Wales vs South Africa

[willdragons123]

He only played because Bekker had an injury. He was not in the original squad. We also had numerous players who should have been there, including Francois Hougaard, Gerhard van den Heever, Duane Vermeulen and perhaps Sarel Pretorius. That would have made it a great second team. I call it third team because it's not even the strongest second string combination we could have had.

So yes. Victor Matfield played in our third team. Anything else?

So according to you Bekker would be in your 3rd team? Arguably when he had played he had been one of the form players of the Super 14 ?! Peter De Villiers I am not sure if you heard said no caps were just to see how they went but instead had won those caps on merit.... I am fairly certain that Peter De villiers has abteer idea of who is in his second team and has a chance to get on the plane to New Zealand. Many of those players yesterday were very experienced and before they left could have been regulars in the South Africa Team.

Victor Matfield doesn't in mine no.

But Januarie does, as does Kirchner, Ndungane, John Smit (played like an absolute tool yesterday, which is sad considering how brilliant he used to be), Chilliboy, Jannie Du Plessis, which I all think are crap.

So according to you John Smit is not even in your second team, when he a starter for the first choice? Zane Kirchner been on fire in the Super 14, except Ndungane all the others are regular benchwarmers so to be called 3rd team players is ridcuolus!

 

[Jer1cho]

So according to you Bekker would be in your 3rd team? Arguably when he had played he had been one of the form players of the Super 14 ?! Peter De Villiers I am not sure if you heard said no caps were just to see how they went but instead had won those caps on merit.... I am fairly certain that Peter De villiers has abteer idea of who is in his second team and has a chance to get on the plane to New Zealand. Many of those players yesterday were very experienced and before they left could have been regulars in the South Africa Team.




So according to you John Smit is not even in your second team, when he a starter for the first choice? Zane Kirchner been on fire in the Super 14, except Ndungane all the others are regular benchwarmers so to be called 3rd team players is ridcuolus!

I'm saying that there is a better choice of players we could have had, that are not regular starters for our first team. Zane Kirchner is ****, and always has been. On fire in the Super 14? Clearly you don't watch it then do you? So calling it a third team is a little excessive. But my point is, it's not the strongest second team we could have had. The team who played the provincial sides last year is a third team. I'm just saying that that's not the best second side we could have picked.

Also, don't say retarded things like 'I think Peter de Villiers has a better idea' because he picks players like Januarie, Earl Rose, Chilliboy Rallapele and Alistair Hargrieves. All of these players are second or third in line at their own Super14 franchises.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Don't agree with you about Phillips. I thought he was outstanding (save 2 passes). From what I saw, I didn't think it was his fault that the ball was slow from rucks, as he was either forced to clear out, or the ball was caught up in a tangle of players. I thought SA tacklers were quite lathargic at rolling away, which didn't help matters. There was also little to no protection offered to Phillips at ruck time either, and SA players were allowed to get to Phillips way to easily.

If he isn't allowed to take on the fringe defense now and again, then there's no point in having him on the pitch. It's what he's best at and it keeps the defense honest. I thought his decision making was generally fine. I'll re-watch the game tomorrow, but on first watching he generally suppled good ball to the backs.

How can you say Phillips played well? His passing was poor. The amount of balls Stephen Jones had to take above his head and pick of his toes was amazing. The fact also he never looked up and was not aware of his surroundings. You can blame the SA for not rolling away but at times the ball was there and available and ready for the Welsh backs but instead slowed the game right down. Also making sniping runs is all well and good when they are useful but yesterday majority were not. Also is box kicking was woeful, the entire point from them is to go high. When you say easily get to Phillips ... that was only because he took so much time to get rid of the ball the ruck became a mess. Was also not helped by Alan Lewis failing to referee the ruck area correctly.

I feel you've been a little generous to Stephen Jones aswell. His tactical kicking today was woefull. The first SA try can be put solely on his shoulders, as the forwards did a great job turning the ball over, just for him to hand it hack to SA on a plate! His coverign for their tird try was also very weak, just overran the player with the ball. I honestly think Biggar is playing better rugby at the moment, not that I'd drop Steve though, but I think 20mins for Biggar today could have had an impact.

Wow ... his kicking was pretty spot on he ran the Welsh defence and his kicking bar one or two was pretty spot on. He had to take a lot of ball on and he did it and did it correctly. You could argue he could have passed it out once but instead he took the ball into contact but the decision was correct. You can argue the point with me but from a coaching point of view and the many fans around yesterday we were pretty much in agreement that he did the right thing.

