Who do you think will be the new powers of world rugby in the coming decades?

[Peat]

The US probably have better youth systems in place now than Australia to be honest.

Do you have any proof for that? As that's a pretty big statement.

 

[Icemn]

Can't think of any instances either?

what ****** me off most about american sport is that they call the final series of a league, or tournament, the WORLD SERIES, yet it's just America competing in the tournament...

Cuz to American’s, they are the world call it patriotism, i call it arrogance and stupidity, but they got the cash... and if they invest it in 22 super humans from the NFL... we are too be dry butt fckd - pardon the graphics

 

[jkUNCAcap]

Can't think of many instances in sport where this has happened. Hockey?

I meant outside of sport and not necessarily 'dominating it' as much as saying ​that we 'dominated it.'

Edit: Icemn, not all of us are like that. I'm not saying I hate my country, but some people take their patriotism way too far.

 

[Big Ewis]

yeah. I don't buy the Canada thing. I like them, they're solid at times, but I don't see any colossal potential just waiting to explode onto the world scene...USA, I could see of course. But Canada's been playing at int'l level for decades, and it's not like they've shown any signs, no offense to any fans here (Little Guy, I'm just conversing here !).
USA as I was saying, that try against SA in 2007. Yeah, sure, one-hit wonder type play. But it's an underlying omen for big things to come. Obviously if they would stop playin their baseball, n NFL (not the NBA though !!! Keep playin bball !!) and focus a lil more and channel their talents efficiently; i.e. play int'l pro rugby in stead of semi-amateur on their national side...black guys they have there, and talent overall for sports...."yikes" !

Japan ?! Wtf ?! Same thing as Can. Always been there, no great potential to unfold really...why would someone think they would rise ?
Georgia, nahhhh..again, been there for decades. Unless they focus all their money and invest in that rugby side uhh...GEORGIA ?!

Russia ! Now THEY may become smt. They showed excellent athletes, long running legs, try scoring ability - and in their first RWC to date. The defense was terrible, and some fundamentals were lacking for sure. But you say "potential" and "rugby", yeah I'm thinkin Russia and the Eagles.

 

[psychic duck]

yeah. I don't buy the Canada thing. I like them, they're solid at times, but I don't see any colossal potential just waiting to explode onto the world scene...USA, I could see of course. But Canada's been playing at int'l level for decades, and it's not like they've shown any signs, no offense to any fans here (Little Guy, I'm just conversing here !).

Canada have shown signs of improvement these last couple of years actually. Before rugby went pro, Canada weren't great but were competitive and recorded wins over Italy, Argentina, Scotland, England, Wales, France. But when rugby did go pro, the top nations went flying ahead of nations like Canada and Romania and the rest of Tier 2 who got left behind. The 2003 RWC was the lowpoint for Tier 2 nations with really poor results. But since then, nations like Canada have been gradually getting to grips with professionalism and are improving their side to try and catch up with the nations who they could previously compete with but went flying ahead.

They have progressed these last couple of years, after a poor 2008, they have been rebuilding and can now get more respectable scorelines against Tier 1 nations, and made progress. If their scrum improved then they could even beat a couple of them.

Japan ?! Wtf ?! Same thing as Can. Always been there, no great potential to unfold really...why would someone think they would rise ?

Japan has something which no other nations has, they are hosting the RWC. Whilst improvement in their case, despite having better systems than some other Tier 2 nations, has been much slower than would have been hoped, that tournament is a big opportunity for rugby in the country. Of course, let's not expect it'll do miracles, it could have little impact at all, but it also could lead to much more interest and money into the game, who knows?

Georgia, nahhhh..again, been there for decades. Unless they focus all their money and invest in that rugby side uhh...GEORGIA ?!

Georgia only got IRB membership in 1992, and only made their first RWC appearance in 2003, so they have hardly "been there for decades".

