When Pumas almost "eat" the Lions.

[Draggs]

Any team starting Ollie Smith is not something to be considered 'serious'.

New Zealanders bring it up more.



Golden genration is untrue it's just a term used because we'd had some terrible teams in the 90's before the "golden generation's" emergence but yeah they gave us a lot to talk about some fantastic players a Grand Slam, a number of triple crowns. and those wins against South Africa weren't to bad either.

Try a shitty 80s and 90s.
We've got a fuggin platinum generation

 

[psychic duck]

Any team starting Ollie Smith is not something to be considered 'serious'.

He was one of Clive's "bolters" for the tour. Smith (4 caps), ***terell (4 caps) and Sheridan (1 cap) at the time of selection were his surprise inclusions. The first two didn't get too many more caps but Sheridan had a pretty good career. 2009's "bolter" was Keith Earls.

 

[big ginger 8]

He was one of Clive's "bolters" for the tour. Smith (4 caps), ***terell (4 caps) and Sheridan (1 cap) at the time of selection were his surprise inclusions. The first two didn't get too many more caps but Sheridan had a pretty good career. 2009's "bolter" was Keith Earls.

And Halfpenny was he not.

 

[Draggs]

No, Halfpenny played in the 2009 Six Nations, starting three matches. (Six total by tour start, 3 in November 2008)
Earls only had two caps, only one start.

 

[big ginger 8]

No, Halfpenny played in the 2009 Six Nations, starting three matches. (Six total by tour start, 3 in November 2008)
Earls only had two caps, only one start.

So what do you classify as a bolter exactly?

 

[Draggs]

Somebody who isn't Welsh.
Every Welsh player is expected to tour, being full of talent and flair.
Any Welsh player that isn't selected for the Lions (and I mean any, even RFC or U12 players) are shunned.

 

[big ginger 8]

Somebody who isn't Welsh.
Every Welsh player is expected to tour, being full of talent and flair.
Any Welsh player that isn't selected for the Lions (and I mean any, even RFC or U12 players) are shunned.

OK was asking an honest question but ok. Fair enough.

 

[Draggs]

OK, honest answer, sorry mate

I'd say Halfpenny could be considered a bolter as well. He was one of our main starting wings (along with Mark Jones and Shane when uninjured) and had an increasing role with the Blues, so it wasn't entirely unexpected. I would consider a bolter someone who has less than half a dozen caps and fewer starts, perhaps a minor role in the most recent tournament. Say Madigan, if he were selected, I'd call him a bolter. Zebo? Maybe not, quite a few starts now and widely tipped to tour.

 

[psychic duck]

So what do you classify as a bolter exactly?

A young player not yet in their nations' first team starting lineup selected for the Lions.

Halfpenny had displaced Mark Jones in 2009 IIRC. Earls had his only start against Canada and didn't play much of the Irish Grand Slam.

One of the best surprise selections in recent memory is Will Greenwood. Aged 24, uncapped (the last uncapped player to tour), he was selected for the Lions tour. He didn't play in the Test matches, but still had a great tour and may have played had he not got pretty seriously injured on the tour. Afterwards he made his debut for England and went onto be one of the top centres in Europe and play a big role in England great period of 2001-2003.

 

[Patchey]

Ah Will Greenwood, absolute rugby hero...

Christian Wade has to be top contender to be a 'bolter' this year?

 

[ZeFrenchy]

What about Tom Biggs? That hair has to tour surely.

 

[Big Ewis]

Ey, Yoe...it's a shame do not continue playing the Latin Cup, remember? (France, Italy, Romania and Argentina)

ouf !....long time ago !...it makes sense to consider France "latin" given like 75% of our Rugby comes from the South (west mostly) where it's more...well, "latin".
It wouldn't be fair to Romania nowadays though ! You have 3 teams who have the potential of beating the Ozzies or even NZ on a good day against Romania, I think it really wouldn't make sense today !...

But I'm serious about this composite team thing...how awesome would that be, just for viewing pleasure and out of curiosity. And it would be a nice fair fight against say, the Lions (or NZ, why not) these days...a nice, cohesive unit of players who know each other and for a good part play in the same league...just makes perfect sense, would be fun...
but then, just imagine the horrible racism/race-oriented HAMMERING going on !

 

[Superalexmarket]

ouf !....long time ago !...it makes sense to consider France "latin" given like 75% of our Rugby comes from the South (west mostly) where it's more...well, "latin".
It wouldn't be fair to Romania nowadays though ! You have 3 teams who have the potential of beating the Ozzies or even NZ on a good day against Romania, I think it really wouldn't make sense today !...

But I'm serious about this composite team thing...how awesome would that be, just for viewing pleasure and out of curiosity. And it would be a nice fair fight against say, the Lions (or NZ, why not) these days...a nice, cohesive unit of players who know each other and for a good part play in the same league...just makes perfect sense, would be fun...
but then, just imagine the horrible racism/race-oriented HAMMERING going on !

Well, I think that the European powers of rugby must do a "mea culpa"(my fault) for the decadence of the Romanian rugby. The Romanian rugby is the orphan son of Europe.

 

[Thingimubob]

I always liked the idea of the Lions adding Argentina to their tour cycles, especially after this game! Only problem would be the midweek matches, is there any Argentinian club side who could stand up to the Lions? Maybe Pampas XV, but that's still more of a development team right?

 

[Superalexmarket]

There are very strong regional sides, Tucuman (defeated France in '92), Cordoba and Buenos Aires (defeated England in '90)are one of them.
But I do not think the Lions are really interested to visit the Arg, that team was made it to deal with the three southern powers, nothing more.

