

[Patchey]

I thought Ford was very bad against Sale. Very similar to his performances with the Tigers. He ignored gaps, made silly mistakes, and was weak in defence. He's shown his talent far more this season -or rather has had the chance to- but has also shown his inconsistency remains.



But it has to be factored into selection. Care has been behind a terrible pack (as the previously-mentioned Gloucester players have) so won't have been delivered cleaner ball from rucks against a retreating defence. Dickson has had the opposite. Youngs has had something in between and looked average.

Personally, I'd prefer the worse of Care and Youngs to be dropped for Dickson. He offers a different approach to bring on; similar to Burns and Farrell. With England's forwards having good engines, it'd be interesting to see an increase in tempo late in games to push the opposition. Think Burns on for Farrell, Dickson on for Youngs, and Eastmond on for Twelvetrees.

I havn't seen the weekends games yet (aparent from Tigers/Saints highlights) thanks to Premiership.tv being a pile of junk. If Ford was like that I stand corrected.

I really like Dickson as a player. You hit the hail on the head when you talk about him bringing a different approach, he seems much more focused to quick ball from the base of the ruck rather than either trying to snipe or taking a step from the ruck before passing.

 

[j'nuh]

Thinking of the 13 position, it would be tempting to have Twelvetrees/Eastmond in a kind of interchanging system. Both have skills that can work in the 13 channel. Eastmond can run lines off Twelvetrees, whereas Twelvetrees can do the same and bosh, and both have the distributing skills of a 12 to help the other out. Create synergy between the two by having them as roommates, get them to know each other inside out and comfortable enough to order each other around. Hopefully then they'll arrange each other in the backline according to the situation. If done right, it'll be a lot harder to defend/predict a couple of centres that will swap around each other.

 

[Peat]

Do we even know if Attwood will be fit?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ford is weird - very hit and miss.
Pre-Sale game they were talking up, an showing examples, of his ability to read the game, but then against us he scuppered two potential tries by not using his eyes. One of them he had a 4 on 1 outside him, and Rokoduguni could have strolled over the line, but he carried on with the pre-planned pop inside to Eastmond, who ran straight into three forwards.
His goal kicking is incredibly flaky as well. Kicking from hand is the best of any of the 10s in the EPS/Saxons, though. He's boss at that.

He has the potential, absolutely, but I don't think he's ready yet. Give him a season of first team rugby and then see where he's at.




I think Eastmond could be a very good 13, but I wouldn't consider him now. He'd need time playing there to learn the roll, and he's not gonna get that at Bath and I wouldn't want him learning how to play at outside centre while taking on the likes of Conrad Smith and Adam Ashley-Cooper, in the Autumn.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Do we even know if Attwood will be fit?

For the moment I would assume he will be.
It was a dislocated rib as far as I can tell, he was hardly writing around in pain after doing it and he played on for a couple of minutes after being checked by the physio.
It was the sort of injury that he probably would have played through had it been a cup final.
With a couple of weeks rest he should be good to go - I guess it then just comes down to whether Lancaster wants him to play.

He has the potential, absolutely, but I don't think he's ready yet. Give him a season of first team rugby and then see where he's at.

Definitely. It will also depend on how Burns/Farrell do too.

 

[Peat]

Ford is weird - very hit and miss.

Young players are inconsistent to begin with (as a rule), young fly-halves even more so. Ideally, you want the fly-half to learn that consistency somewhere else first - a lower level, the 12 shirt, the 15 shirt, where ever. I'd be really wary about promoting Ford before he's got that.

For the moment I would assume he will be.
It was a dislocated rib as far as I can tell, he was hardly writing around in pain after doing it and he played on for a couple of minutes after being checked by the physio.
It was the sort of injury that he probably would have played through had it been a cup final.
With a couple of weeks rest he should be good to go - I guess it then just comes down to whether Lancaster want's him to play.

Good, I really hope Lancaster does want to play him, his skillset and form should make him a shoo-in for the 23 at least.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Ben Kay's 15 (from the Mail):

15 Goode
14 Ashton
13 Joseph
12 Twelvetrees
11 Brown
10 Farrell
9 Ben Youngs
1 Mako Vunipola
2 Tom Youngs
3 Cole
4 Parling
5 Launchbury
6 Wood (capt)
7 Robshaw
8 Billy Vunipola

Dear god... that backline.

 

[Tony Manx]

Ben Kay's 15 (from the Mail):



Dear god... that backline.

Yes, I agree, but probably more in line with the way that Lancaster et al will be thinking?!!

 

[ratsapprentice]

I seriously hope not.
There really is no excuse for not playing two wingers.
And no reason (on current and past form) for Goode to be in the EPS at all.

 

[Patchey]

Ben Kay you were a cracking player but please stop being a pundit. That back line (and the lack of Corbs in the front row) is terrifying.

 

[Crapspray]

http://www.rfu.com/news/2013/october/news-articles/081013_england_kit_launch

Did they just add the armbands to claim it was new? Or am I ignorant of some tradition that means England must always look like they're in mourning?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It's because it's based on Yorkshire, much like the change kit is Lancashire.
Yorkshire flag with White rose on Blue background.

Doesn't really look blue, though, and yeah...it's just last years kit.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Just guessing here - but I think it'll look more blue under flood lights.

 

[Crapspray]

Thanks, at least there's some explanation. Hardly the same representation that the Lancs kit gets. Couldn't they have done the Yorks kit from the painting? Or a red crest with a white rose?

If they're going to use gimmicks, be consistently gimmicky.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Some interesting quotes from the kit launch today:

I'd also be happy going in with Matt Kvesic. If we do go with Chris, we' ve got that (captaincy) decision to make. But he hasn't done anything wrong as captain, that's for sure.

"The players have been told that they have to be good in all areas and have a point of difference in two areas.

'It's not been achieved yet, but certainly if you were picking now, Sam Dickinson would be there or thereabouts in the Saxons, in terms of the quality of his performances for Northampton. I'm hoping that if that was the case, there wouldn't be any objections because surely rugby decisions come first.'

'Luther has been the pick of the inside centres so far. He has shown what I knew since I'd coached him; he has better distribution than people give him credit for and a good defensive game now. One of the things I used to have talk to him about is consistency. But in all the games he' s played he's shown that which means he is a genuine contender now.'

 

[Maverick1987]

Some interesting quotes from the kit launch today:

whos quotes are these ? Lancasters ?

 

[Patchey]

So, if we're going to read a lot into Lancasters comments and Robshaw doesn't single handedly win both of Quin's European games then it looks like Kvesic at 7, Wood at 6 and with the armband and Burrell at 12 with Twelvetrees missing out mainly due to Glos not having a pack.

What was the context of him comments about Dickinson? Was he being asked whether he'd pick him off the back of his start to the season?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Yeah, about the difficulty of choosing the EPS before the season even starts, which means he can't bring players in just because they're in good form.

 

[Patchey]

Yeah, about the difficulty of choosing the EPS before the season even starts, which means he can't bring players in just because they're in good form.

Maybe he'll convince Rob Andrew et al to give him the free reign over selection that every other international coach enjoys.

 

[ratsapprentice]

To do that you'd need the RFU to buy the clubs! (which is what we've been discussing in the HC thread)

Another big positive this season has been Mako's scrummaging, he looks a lot more comfortable with the new laws.