Also they have gone from being knocked out of RWC qualification for 1995 by Poland, to beating Tonga but losing on aggregate in 1999 RWC qualification, to qualifying at a RWC in 2003 but getting thrashed and losing to Uruguay, to in 2007 RWC nearly beating Ireland and then dominating the ENC for the following years and being no pushover for Tier 1 nations a game in RWC 2011. That is progress in some relatively short time, and it obviously shows potential.

Also unlike all these other countries, rugby is actually quite popular, Georgia has the highest attendances of any Tier 2 nation and matches are shown on TV there, and if they get more opportunities in the future, then competition from other sports is less fierce than say USA, Japan, Russia or Canada.

Finally, Georgia is by no means as poor a nation like the Pacific Islanders as some like to say. Georgia wouldn't need to basically survive on IRB charity to play, and also the population is the same size as New Zealand, so although not a giant nation they are big enough to be able to be sustainable.

Russia ! Now THEY may become smt. They showed excellent athletes, long running legs, try scoring ability - and in their first RWC to date. The defense was terrible, and some fundamentals were lacking for sure. But you say "potential" and "rugby", yeah I'm thinkin Russia and the Eagles.

Again people are going completely overboard with Russia just based on a good back three they have. Also who has long running legs who you are thinking of? You're probably just basing that on one player Simplikevich, as nobody else in their side does, and you can't base a side just on one player.

To be honest, I would say the nation with the strong basics of scrummaging, defence would have more chance of succeeding and building on top of that. If you can't scrum, you're centres can't defend properly like Russia, then I would suggest they would be getting thrashed more than the latter. They are essentially a Sevens side playing Union at the minute. By the way Russia lost 46-0 to Georgia this year, and also 25-0 to Romania.

Also Russia gets just a few hundred spectators, and matches aren't shown on TV there, and they have a lot more competition from other sports.

Russia does have potential, but it is being severely overstated and other nations are in stronger positions.

 

[norcalbuff]

Good post PD, although to be fair Russia does have some positive developments like a pro league and they get to host the 7s RWC next year (which could be a disaster). But other than that, I just don't see them doing any real development in terms of crowds, age grade results and player numbers, all of which you'd think would be key indicators of progress.

Georgia has the forwards to compete but really needs to improve its backs. However it seems like they may have at least one player who will do that in Tamaz Mchedlizde who is a 19 year old center starting at 12 for Mont de Marsan in the Amlin Challenge Cup today. I think this might mark the first Georgian back to play for a top level club team (I know Mont de Marsan is likely to go down to Pro D2 next year), and at age 19 no less.

 

[profitius]

The problem for the USA is its size. Its too spread out. Rugby isn't like soccer, you can't just have a kick about anywhere. They also have a big population and lots of choice of athletes but so does England and France and as we see with them success depends on many factors with skill and technical ability being high up on the list. Canada and Russia are similar.

Smaller countrues are more likely to succeed. Georgia for example have embraced rugby and the government is behind them. They're bringing through their own players all the time although they need more expertise. They're producing lots of props because wrestling is a popular sport there.

A good indicator is to look at underage setups. Belgium might be a weak country in their tier but their underage teams have been going well.

Countries like Belgium, Spain, Netherlands, Germany etc have a great chance to succeed. They're western European countries and near the rugby hotspots. If they got their act together at all they'd have a great chance to grow the game.

Based on current movements and financial stability, and the major influx of pure talent from african shores to better playing opportunities, I would have to say:

Scotland and Ireland

Hilarious!

 

[profitius]

I'll probably run into a wall of disagreement here, but I think Ireland is the NH country best placed to get somewhere near NZ in terms of massive levels of involvement. Yes, it has to complete with football and GAA, but the former is for nancyboys and the latter runs on a summer season, so there can be room for both. The Irish populace is being presented with massive success on a domestic level - there's a real chance to grow the game, both in terms of support and participation. In terms of professional sportsman playing at home, it's the only game in town, which can be leveraged into first choice of the athletes. And the union currently has the best level of control over it's internationals of any NH country. With canny marketing, more success and an upswing for the national team, they've really got a chance to grab the support of a large chunk of the island imo.