Can't understand your 9/10 for Mathew Rees! The bad lineout isn't his sole fault, but as one of the parts a little blaim must be put on his shoulders. Without a functioning lineout, were never gonna improve. Btw, Deiniol Jones was calling the lineouts today.

Sorry he did not have a poor game. Being a hooker myself I would have loved to have been so good as him yesterday. His throwing was good, his jumpers were the ones being it jumped. Go back and watch it, it was not Rees's fault. Wales became predictable in the calling of lineouts. People tend to blame the hooker constantly but im afraid you can't. Deiniol may have been calling but the lineout captain is JT!

I also think you may have got Adam Jones' performance a little wrong. He's not 100% imo. He started off well scrum time, but after 30mins the scrum was constantly wheeling with him going backwards. Wheather the Boks were wheeling delibriately or not I'm not sure, but Adam looked under pressure to me. The scrum improved when Yapp came on and James went to tighthead imo.

No sorry, Jones did a job on CJ VdL. He turned him everyway possible. Also a little note for you, playing at tighthead you are always under pressure because thats where all the pressure is in the scrum. I wonder if you watched the same game, he did an amazing job and you could see the relief that SA had when he came off.

I've been thinking about the backrow balance. Jon Thomas just isn't cutting it and Warberton has too much work to do. How about shifting Warberton over to 6, and bring Gavin Thomas on at 7. Gavin would give us some more physicality and another fetcher to help Warberton out. Gavin Thomas has been in fine form, and I think he offers more of what we need at the minute than McCusker, who offers pace and skill, but not too much brawn and ruck attributes. Thoughts?

Id play Warburton at 7 and McCusker at 6. If it fails then id go with Warburton at 6 and GT at 7.

 

[willdragons123]

I'm saying that there is a better choice of players we could have had, that are not regular starters for our first team. Zane Kirchner is ****, and always has been. On fire in the Super 14? Clearly you don't watch it then do you? So calling it a third team is a little excessive. But my point is, it's not the strongest second team we could have had. The team who played the provincial sides last year is a third team. I'm just saying that that's not the best second side we could have picked.

Also, don't say retarded things like 'I think Peter de Villiers has a better idea' because he picks players like Januarie, Earl Rose, Chilliboy Rallapele and Alistair Hargrieves. All of these players are second or third in line at their own Super14 franchises.

Mate you are obviously biased I have watched plenty of Super 14 this year and normally Zane is very assured under the high ball, goes forward more often than not, he scores tries and he ahs set up quite a few....Fair enough with Ricky not starting much for the stormers but match after match he is back up for Fourie De Preez in terms of South Africa... I have to say I did not even mention Earl Rose. I'm not sure if you have heard of it in South Africa but there is a thing such as blooding new players to widen your pool and also to give young players experience. So don't go calling me retarded when you can't see past the current game to see if it benefits the future!

Oh I no I should not mention Peter De Villiers,s till upset he got are we? Well I think he has done quite well, winning the Lions series nd the Tri Nations. You are basically saying he has no idea, any evidence to go back on? he ash gone through the ranks, winning ***les with you UNder 21 tean and the emerging springboks... Grow Up mate and try not be so oppiniated, just because Brian and Schalk are'nt playing it can't possibly be a good team. Don't mention Pierre not being there, "he is sucha beast" becasue he has done so nothing against the northerhemisphere teams.

 

[Jer1cho]

Mate you are obviously biased I have watched plenty of Super 14 this year and normally Zane is very assured under the high ball, goes forward more often than not, he scores tries and he ahs set up quite a few....Fair enough with Ricky not starting much for the stormers but match after match he is back up for Fourie De Preez in terms of South Africa... I have to say I did not even mention Earl Rose. I'm not sure if you have heard of it in South Africa but there is a thing such as blooding new players to widen your pool and also to give young players experience. So don't go calling me retarded when you can't see past the current game to see if it benefits the future!

Oh I no I should not mention Peter De Villiers,s till upset he got are we? Well I think he has done quite well, winning the Lions series nd the Tri Nations. You are basically saying he has no idea, any evidence to go back on? he ash gone through the ranks, winning ***les with you UNder 21 tean and the emerging springboks... Grow Up mate and try not be so oppiniated, just because Brian and Schalk are'nt playing it can't possibly be a good team. Don't mention Pierre not being there, "he is sucha beast" becasue he has done so nothing against the northerhemisphere teams.

Ok, clearly you know way more about South African rugby than i do. NH teams are the best, and Wales were beaten by our best possible team. Oh, and PdV is the best coach ever. Oh yes, i will also try to grow up, and Pierre Spies is absolute **** and overrated. Anything else?

