England 6N 2016 - General Chit Chat

[Bada-Bing!]

http://www.ospreysrugby.com/Teams/Ospreys/Player/174107

Sam Underhill stats. 6 foot 1 and 103kgs or 16 stone 3 pounds, according to Ospreys website. So not quite the 6"3 110kgs previously quoted on here. But only 19 and still likely to fill out more when he hits his peak.

 

[Maverick1987]

I agree with this. Eddie chose a team to win the 6Ns and to start his reign with wins. But Robshaw and Haskell just won't take England forward and Australia will crucify us again at the breakdown if we play them both this summer. Personally, I still think or rather hope he'll go for a Launchbury, kruis, Itoje, Clifford, Vunipola back 5 v Australia.

I'd rather Launchbury go on the bench . The ABs don't show horn people in . We should be aiming for 23 world class players . We have Ewers to play 6 . My dream pack is

1. Marler
2. Hartley
3. Brookes
4. Itoje
5. Kruis
6. Ewers
7. Kvesic
8. Vunipola

16. George
17. Vunipola
18. Cole
19. Launchbury
20. Clifford (I'd like Underhill to come in here eventually)

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'd rather Launchbury go on the bench . The ABs don't show horn people in . We should be aiming for 23 world class players . We have Ewers to play 6 . My dream pack is

1. Marler
2. Hartley
3. Brookes
4. Itoje
5. Kruis
6. Ewers
7. Kvesic
8. Vunipola

16. George
17. Vunipola
18. Cole
19. Launchbury
20. Clifford (I'd like Underhill to come in here eventually)

Not really understanding all the love for Ewers & certainly think a back row with him and Billy would be horribly exposed against Pooper. Those 2 and Kvesic wouldn't offer much at the line out either. One day I'll write my diatribe on why Itoje should be our 6, but one of the reasons is that it would give us a much more aggressive line out.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Not really understanding all the love for Ewers & certainly think a back row with him and Billy would be horribly exposed against Pooper. Those 2 and Kvesic wouldn't offer much at the line out either. One day I'll write my diatribe on why Itoje should be our 6, but one of the reasons is that it would give us a much more aggressive line out.

I really like what Ewers brings at 6. The ball carrying and smashing ability of a South African style flanker. He's one of those X factor players like Billy V and Itoje.

I do understand the line out concern though with him and Billy as you need a 7 running off the line out quickly not jumping if possible.

Edit:

You get locks who are bigger and heavier than Ewers who are fine in the line out so no reason Ewers can't be a good jumper on second thought.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

Tend to agree...

Not really understanding all the love for Ewers & certainly think a back row with him and Billy would be horribly exposed against Pooper. Those 2 and Kvesic wouldn't offer much at the line out either. One day I'll write my diatribe on why Itoje should be our 6, but one of the reasons is that it would give us a much more aggressive line out.

Apart from the Itoje thing. He's a lock. He plays well with Kruis. He's better in that combination than anything Launchbury can bring.

As for Ewers. I've had an eye for a while and he's suited perhaps to a NH slug fest. He's reminds me of Lydiate which is no faint praise but as with him he's pretty one note. He's an out and out blindside killing machine as far as I can see. He's not "quick" and much of his work is done at close quarters. Hooper and Pocock spend plenty of time away from big lumpy breakdowns looking to attack the ball in less congested circumstances. Ewers won't be near enough to affect the outcome and I have similar concerns about Vunipola (but he has to play to carry). Leaving one 7 (or 6.5) to contest two world class operators? Death by turnover.

 

[Crapspray]

As for Ewers. I've had an eye for a while and he's suited perhaps to a NH slug fest. He's reminds me of Lydiate which is no faint praise but as with him he's pretty one note. He's an out and out blindside killing machine as far as I can see. He's not "quick" and much of his work is done at close quarters. Hooper and Pocock spend plenty of time away from big lumpy breakdowns looking to attack the ball in less congested circumstances. Ewers won't be near enough to affect the outcome and I have similar concerns about Vunipola (but he has to play to carry). Leaving one 7 (or 6.5) to contest two world class operators? Death by turnover.

Depends on how England play. Particularly against Ireland and Wales the forwards kept it very close to the breakdown and rarely went further than one off. Speed won't give the Aussie back row an unassailable advantage over five yards, and with Ewers and Binny England will be much more likely to be on the front foot if they keep it tight.

Speaking of the back row, Jones' interview in the Grauniad has a few interesting mentions: http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...tralia-tour-tests-six-nations-grand-slam-2016

"We have got to keep improving the team,” he says. “If we find better players, we will make changes. Take the back row: Chris Robshaw and James Haskell did a good job in the Six Nations, absolutely outstanding, and with Maro in the second row, I do not think pace will be an enormous issue."

“I want to see Jack Clifford go back to Harlequins and be a George Smith, showing he is ready for Test rugby. I see him as a 7 now, even though it is not his natural position, before moving to No8. Ultimately we will need a faster back row but we are being well served by the one we have."