 

[sifplay]

...France could pull it off
nahhhhhhh...well, who knows.

Superalexmarket: thx for this thread, I'd read that score line, remembered Argentina had drawn with the Lions recently but I had no clue about the circumstances. First of all, at "home" for the Lions and they still almost lost this, damn...not even full strength argy side says Psychic ?...bad game for the Lions obviously, but 88th minute penalty that's just a fkn farce. The entire sports industry is rigged anyways, just a matter of it being obvious for us to ask ourselves the questions. Never heard of fkn minute 88, just wtf :lol:
oh well...

But more on about this composite team concept:
we've talked about it before, that it's the culture of the Lions etc...the history that binds them and all...but I'd srs love to see more of it. I honestly feel a France-Italy-Argentina is due at some point, Italian rugby owing so much to France (even have a French coach these days...), play in our league, a bunch of Argies in our league including some of the best like Lobbe, Hernandez...
A similar style, at least France and Argentina well even Italy this year can play a flashy, flamboyant style on attack, all 3 are traditional mammoths in the scrum and all 3 have similar DNA to produce incredible defense (all 3 against AUS and NZ, just to give recent 2012 examples...).

So I mean it's not just some ideological thing to unite all 3 nations there truly is a great deal of technical similarities and ties...I think it could create one massive unit, just imagine the scrums and the beautiful attack this could produce.


​

French flair is dead mate. It ain't coming back. Been coached out of them

 

[LittleGuy]

There are very strong regional sides, Tucuman (defeated France in '92), Cordoba and Buenos Aires (defeated England in '90)are one of them.
But I do not think the Lions are really interested to visit the Arg, that team was made it to deal with the three southern powers, nothing more.

There have been three tours of Argentina, in 1910, 1927 and 1936. I would love to see it, even if short a little on provincial sides for mid week games why not use some other America's national teams.

Argentina: Three Tests

Mid week and other matches:

Cordoba, Tucuman, Buenos Aires, Canada, United States, Uruguay(or Chile whoever is better at the time) and a South American XV.

 

[sifplay]

There have been three tours of Argentina, in 1910, 1927 and 1936. I would love to see it, even if short a little on provincial sides for mid week games why not use some other America's national teams.Argentina: Three TestsMid week and other matches:Cordoba, Tucuman, Buenos Aires, Canada, United States, Uruguay(or Chile whoever is better at the time) and a South American XV.

Problem is those were amateur era. The gap between professionals and amateur players have increased and mostly of the Argie league is amateurs.

 

[LittleGuy]

Problem is those were amateur era. The gap between professionals and amateur players have increased and mostly of the Argie league is amateurs.

This is a good point, but there are a few Argie players who are essentially semi-pro in the Jaguars and Pampas set ups, perhaps subbing in those sides for the regions would make sense. As well I think some sort of professional set up in Argentina is almost inevitable, and a tour of Argentina might not be something that is imminent but could be doable in perhaps 12-16 years.

 

[psychic duck]

ouf !....long time ago !...it makes sense to consider France "latin" given like 75% of our Rugby comes from the South (west mostly) where it's more...well, "latin".
It wouldn't be fair to Romania nowadays though ! You have 3 teams who have the potential of beating the Ozzies or even NZ on a good day against Romania, I think it really wouldn't make sense today !...

But I'm serious about this composite team thing...how awesome would that be, just for viewing pleasure and out of curiosity. And it would be a nice fair fight against say, the Lions (or NZ, why not) these days...a nice, cohesive unit of players who know each other and for a good part play in the same league...just makes perfect sense, would be fun...
but then, just imagine the horrible racism/race-oriented HAMMERING going on !

Since when did Italy have the potential of beating New Zealand?

Look at Italy's results against New Zealand and South Africa in the pro era.
http://stats.espnscrum.com/statsgur...eam=8;template=results;type=team;view=results
http://stats.espnscrum.com/statsgur...eam=5;template=results;type=team;view=results

And then compare that with Romania's against Italy.
http://stats.espnscrum.com/statsgur...am=20;template=results;type=team;view=results

Now tell me whether you still think that it makes any less sense Italy playing Romania than playing New Zealand despite never coming with in 14 points of them (of which was a complete reserve AB side that day).

This is a good point, but there are a few Argie players who are essentially semi-pro in the Jaguars and Pampas set ups, perhaps subbing in those sides for the regions would make sense. As well I think some sort of professional set up in Argentina is almost inevitable, and a tour of Argentina might not be something that is imminent but could be doable in perhaps 12-16 years.

As Melhor Time always used to point out. Australia has never had a pro-league of their own outside Super Rugby. In the 2001 tour some of the Lions opposition was pretty amateur. http://www.lionsrugby.com/history/results.php?includeref=9755&season=2000-2001#.UXIg9rWG3zk

If Argentina get teams playing in Super Rugby or somewhere they could be on a par with that of 2001. So yes, your 12-16 years is accurate estimation. I don't think a tour to Argentina would catch on though. Lions tours have only really worked due to the fact all of SANZAR have normally been better than the British Isles sides. In fact this is the first tour since 1989 when the tour hasn't coincidentally happened against the best side in the world at the time.

By the way, the elite Argentine based players despite not having pro clubs are professional now Little Guy. Some are officially (http://rugbyworldcup-argentina2023.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/uar-signs-10-players-on-professional.html), but the squad of the Pampas XV or Jaguars are all pro (except maybe those on the fringes of the squad) in that they play rugby for a living even if they are only technically semi-pro.