 

[nickdnz]

Ok, clearly you know way more about South African rugby than i do. NH teams are the best, and Wales were beaten by our best possible team. Oh, and PdV is the best coach ever. Oh yes, i will also try to grow up, and Pierre Spies is absolute **** and overrated. Anything else?

At least you can admit your wrong Jer1cho
Nice arguing, Wilddragon123! It's good how you can tell a member with so many more posts, so much more respect, and a very good general insight to rugby in South Africa, to mind his opinions on the form of players and management. I'm sure his surrender will be testament to your many witty and profound posts you'll be adding to an all ready impressive post count of 7.

 

[Haysie]

Just remember Nick, only 3 more and he gets the roster editor

 

[TRF_Cymro]

At least you can admit your wrong Jer1cho
Nice arguing, Wilddragon123! It's good how you can tell a member with so many more posts, so much more respect, and a very good general insight to rugby in South Africa, to mind his opinions on the form of players and management. I'm sure his surrender will be testament to your many witty and profound posts you'll be adding to an all ready impressive post count of 7.

Pity Jer1chio edited his post so not everyone saw what he initially said.

And at times I find it hard to believe that people are blabbing on about respectability etc yet making these type of remarks are also showing a lack of respectability. Oh and just remember guys at one point you lot had 7 posts and remember we all got to start somewhere.

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion and we must respect that. What you got to realise that some people also know quite a bit about SH rugby which on this forums generally SH members tend to think that NH don't. It goes both ways, but I do generally think that SH need to see that NH do see a bit of SH rugby and CAN have an opinion on it.

 

[Boggle]

Me thinks Willdragons has a serious chip on his shoulder.

I'm sorry but we, being South Africans, and getting a lot more exposure to the players in this country generally know the pecking order.

In my opinion John Smit has completely lost it, ok he's not a crap player, but in terms of Hookers in this country we have at least 4 who are better than him.

Duane Vermeulen should be second choice #8 after Spies
Duvenhage, Kocket or francious hougaard as backup for Fourie Du Preez
There are a plethora of wings who should be there before Ndungane as well.

you don't believe Pieter De villiers can be a retarded coach ?
Look at what happened with the end of year tour in 2009.

It's not a horrible team, beating Wales in Cardif is testament to that I would guess, but I don't even see that as our best possible second string team.
If anything it's an indication of the fantastic depth we've got.

 

[Iron Mike]

Is Spies really that great? I watch him play yet I don't think he is that amazing, a brilliant athlete yes, but he doesn't do much in terms of rucking. I'd much rather have, 8 ) Schalk Burger 7) Juan Smith 6) Heinrich Brussow or atleast try it.

I just wish at times Spies would stop thinking he is a back and hit the rucks. I feel as though he is the weak link in the forward pack, yes he has a lot of pace, but he needs to get the balance between being a forward (doing your job) and busting through a tackle in the centre or out on the wing, which is often the case. Maybe he would be better suited playing at 12?

 

[Iron Mike]

He is my favorite player.



A third team, with one weak to prepare, and numerous players who had not even met until a week before, and it was an away game? They did a little better than average if you ask me...

A third team? You're kidding right? More like 1.5, they had what, three or four starting XV players, with another three being bench players (Janurie, Pienaar and Russouw). The original team was a 2nd string side, but when they bolstered it with Victor Matfield it changed things. Anyway, yes it was a pretty good performance, but comparing them to how they usually play it was pretty bad. Francois Steyn was ordinary, John Smit lazy and Jaque Fourie was no where. It was won by individual efforts, you can't deny that, no matter how long they have or have not been together, they are professional players and have no excuse, many of them have played with each other before.

 

[nickdnz]

Pity Jer1chio edited his post so not everyone saw what he initially said.

And at times I find it hard to believe that people are blabbing on about respectability etc yet making these type of remarks are also showing a lack of respectability. Oh and just remember guys at one point you lot had 7 posts and remember we all got to start somewhere.

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion and we must respect that. What you got to realise that some people also know quite a bit about SH rugby which on this forums generally SH members tend to think that NH don't. It goes both ways, but I do generally think that SH need to see that NH do see a bit of SH rugby and CAN have an opinion on it.

I have no problem with anyone starting somewhere, or even having conviction in their posts. What I do disagree with is people that can come onto the forum, and tell someone else to keep their opinions on players and management in check. While I perhaps came on a little strong, I do think comments like -

Grow Up mate and try not be so oppiniated

Are only inflammatory. The post count I mentioned had nothing to do with some kind of elitism, it is merely commenting on the amount of time you spend on a forum to criticise its members who contribute to the forum. In comparison to many members I have a very low post count. With that in mind, I wouldn't tell anyone to keep their opinions to themselves on anything to do with rugby.

