Wales vs South Africa

[munstermuffin]

Just on that point shtove - I dont think Ryan Jones is captain material for Wales

 

[Thingimubob]

Ha! Well said shtove, I'm 17 and am already worrying about heart attacks when I watch Wales...

 

[Bluemoon]

Just got back from the game.

Far to many stupid mistakes cost us that game. If I am honest, I don't think SA even got out of second gear. They showed glimpses of what they can do but other than that were pretty average. They took advantage of welsh mistakes. Once Lee Byrne lost his head (again) with a few silly kicks and dropped balls we just seemed to implode.

If we make that many mistakes against a much much stronger all blacks side, we won't get close.

As I said at the end of the 6N, if we continue this stupid tactic of going blind until we are at full width to suck in players and allow depth I may actually cry. Its such an obvious ploy and people have worked it out. Gatland and Co are worrying me with their inability to change the game plan before its to late.

 

[dullonien]

Lineout looked to be going well first half, then matfield got into both Mathew Rees and the jumpers heads and it fell to pieces. We cannot expect to win games against the big three with a missfiring lineout, it's the most important set piece of all! Not sure if it's the jumpers or throwers fault, but Mat Rees did ok for the Lions, so I'd go for jumpers. We don't have an out and out jumper apart from Charteris (and even then he doesn't continue his club form at international). Jon Thomas ad Deiniol Jones were menna be in that side for their lineout specialties, hardly saw either win much ball! The ball we do win is either sloppy or front of the line banker ball which is rubbish to attack off! With decent off the top lineout, Roberts smashing midfield, then onto Hook, Byrne and our wingers we'd be lethal, but we can't even get a move like that going!

Our second area of concern is rucks. I felt SA disrupted us very well today. Our clearout was generally ok, but the ball was often stuck under legs, Phillips had to wait, then more SA players came flooding in slowing the ball down. Kancowsky was very good at this after coming on. I'm not sure if it was SA players not rolling away that was causing the ball to get stuck, but either way it needs imporving. Gethin is a big loss in this aspect, as he's usually one of the first to arrive and always clears the ruck well. We did concede way to many turnovers though. I don't think were commiting enough players to the ruck to protect the ball. Opposition players are free to come in and start going for the ball. Not committing players it fine when the ball comes back quickly, but as soon as it slows down we leave ourselves open for attack at the ruck.

Finally, silly penalties and mistakes. We generally caught the restarts well (think Jones dropped one), but we then went and gave away a couple of penalties and a try away after that. Hook probably tried a little too much leading up to de Jong's (sp?) try. Still not convinced he lost it though! Looked like it came back a second after he hit the ground.

I still feel we need to kick more for touch, instead of allowing teams of SA's callibre to continually run the ball back.

These are the areas that need imporvement. Our physicallity was mainly good, ruck time being the exception. Our backline can score tries with some decent ball and our forwards are making the yard in the tight. We're not far off, although the lineout is still a massive concern that's not gonna be fixed overnight.

Edit: Bluemood I didn't feel there was a problem with the gameplan today. When we had ball, we looked good. Gatland and co. can't do anything about players making stupid errors, wheather it be Lee Byrne missing touch, or knock on's. What is worrying me is the inability for Welsh rugby as a whole to sort out the mess we have at lineout. It's tough to blame Gatland and co. when the regions are no better. I feel we have the hookers, but lack lineout jumpers of adequate quality. Maybe Day and Reed need to be looked at from the Scarlets. Their lineout has been one of their better aspects of play this season!

 

[Jer1cho]

Quite an entertaining game. Francois Louw was superb. Stole so many balls! Wales seriously need to get some decent fetchers. They didn't steal any ball the entire game. Ryan Jones was crap. Warburten was good in open play, but did bugger all at the breakdowns. We won that contest hands down.

Nice too see the depth we have, and overall our defense was good. Two of Wales tries were from our own errors, the first being John Smit passing in slow-mo, and the second was Zane Kirchner showing again why i think he is a useless player.

Dewaldt potgieter was brilliant, and Danie Rossouw and victor Matfield schooled the Welsh second row.

I thought the referee was fantastic as well. Can't wait to see our first team in action!

 

[coonor]

Watched second half and I thought Wales should have been able to win this one, at Home with a strong side against a South African side without many key players. Hook played very well and was wales best player. Good match from what I saw. Wales were slowed down far to much at the break down and wales were asleep for some oparts of the game.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Wales' lack of clinical finishing really cost them today. The Boks clearly weren't on their game, just look at the amount of errors they made. That said, their defence was superb at times. They found a few gems out there today that will stand them in good stead heading into the tri nations.