It's a shame/good job that the IRFU have the New Lansdowne hanging around their necks like a milestone then, compounded by the fact that you have to ask if they'd recognise their arse from their elbow.

I hope you're right Peat. Rugby is growing but the big bottleneck is schools rugby. Theres only so many schools. The clubs are largely ignored but I think the powers have recognised more effort has to be put into the underage club players. Its going at a snails pace. For all Munsters success over the past decade, they're now battling with Connacht as the two weakest provinces at underage level. Connacht regularly win and have more players on the Ireland U20 teams sometimes despite Munster having a bigger population!

 

[Nielsch]

Spain.

First of all, the interest is there. Their matches in the ENC draw about 10.000 supporters to their somewhat simple stadium in Madrid. The game is hugely popular in the Basque Country and Catalonia. French clubs have filled major Spanish stadiums in those regions (San Sebastian and Barcelona).

Second, they neighbour one of the biggest rugby nations in the world; France. (Semi-)professional French players who don't make the French team but have Spanish (grand)parents are already starting to play for Spain. This especially concerns the French living in the south of the country, close to the Spanish border.

Third, their Test results are pretty good. Also, they are now a Sevens core team and have already beaten the likes of Wales at Sevens.

Fourth, they've got a decent national competition. The play-offs are even shown live on a professional television channel (Canal +). They have 27.500 registered players, which shows the sport is also popular at the grassroots level.

If the Spanish can get their acts together and present a more professional product to the market (professional stadium, better camera work, etc...) the product might appeal to many more people than it already does.

I see a bright future for Spain and I really hope they can qualify for the 2015 RWC.

 

[Toko_11]

Japan ?! Wtf ?! Same thing as Can. Always been there, no great potential to unfold really...why would someone think they would rise ? Georgia, nahhhh..again, been there for decades. Unless they focus all their money and invest in that rugby side uhh...GEORGIA ?!

Well that is just wrong for so many reasons!
1) I don't know why people think Georgia is a very poor and undeveloped country ? It might not be Holland but we are improving in all directions be it sports or economy.. Again Georgia is not one of those post soviet countries that seems to be stuck in 90's. everyone who has been here for past 5 years knows that it very much is like Europe now. The progress in the country can partially be cretdited for the Improvement in sports almost every sport especially rugby

2) for decades? May I remind you that Argentina needed more than 50 years to get where they are now ?! and other countries have played rugby forever... our national team was assambled in 1993 but didn't even have a training ground until late 90's and had to practice outside in the streets! As soon as they were given the most primitive support(one training ground) they qualified for the world cup! now stadiums are being built all over the country and we are even hosting IRB tournaments(not just hosting but doing it well!)..

3) and in Georgia you will never hear a horrid question that I keep hearing in the US and Russia.."What is rugby ?" in fact in small towns you have the whole population coming out to watch games

4)Please get your facts right before posting something that is really hard to read with a straight face if you know the truth about Georgia
TYVM

 

[Feicarsinn]

I hope you're right Peat. Rugby is growing but the big bottleneck is schools rugby. Theres only so many schools. The clubs are largely ignored but I think the powers have recognised more effort has to be put into the underage club players. Its going at a snails pace. For all Munsters success over the past decade, they're now battling with Connacht as the two weakest provinces at underage level. Connacht regularly win and have more players on the Ireland U20 teams sometimes despite Munster having a bigger population!

I think you're assigning Munster's problems to the rest of the country there tbf.

 

[rgman]

Venezuela could be... the orchids

 

[Superalexmarket]

Nice joke, dude!