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Don't like the sound of Haskell and Robshaw going forwards.
Slow, decent tackling (nothing special), average/below average at the break down and poor carrying.
Hopefully him considering Clifford as a 7 atm means he'll get a start there for England, or at least some decent time from the bench to prove himself

 

[ratsapprentice]

Sam Underhill stats. 6 foot 1 and 103kgs or 16 stone 3 pounds, according to Ospreys website. So not quite the 6"3 110kgs previously quoted on here. But only 19 and still likely to fill out more when he hits his peak.

Club websites are the least reliable source of info about player's physical stats, the ones I quoted are from the EPCR website... the truth is probably somewhere inbetween.

Ewers is certainly not slower than Robshaw, and Haskell isn't exactly quick either (he was when he was a good deal younger and lighter, but not now) - if that's the style of back row he wants to play, then Ewers is a significant improvement on either player, IMO. Robshaw took 2(?) lineouts in the entire 6N, something I'm sure Ewers is well capable of, if you want him to.

If you want a really fast back row then I can understand not wanting Ewers, but that also necessitates getting rid of both Robshaw and Haskell.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I really like what Ewers brings at 6. The ball carrying and smashing ability of a South African style flanker. He's one of those X factor players like Billy V and Itoje.

I do understand the line out concern though with him and Billy as you need a 7 running off the line out quickly not jumping if possible.

Edit:

You get locks who are bigger and heavier than Ewers who are fine in the line out so no reason Ewers can't be a good jumper on second thought.

But does Ewers have the mobility? Fine against the SA, but against the likes of Australia and NZ, who rely more on the mobility of their pack, he could struggle. I've no problem "shoe-horning" world class players into a team, as long as the team is "balanced". I suppose the downside of the Launchbury, Kruis, Itoje, Clifford, Binny back five is it is still reliant on Binny making the hard yards. It may then fall on picking Tuilagi at 12, which I think Jones is keen on to share the ball carrying load to get over the gain line.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Ewers is more mobile than Robshaw, Haskell isn't the most mobile guy either.

 

[Patchey]

Tom Wood is a pretty mobile back row. Heard good things...

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Tom Wood is a pretty mobile back row. Heard good things...

As a Saints fan, please no. Until he is playing better than Robshaw and Haskell for the experienced 6 shirt in the England camp.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Wood is mobile because he's lightweight, that's fine if you're someone like Croft where you are so mobile that you're just a different type of player, but he isn't... and I don't think that's the sort of player Eddie is after anyway.

Clifford, Underhill and Kvesic are all very "mobile" (quick and agile) but also very well built.

 

[Patchey]

Guuuuuys I was joking!!

Would agree on that list of mobile flanks though.

 

[j'nuh]

Or they look at the two in training and select the player they see as having less weaknesses for their desired plan.

I've no idea if they're getting it right, but the idea they're deliberately overlooking Kvesic while going "Hey, Hask, have a shirt, we don't care if you've got no hands and no brain" is probably not how it's happening.

This is my perception:

I think it was more about experience . I think we will see Eddie change things up now . Robshaw and Hask simply won't be fast enough in Australia on hard tracks . I expect to see a faster player in place of one of those 2 in the summer . Either way it's interesting/exciting times

Bear in mind that Jones had settled his mind on Hartley yonks before he'd seen him in training.

Whether Eddie will change it up though, not sure.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Manu had a good day with the stats playing mostly 12

98 Meters off 16 carries
7 Defenders beaten, 3 clean breaks
6 passes, 2 offloads and 1 Try assist

7 Tackles and 1 Turnover won.

 

[johnmac99]

Manu had a good day with the stats playing mostly 12

98 Meters off 16 carries
7 Defenders beaten, 3 clean breaks
6 passes, 2 offloads and 1 Try assist

7 Tackles and 1 Turnover won.

He had a much improved game today. Starting to look how we know he can be with those breaks.

 

[TommiG88]

I saw snippets of the game, Cipriani looked good. Probably have Burns picked over him though.

 

[Patchey]

Two things, firstly does anyone have any decent video / game recommendations to see Underhill in action? Haven't seen him outside of age grade.

Secondly, and I accidentally posted this on the wrong thread earlier...

Considering there has been some (not exactly unwarranted) chat about a replacement for Brown...

Who do you want to see at 15 long term

 

[stus768]

Two things, firstly does anyone have any decent video / game recommendations to see Underhill in action? Haven't seen him outside of age grade.

Secondly, and I accidentally posted this on the wrong thread earlier...

Considering there has been some (not exactly unwarranted) chat about a replacement for Brown...

Who do you want to see at 15 long term

Ospreys clermont he was very impressive I think. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M9zxdBgAljY

I see Watson as a long term replacement. Especially considering his ability in the air that he showed this six nations.