Make sure you get right who deleted what post. I'm pretty sure I was the one who deleted an offencive post, as I realised while it was light hearted, it was too disrespectful. I thought Jer1cho handled that pretty well.

 

[Haysie]

Nick why are your messages in tiny font? It's been bugging me for ages

 

[nickdnz]

Nick why are your messages in tiny font? It's been bugging me for ages

They are? For me it seems like they're normal size :S.

Is this better?

 

[Jer1cho]

lol. People kept misunderstanding me. I said a third team is a littl excessive. With my goggles off its obviously a second team, and a pretty good one. I was merely saying that we could have fielded an even stronger second team, had the coach selected on form players. In case you were wondering, seeing as cymro pointed it out so nicely for us all, i called the guy a ********. But upon realising that this would just be pointless, and unnecessary, i took it out. He doesnt know me, but tells me to grow up? Wtf has that got to do with an opinion about rugby. I never said anyone up north knows nothing about sh rugby. But that guy does NOT know springbok rugby as well as i do. Then for shits and giggles, seeing my avatar and sig, he brings up that pierre spies is useless and has done noughi against the nh teams. Obviously he knows it will **** me off. So, even though i edited that post, i dont think i was too far off the mark.

 

[dullonien]

How can you say Phillips played well? His passing was poor. The amount of balls Stephen Jones had to take above his head and pick of his toes was amazing. The fact also he never looked up and was not aware of his surroundings. You can blame the SA for not rolling away but at times the ball was there and available and ready for the Welsh backs but instead slowed the game right down. Also making sniping runs is all well and good when they are useful but yesterday majority were not. Also is box kicking was woeful, the entire point from them is to go high. When you say easily get to Phillips ... that was only because he took so much time to get rid of the ball the ruck became a mess. Was also not helped by Alan Lewis failing to referee the ruck area correctly.

Probably gonna have to agree to disagree. His passing wasn't as good as normal, but I can honestly only remember two bad passes, one above Steve Jones' head and one behind Stephen Jones. The first bad pass is at ~56.40 on the iPlayer recording, the second at ~ 2.07.40. That's two to many, but every scrum half has off days with their passing. He's improved his passing no end over the last few years. Quick ball was got out as quick as possible all game by Phillips (re-watching the game now), it's just slow ball where the forwards were re-organising where Phillips didn't get it out straght away, nothing wrong with that imo.

As for box kicking, I'm not a massive fan of it, but he get's good distance (better than what Stev Jones get's from a further 15m back), and one of his almost resulted in a try for Warberton midway through the first half. Halfpenny was generally contesting for quite a few, but the Boks dealt with them well. I'm not sure why Wales have stopped using Byrne as a relieving kicker, pretty sure he only kicked once and it went a mile!

Still think Phillips had an excellent game on second viewing. He put two massive hits in. One of van Niekerk and another of Pontriger. I also haven't seen anything wrong with his sniping, generally made ground and it always keeps the defense honest as I said before, stopping them from automatically drifting out onto the ten. Still only the one bad pass in 65mins, and I've been specifically watching. 2hours 4 for an example of Phillips having to go into the ruck to secure the ball, meaning he couldn't be there to get the ball out.

Wow ... his kicking was pretty spot on he ran the Welsh defence and his kicking bar one or two was pretty spot on. He had to take a lot of ball on and he did it and did it correctly. You could argue he could have passed it out once but instead he took the ball into contact but the decision was correct. You can argue the point with me but from a coaching point of view and the many fans around yesterday we were pretty much in agreement that he did the right thing.

I'm at 67min of re-watching the game on iplayer. So far his kicking to post has been excellent, and continued being so for the entire match, just missed a conversion from the touchline. But he was the cause of that try I mentioned before, and one of his up and unders actually went backwards. I'm a big fan of Steve Jones, but gatland hasn't given any gametime to a backup 10 since Samoa in the Autumn. Biggar has improved hugely sinse then and I think can offer something to this team. Very little wrong with his performance in attack, took ball on when he needed and distributed well. Tackling was also good.

Sorry he did not have a poor game. Being a hooker myself I would have loved to have been so good as him yesterday. His throwing was good, his jumpers were the ones being it jumped. Go back and watch it, it was not Rees's fault. Wales became predictable in the calling of lineouts. People tend to blame the hooker constantly but im afraid you can't. Deiniol may have been calling but the lineout captain is JT!