As for Wales, Davies and Prydie were very impressive. Philips looked good as did Hook. They'll probably have a tough time down under, but not as tough as us anyway.

 

[dullonien]

Quite an entertaining game. Francois Louw was superb. Stole so many balls! Wales seriously need to get some decent fetchers. They didn't steal any ball the entire game. Ryan Jones was crap. Warburten was good in open play, but did bugger all at the breakdowns. We won that contest hands down.

Nice too see the depth we have, and overall our defense was good. Two of Wales tries were from our own errors, the first being John Smit passing in slow-mo, and the second was Zane Kirchner showing again why i think he is a useless player.

Dewaldt potgieter was brilliant, and Danie Rossouw and victor Matfield schooled the Welsh second row.

I thought the referee was fantastic as well. Can't wait to see our first team in action!

Yup, it's just unfair how many awesome fetchers and second rows South Africa produce. Every one that steps up would probably stroll into every Northern Hemesphere team.

Slightly disagree about Warberton. He claimed at least two turnovers I can remember. The problem is that whilst SA had a few players capable of turning ball over, Warberton was our sole fetcher. This is an area where Jon Thomas is extremely poor. He offered himself in attack as a ball carrier today, and worked hard, but doesn't turn-up much in the tight.

Same can be said of two of SA's tries aswell Jer1cho. Their first was down to a messed up lineout, followed by a poor clearance kick from Stephen Jones. Whilst de Jong's (sp?) try came from a soft turnover that should probably have been cleared down the pitch in the first place.

Agree, that SA's first team will be immense.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Been back about 2 hours now after the game has finished.

Just seen some of the posts and to be fair agree with them all. HOWEVER ... anyone who thinks Mike Phillips had a 'great' game is deluded. Im going to sort some stuff out and post my verdict on the game after.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

01 Paul James. 6/10. Scrummaged well and did well at line out time. Yet he offers nothing round the park in the way Gethin does. Rucking is good but he is not a ball carrier.
02 Mathew Rees. 9/10. Simply outstanding from the Welsh hooker, carried well, threw in well and was very prominent around the park.
03 Adam Jones. 8/10. Injury forced him off but he destroyed CJ Van Der Linde at scrum time. Made a couple of crucial tackles. Underlines that without him and Gethin Wales would without a doubt struggle. Also his small run during the first half was priceless.
04 Bradley Davies. 9/10. Work from the boiler man was outstanding today. Really showed he is coming of age. Tackled, ran well but needs some work on his lineout jumping.
05 Deiniol Jones. 5/10. Won ball in the lineout and that was pretty much it. Disappeared before eventually being subbed.
06 Jonathan Thomas. 4/10. Can't think what he currently offers Wales at 6. He carried ball and not very well. Stood out of rucks and generally was poor. He got beat in the air by Matfield for ball at lineout. Lineouts became to predictable and as lineout captain he needed to address it. Should have been subbed.
07 Sam Warburton. 8/10. A good start for Williams understudy. Made some superb jackles, tackles and breaks. Took a battering and did go MIA part way through second half. Reason? The same as what Martyn Williams faces when he is at 7 for Wales. Wales need a blindside who will work like a dog and add physicality. Something Thomas fails to offer Wales at 6. Was subbed purely for the fact he was battered up by the shear physicalness of the SA back row.
08 Ryan Jones. 6/10. Did the basics well. Needs to show some more inspiration at times on the park. Needs to find his form from some years ago. Only 5 or so caps away from beating Ieuan Evans record for most caps as Wales captain also. Yet his silly offside towards the end cost Wales a draw.

09 Mike Phillips. 6/10. Boy was poor. Yes he seems to offer himself as a physical 9 but today he was outstandingly poor. Decision making was very poor. to many times did he take the ball upon himself when the ball should have gone. His awareness was dreadful he never really looked up to see who was available. His slowness at the break down meant Wales had to over commit to rucks and in the end options were not there. I can't see how everyone here thinks he had a good game. He may of made a break or so but c'mon his service was dreadful and he read the game terribly.
10 Stephen Jones. 7/10. Standard from the man from the Scarlets. Kicked well, tackled well and did what he could with the ball he was given.
11 Tom Prydie. 8/10. Outstanding from the youngster and a real one for the future. Took his try well and made a solid tackle at the beginning of the game to get him some confidence. Without the tackle probably a poor game would have followed. Had the confidence to round a man but the kick was slightly off. Hopefully the media won't big him up to much over the coming summer.
12 Jamie Roberts. 8/10. SA centers struggled to contain him and he seems to love running at Bok centres. As one SA fan sat next to me commented 'Roberts loves eating our centers up!'.
13 James Hook. 8/10. Great vision for the intercept try. Kicked well and looks good at 13. Needed more ball though.
14 Leigh Halfpenny. 6/10. Donning a white scrum hat, some would think he would be the new Angle of the Wings. Sadly not that true. Had a quiet game today.
15 Lee Byrne. 5/10. Poor, looked weak under the high ball and when he took that penalty in a cocky manner you could sense an uneasy atmosphere towards him in the stadium and in particular where I was sitting. Needs his head bashing together and needs to get a grip. Has not shown his form since the Lions for Wales yet.

