England 6N 2016 - General Chit Chat

[TRF_Olyy]

It's a shame that Daly moved to 13, full time, as him at 15 would be very interesting.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Two things, firstly does anyone have any decent video / game recommendations to see Underhill in action? Haven't seen him outside of age grade.

Clermont game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnUpOhGEmbY

Watson or Nowell to 15, probably Tony.

 

[Raggs]

Haskell can still lay claim to a decent turn of pace. He's not Clifford, but he's not Robshaw/Ewers either.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Maybe I am mad but I thought Ewers was a reasonably quick guy. The try he set up for Waldron against Newport showed a decent turn of pace, his power and an incredible piece of skill.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Haskell can still lay claim to a decent turn of pace. He's not Clifford, but he's not Robshaw/Ewers either.

Ewers isn't Robshaw either.

Haskell's pace isn't notable now that he's bigger IMO, he was very quick as a youngster though.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

It's a shame that Daly moved to 13, full time, as him at 15 would be very interesting.

Agreed, but for me it's Watson to 15 and sooner rather than later. He's good on the wing, but could be a real point of difference at 15.

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Ewers isn't Robshaw either.

Haskell's pace isn't notable now that he's bigger IMO, he was very quick as a youngster though.

There's quick and there's quick for a big bloke. What makes the real difference though is acceleration not top end speed and that's an attraction of Clifford over Ewers, Binny, Hask etc.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

Context gentlemen

I could have been clearer. I was talking about backrow pace in the context of hard grounds and Pocock and Hooper. For all the opprobrium heaped on mister Robshaw here he isn't "slow" but pace isn't a differentiator for him. If anything it's the fact he plays at reasonable pace for 80 minutes at decent intensity pretty much every game. Haskell isn't as fleet of foot as he was, something to do with carrying many more kilos of muscles around. Ewers isn't slow either but is he quick enough to counter wider breakdown operators? Not sure to be honest as there are very few playing in the premiership. Clifford however is noticeably rapid. Whether he was use that speed effectively is another thing altogether.

 

[Peat]

Am I the only skeptic about Watson at full-back? I'm not sure I trust his rugby IQ. For me, the full-back should be the smartest member of the back three (among other things).

 

[TheSaffycen]

I think it shows an athletic ability that neither Robshaw or Haskell can do. Clifford is a great runner, as is Kvesic.

Am I the only skeptic about Watson at full-back? I'm not sure I trust his rugby IQ. For me, the full-back should be the smartest member of the back three (among other things).

I have to be honest I've caught almost no prem action this year. How has he been for Bath? I've seen Goode and Brown, but Watson and Pennel have been touted by many. Is there good reason for this or just hype?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Am I the only skeptic about Watson at full-back? I'm not sure I trust his rugby IQ. For me, the full-back should be the smartest member of the back three (among other things).

Are you talking about positioning, decision making after taking a ball (i.e. run it back or kick to identified space?) and/or coming into the line on attack?

Pennell is probably the only guy who I'd say is notably better in this regard, but I also think he has the best, most rounded fundamentals of any of our FB options.

I certainly think Tony's "IQ" is better than Brown's... who's understanding is irrelevant so long as he tucks the ball and trucks it up.
He might as well be an NFL fullback (Which was exactly what we wanted when our attack needed it, but I think it needs something different now).

I think Watson's really improved his running from FB this year... he accelerates HARD into defences.

 

[j'nuh]

Am I the only skeptic about Watson at full-back? I'm not sure I trust his rugby IQ. For me, the full-back should be the smartest member of the back three (among other things).

Yeah, you're gonna have to define rugby IQ.

 

[Patchey]

Agree that Daly at 15 would have been interesting. But Wasps don't want that and Eddie seems happy for him to be a centre option who can be a versatile bench.

For me I'd really like Pennell to get a look. But then he is a bit of a pet player of mine!

Watson is surely an improvement in terms of 'IQ' on Brown, much as it pains me to say it. But that doesn't mean he isn't the best we could have in that regard.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Pennell is 29 next month, just not sure I would really want him now.

It's not like he has the Experiance already IMO.

Would rather Lewington got a look in.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I don't think Pennell has much of a chance, does Lewington play FB?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I don't think Pennell has much of a chance, does Lewington play FB?

Yep not regularly though.

Just felt he has more of a chance than Pennell.

 

[Maverick1987]

Yep not regularly though.

Just felt he has more of a chance than Pennell.

We effectively have 3 fullbacks at the moment though . I've been warming to the idea of Nowell playing FB and having Watson, Roko, Lewington and Yarde as the wings plus Watson would obviously cover FB . Although I'd be happy for Watson to play FB too

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

First time in a while that i find England's all round depth of players scary esp @ 26 and Under.

 

[Which Tyler]

We effectively have 3 fullbacks at the moment though . I've been warming to the idea of Nowell playing FB and having Watson, Roko, Lewington and Yarde as the wings plus Watson would obviously cover FB . Although I'd be happy for Watson to play FB too

I keep seeing this things about Nowell at FB; I've yet to see him actually play there.
Is it a bit like Slade being the answer to everyone's dreams at 12? despite about 140 minutes actually playing in that position... 3 years ago... and no proof that he can actually hack it at international level (OK, so Nowell has more than proven that one)?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Nowell played the majority of his first senior season at FB, winning the LV's breakthrough player award.

Did you not watch him in the u20's?

 

[Which Tyler]

Cheers - so before he appeared on my radar.
I don't really judge players by U20s TBH - Devoto was a FB there for example (same year as Nowell IIRC), Alex Goode was a FH etc etc; and many, many promising looking juniors have utterly failed to make an impact at Prem level. You get the odd one who I'll note as a name for the future - Nowell was never one of those for me.
Personally I look at Nowell and see basically everything I would want in an OC, but lacking a few things I'd want at FB or wing. I then see him fill-in at OC and think he looks born to play that position; and reach the conclusion that OC is probably his best position to maximise his potential (in terms of being the best rugby player that he can be) - which is what I always look for (Devoto IC, Itoje BSF, Slade IC etc). I'd rather competition for their club/country came secondary to that, though I'm well aware that that's far too idealistic for the real world.