Lineout wie. I do agree with you. The lineout calling was poor, as they continued going front or middle ball even though Matfield was just standing there ready to disrupt. I've seen Warberton used as an effective jumper for the Blues, and Ryan Jones used to be a good option at the tail, but I don't think either were used! But I'm always a little weary to blame one person for a poor lineout, overall as a unit it is just not working, so I'll include Mathew Rees in that. Afterall he must have some input into what happens and can offer his input during the match. Technically we had five capable jumpers on the field yesterday in Bradley, Deiniol, Jon Thomas, Warberton and Ryan. However they continually went to Bradley at the front even though Matfield was just standing there waiting.

No sorry, Jones did a job on CJ VdL. He turned him everyway possible. Also a little note for you, playing at tighthead you are always under pressure because thats where all the pressure is in the scrum. I wonder if you watched the same game, he did an amazing job and you could see the relief that SA had when he came off.

I feel Adam Jones is nowhere neer where he was before injury, and I'm just a little worried he's being played even though he's obviously got an ongoing problem with his ankle. he's the most important player in the Welsh game, and I don't want to see him risked if he's not properly fit. He hasn't recovered his fitness quite either, as he was definitely starting to walk around the pitch in the second half before going off. Gametime will only help with that though.

Id play Warburton at 7 and McCusker at 6. If it fails then id go with Warburton at 6 and GT at 7.

Yeh, I'd go with that. Gonna be a big ask for McCusker to get his first real taste of international rugby against NZ though. Worried we'll get out muscled at the breakdown again with a lightweight 6. However, McCusker is rapid, so he may well be able to get himself around the pitch and to the breakdowns quickly. Just hope Gatland well try someone other than Jonathan Thomas who's probably better suited to second row now or nothing atall.

 

[willdragons123]

lol. People kept misunderstanding me. I said a third team is a littl excessive. With my goggles off its obviously a second team, and a pretty good one. I was merely saying that we could have fielded an even stronger second team, had the coach selected on form players. In case you were wondering, seeing as cymro pointed it out so nicely for us all, i called the guy a ********. But upon realising that this would just be pointless, and unnecessary, i took it out. He doesnt know me, but tells me to grow up? Wtf has that got to do with an opinion about rugby. I never said anyone up north knows nothing about sh rugby. But that guy does NOT know springbok rugby as well as i do. Then for shits and giggles, seeing my avatar and sig, he brings up that pierre spies is useless and has done noughi against the nh teams. Obviously he knows it will **** me off. So, even though i edited that post, i dont think i was too far off the mark.

I would like to apologise mate, I only said about Pierre Spies as I was slightly offended by you calling me a retard. I am just slightly annoyed with the press and quite a lot of the public as a whole getting on Peter De Villiers back, I think it is unjust as he has not done much wrong and I believe you still are the favourites for the World Cup under his leadership. I admit it is likely I do not know spiringbok rugby as well as you do but I no more than you will give me credit for, I have lived in South Africa until recently. I don't think posts come into it either as I have been reading these forums for ages but felt compelled to reply after I read some comments. Though my comment about Pierre Spies was uncalled for I do belive what I said. No doubting he is a tank but I don't think he has turned it oon much against the NH teams..

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

Sat in the stand, I thought Lewis was awful, although I watched the game again shortly afterwards and he wasn't so bad. Entertaining game, Prydie, Davies, Rees and to a lesser extent, Hook where fantastic. However, much of the team didn't show up. I felt AWJ played very well after he came on, and Warburton was good, but he didn't get to the breakdown quick enough to be rated any higher.

 

[Iron Mike]

Why is everyone raving on about Prydie? Maybe I missed something, but his try was an easy one given to him by quick hands, all he had to do was put the ball down. He ****** up an up and under kick and regathered one bad pass. I really don't understand why everyone is saying he is the future of Wales, Leigh Halfpenny is much much better, a poor performance today but usually is excellent.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Why is everyone raving on about Prydie? Maybe I missed something, but his try was an easy one given to him by quick hands, all he had to do was put the ball down. He ****** up an up and under kick and regathered one bad pass. I really don't understand why everyone is saying he is the future of Wales, Leigh Halfpenny is much much better, a poor performance today but usually is excellent.

Well you obviously did not see the game yesterday. Prydie made some crucial tackles, covered well and his only blemish was a kick that he got slightly wrong and the bounce of the ball meant it went dead, other than that he looked good. Obviously does not rate to your amazingly high standards