John Yapp. 7/10. Yapp at loosehead is a good option. Did well when he came on. Not a great replacement but does the job as third string loosehead.
Alun-Wyn Jones. 9/10. 3 Tackles in the 1st minuet he was on the park. Brought much needed fear and energy off the bench. Should have been brought on earlier. Took his try well from an outstanding piece of work from Warburton.
Rob McCusker. - Should have replaced Jon Thomas at half time.

Warren Gatland - Questions must be raised over Gatland and his use of subs and the game plan. Why have a bench when you don't use it. McCusker / Rees / Wyn-Jones should have been introduced earlier. He criticised players such as Jon Thomas in post match interview but yet did nothing to alter the gameplan or sub the players out.
Shaun Edwards - Defence was suspect when the game was broken up. Work needed in this area.
Rob Howley - Back play is generally good. When Phillips decides to release the ball quicker then the backs look dangerous.
Robin McBryde - Why is he even the Wales forwards coach. The forwards look weak and its time for Gatland to look at addressing the forwards. As a forwards coach why is he not seeing the lineouts as a problem? I tell you what Wales need to stop over complicating things and becoming predictable. Simple the better. Ospreys did this against Leinster and it was very good to watch.

Alan Lewis. I think he needs to go back and look at the rule book on a few things. Constant infringing at scrum time, off the ball ****les and many a knock on missed was both his fault and also his touch judges fault. IRB need to sort interpretations out of games quickly. The breakdown as ever was a farce, even more so when releasing the tackler was not being officiated! Adam Jones was penalised for this but yet it was a constant problem throughout the game. No doubt the SA fans will be saying that Lewis reffed well purely for the fact that they won the game. I doubt many would be in the same boat had SA lost.

 

[Iron Mike]

Quite an entertaining game. Francois Louw was superb. Stole so many balls! Wales seriously need to get some decent fetchers. They didn't steal any ball the entire game. Ryan Jones was crap. Warburten was good in open play, but did bugger all at the breakdowns. We won that contest hands down.

Nice too see the depth we have, and overall our defense was good. Two of Wales tries were from our own errors, the first being John Smit passing in slow-mo, and the second was Zane Kirchner showing again why i think he is a useless player.

Dewaldt potgieter was brilliant, and Danie Rossouw and victor Matfield schooled the Welsh second row.

I thought the referee was fantastic as well. Can't wait to see our first team in action!

Your man crush with Spies is freaking me out.

Boks were average, they were lucky to get a win, very lucky. Some individual good plays won it for them, forwards looked very weak and for a team to have had the most dominant scrum in the world two years ago have sharply fallen to a weakened Welsh front-row.

 

[MunsterMan]

Judging by your ratings Cymro, I'm guessing Wales won by a good 10-14 points?

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Judging by your ratings Cymro, I'm guessing Wales won by a good 10-14 points?

No think its about fair. There was some standouts and some not so.

Silly errors cost Wales today. A lot of poor handled affairs by the ref was also to blame. But ultimately the bucks stops with the Welsh coaching staff. The message Gatland sent out today that he has no faith in the Wales squad something he will need to change for Tour. He must have more faith that the bench can impact.

 

[dullonien]

Don't agree with you about Phillips. I thought he was outstanding (save 2 passes). From what I saw, I didn't think it was his fault that the ball was slow from rucks, as he was either forced to clear out, or the ball was caught up in a tangle of players. I thought SA tacklers were quite lathargic at rolling away, which didn't help matters. There was also little to no protection offered to Phillips at ruck time either, and SA players were allowed to get to Phillips way to easily.

If he isn't allowed to take on the fringe defense now and again, then there's no point in having him on the pitch. It's what he's best at and it keeps the defense honest. I thought his decision making was generally fine. I'll re-watch the game tomorrow, but on first watching he generally suppled good ball to the backs.