 

[admartian]

I think we are all maybe overstating the States' ability to do well. Physicality only gets you a certain way, not the whole way home (see Spies, Lauaki, etc etc). If any of you guys ever watch the NFL, tackling (as in a proper form tackle) are rarely used. It's mainly Rugby league styled hits (to which I think the Yanks would dominate in the NRL/Super League).

Also, if you've ever put a pair of pads and helmets on - it's a great neutraliser.

Meaning it's effectively used as a bumping off point - harder to latch onto and tackle. Which leads to the ability to be able to barge through tacklers more effectively. Conversely, hence the complacency in tackling and going for NRL shoulder hits.

They'd still be a strong nation, but I doubt that they'd the most feared side - more that they could be on of the better sides (if they ever decided and conceded that there is a world sport worth putting effort into).....

Actually, I see world rugby being more like the NFL - where there are plenty of strong sides - parity - but still some sides whom you expect to win - but aren't necessarily surprised to see lose.

 

[norcalbuff]

There is a world sport that is more popular than rugby that we absolutely dominate via a combination of skill and superior athleticism. You might have heard of it: it's called basketball.

 

[admartian]

There is a world sport that is more popular than rugby that we absolutely dominate via a combination of skill and superior athleticism. You might have heard of it: it's called basketball.

**** I'm sorry, I must've stumbled into the wrong discussion...

Nope never mind, I'm fine, it is about rugby... *phew*

 

[norcalbuff]

You brought American football into the mix regarding athleticism and lack of skill and said we don't play any world sports. They are both laughable assertions.

 

[admartian]

You brought American football into the mix regarding athleticism and lack of skill and said we don't play any world sports. They are both laughable assertions.

:lol: Laughable? No one said you couldn't play world sport - and the lack of skill was misread.

Thanks though. Nothing was meant by it - if you're going to be that insecure (as evident by your reactions) then please try not to be on the internet.

Not being a smartass (or am I) - just a friendly suggestion.

 

[psychic duck]

Good post PD, although to be fair Russia does have some positive developments like a pro league and they get to host the 7s RWC next year (which could be a disaster). But other than that, I just don't see them doing any real development in terms of crowds, age grade results and player numbers, all of which you'd think would be key indicators of progress.

Georgia and Romania also have pro leagues.

In fact the Georgian champions beat the Russian champions, and the Romanian league is probably the strongest of all three.

The Russian U20 team lost 53-19 to Chile U20 this year, and 62-7 to Tonga. Their senior team lost 46-0 to Georgia and 25-0 to Romania. Those results show that other nations are much further ahead of them and they have a long way to go, they aren't even by any means guaranteed qualification for RWC 2015, especially considering Romania have improved in 2012 on their 2011 performance and Spain have improved thanks to their French players.

Georgia has the forwards to compete but really needs to improve its backs. However it seems like they may have at least one player who will do that in Tamaz Mchedlizde who is a 19 year old center starting at 12 for Mont de Marsan in the Amlin Challenge Cup today. I think this might mark the first Georgian back to play for a top level club team (I know Mont de Marsan is likely to go down to Pro D2 next year), and at age 19 no less.

Having good forwards is a great place to start for Georgia, once that is in place it allows the backs to be able to learn with a good platform and be able to play with more freedom. For the moment Georgia doesn't have impressive backs, but steps are being taken to try and improve this, notably by appointing a New Zealander to coach the side.

I'm not sure exactly how many Georgian backs have played in the Top 14, but Mchedlidzde isn't the first. A centre called Irakli Giorgadze played for 5 seasons in the Top 14/Heineken Cup/Amlin Challenge Cup for Bourgoin and Dax. Quite a few others have played in Pro D2. What Georgia really needs though is to get a fly half to play in Pro D2.

There is a world sport that is more popular than rugby that we absolutely dominate via a combination of skill and superior athleticism. You might have heard of it: it's called basketball.

How is basketball a world sport?

 

[SelimNiai]

How is basketball a world sport?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_men's_national_basketball_teams

Thats how.