I feel you've been a little generous to Stephen Jones aswell. His tactical kicking today was woefull. The first SA try can be put solely on his shoulders, as the forwards did a great job turning the ball over, just for him to hand it hack to SA on a plate! His coverign for their tird try was also very weak, just overran the player with the ball. I honestly think Biggar is playing better rugby at the moment, not that I'd drop Steve though, but I think 20mins for Biggar today could have had an impact.

Can't understand your 9/10 for Mathew Rees! The bad lineout isn't his sole fault, but as one of the parts a little blaim must be put on his shoulders. Without a functioning lineout, were never gonna improve. Btw, Deiniol Jones was calling the lineouts today.

I also think you may have got Adam Jones' performance a little wrong. He's not 100% imo. He started off well scrum time, but after 30mins the scrum was constantly wheeling with him going backwards. Wheather the Boks were wheeling delibriately or not I'm not sure, but Adam looked under pressure to me. The scrum improved when Yapp came on and James went to tighthead imo.

Agree with the rest. Byrne didn't have a good game, and I think they need to stop giving him the touch finders. He's missed touch too many times for my liking this season. He doesn't have the same responsibility for the O's! His boot is just not accurate enough 100% of the time. A propper replacement is needed, because if he continues this form then he needs to be dropped really. But that's not gonna happen when there's no alternatives.

I've been thinking about the backrow balance. Jon Thomas just isn't cutting it and Warberton has too much work to do. How about shifting Warberton over to 6, and bring Gavin Thomas on at 7. Gavin would give us some more physicality and another fetcher to help Warberton out. Gavin Thomas has been in fine form, and I think he offers more of what we need at the minute than McCusker, who offers pace and skill, but not too much brawn and ruck attributes. Thoughts?

 

[Ozzay]

I was at the game, so i didn't really see the game in full, like i would on tele.
Firstly John Smit is a ******.

Anyway, weren't thrilled with the performance, Wales didn't seem to know what to do in certain areas, too many rucks were turned over, kicking was crap! everytime, Wales made a mistake they were punished. Jones loose kick to the small wing, Hook dancing nowhere in midfield etc. You could see the difference in quality down there big time, Wales kept putting high balls up on Steyn with no pressure on him at all, yet every SA high ball was competed for, these are basics!!

Same problems for Wales if you ask me, if too many people know their shirt is theirs and are not performing, The worrying thing is Gatland is sticking by these players too, why have a bench?

 

[Jer1cho]

Your man crush with Spies is freaking me out.

He is my favorite player.

Boks were average, they were lucky to get a win, very lucky. Some individual good plays won it for them, forwards looked very weak and for a team to have had the most dominant scrum in the world two years ago have sharply fallen to a weakened Welsh front-row.

A third team, with one weak to prepare, and numerous players who had not even met until a week before, and it was an away game? They did a little better than average if you ask me...

 

[Ozzay]

They didn't play well, but they didn't need too, they did the basics very well and captialised on Wales mistakes, you could see the quality difference in SAs play to Wales though.

 

[Wally]

He is my favorite player.



A third team, with one weak to prepare, and numerous players who had not even met until a week before, and it was an away game? They did a little better than average if you ask me...

Victor Matfield plays in your third team now does he? Pull your head out japie.

 

[Boggle]

Victor Matfield doesn't in mine no.

But Januarie does, as does Kirchner, Ndungane, John Smit (played like an absolute tool yesterday, which is sad considering how brilliant he used to be), Chilliboy, Jannie Du Plessis, which I all think are crap.
and in terms of players who are decent but not first choice you've obviously got Pienaar playing at fluhalf, Joe van Niekerk and Francois Steyn coming into the squad from over seas just flung into the game
(which I don't have a problem with, it just would have been nice if we had more than a week to prepare for this).

Plus, you know, playing away from home.

Seriously guys, in all fairness Wales should have trounced that team, stop calling SA on being lucky with the win, I think we did fantastic with what we got.

Our Loose trio was amazing, Center pairing was solid, even though Jacque fourie hardly got any ball, he made excellent catches and was great on defense, De Jonge had a fantastic proper first test cap.
Gio Aplon was on fire, made excellent chases, one or two brilliant breaks through the Welsh defense, and some very good tackles.

Apart from that Steyn was solid and Pienaar was solid, the rest were pretty meh.

 

[Jer1cho]

Victor Matfield plays in your third team now does he? Pull your head out japie.

He only played because Bekker had an injury. He was not in the original squad. We also had numerous players who should have been there, including Francois Hougaard, Gerhard van den Heever, Duane Vermeulen and perhaps Sarel Pretorius. That would have made it a great second team. I call it third team because it's not even the strongest second string combination we could have had.

So yes. Victor Matfield played in our third team. Anything else?