Wales vs England - 16/03/2013

[Zed]

Agree with all that.

Except that it was not so much Italy's defence that was impressive, only Flood's determination to only pass the ball to Manu.
Watch the game again, almost every single move from set-piece was one pass straight to Tuilagi.

Didin't watch the game, but I can see them doing that. A player of that calibre needs to be used more as a dummy runner, he will attract defenders like flies to ****.

 

[j'nuh]

Croft has exceptional pace:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Lt_douDyFc#t=2m21s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GM_6hFIpV4#t=28s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFHu6JCzrRM

Whether he still has it having had a serious injury recently, I'm not sure, someone else would probably be able to tell you that.

I doubt any Welsh forward beats Croft for speed, but I would certainly take them over Croft. Croft's a luxury - great for the expansive game if the rest of your pack gets through enough work. But losing a flanker to your backline isn't the best for tight games.

 

[Peat]

Watched plenty of Croft, and I honestly think his pace is exaggerated. For a forward he is exceptionally quick, but he's not the only one.

There will be quite a few players out on that pitch on Saturday who are quicker than Croft. From the English team I'd say Youngs is certainly quicker, and Tuilagi won't be far off.

In the Welsh backs, I'd back Halfpenny, North and Cuthbert up against him, as well as Davies. Like I said previously, Tipuric and Faletau are the two quickest Welsh qualified forwards and are well known for their pace. I would back both to keep up with Croft. Shingler will likely be on the bench, he's another who won't find Croft's pace troubling.

I'm struggling to find highlights that properly show off Croft's pace - plenty where he's clearly fast but none of that nose to tail chase stuff where it's easy to measure their speed - but this is a guy Aaron Mauger called the fastest back-row he's ever seen.

And I have seen and heard absolutely nothing to suggest Faletau or Tipuric are in the same speed division.

edit: j'nuh, 8 tackles in 30 minutes isn't enough work for you?

 

[Zed]

Looking at those videos he definitely has gas. He's not winger quick, but probably equivalent to someone like Barrit.

 

[dullonien]

One of Tipuric. Might not show his out and out pace, but shows he's no slouch, and has all the skills normally reserved for a back:



The first try in this clip shows that Faletau has pace too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdeD-LLePOE (won't allow me to embed 2 videos).

I can't find any videos, but some of the cover tackling by Faletau is consistently great as well, often tracking back against backs and not having much problem. I do admit though, that Croft does look a little quicker, but not by much.

 

[Peat]

I wouldn't say they were slouches, but when we're thinking of really, really fast back-rows - a category I'd put Croft in along with Ferris, Kankowski, Spies, Vito, Shingler, Radike, maybe Hooper - they don't register. Not to me, and not on those videos either. Not saying it isn't there - a lot of my estimation of Croft's pace is based on what people say rather than seminal moments, so maybe given a chance Tipuric/Faletau would show that - but I'd like some proof before sticking them up there. There's plenty of leaked info that Croft is off the scales for a back row in terms of pace.

 

[j'nuh]

Terrifying Wales-Scotland stat: Wales only missed 2 tackles.

The Wales front row terrifies me. Owens had a great 20 mins last game, was a tackling machine. Hibbard carries like a boss in the tight, and a James-Hibbard-Jones is probably the best scrummaging front row going. Worrying stat: Cole has given 8 penalties away. He's looked vulnerable in the scrum. Domingo and Healy both had him rattled. Paul James, if picked, could be an even bigger challenge.

Second row is a tight one. I think all 4 starting locks should be on the Lions plane. Tremendous work rate between them all.

Welsh back row - depends on what kind of Tipuric/Warburton show up. If the early 6N Warburton and the late 6N Tipuric show up, I'm not too worried. If the Scotland-game Warburton and the impact-off-the-bench Tipuric start, then f- this. England back row - happy with the work rate of Wood and Robshaw - tremendous rucking and tackling. England just need someone to make meters. Morgan being out has swung the game in Wales' favour imo, that's how much of a loss he is. Not just the backrow, but the whole balance of the pack is lost without him. We've got ball carriers to recycle in the tight, but no one who will make silly meters and who is a certain gainline breaker when standing at first receiver.

Won't talk so much about the backlines. Halfpenny's been the only back to particularly stand out in either. <_< England play to win the territory game and are clueless a few meters from the tryline, Wales are boshing all the time then kicking when it doesn't get anywhere.

Wales back 3: 31 tackles made, 3 missed.
England back 3: 36 tackles made, 14 missed.

Ashton: 15 tackles made, 8 missed.
Goode: 7 tackles made, 4 missed.

Looking forward to the pack duel. Predicting Wales to win a few penalties at the scrum, contact zone to be even, both teams to recover most of their own lineout balls, both teams playing tight (playing not to lose rather than to win) and no one making many carries way beyond the gainline (both operate blitz, few "big carriers").

 

[Zed]

Actually Bobby Skinstaad was pretty quick too. And Lawrence Dallagio - when he was younger. England U21 played WA U21 in Perth and Dallagio scored a try from his 22, beating the fullback for pace. He was pretty lean back then.

 

[jordiev]

is there any reason botica hasn't been considered atall for england yet... because im sure i read somewhere he is qualified because of his dad when he played here or something...?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He grew up in England so is qualified that way - however, I can't see him being capped unless there are a lot of injuries. Farrell, Burns, Flood and Ford are all ahead of him, and that's unlikely to change, I reckon.
If Churchill Cup was still on then he could be called to the Saxons, but as it stands I doubt hell make the EPS (barring two of our 10s making the lions, which wont happen).

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk 2

 

[Peat]

Growing up in a country does not qualify you actually iirc. Three years residency lapses the moment you leave the country. Neither does having a passport qualify you either.

edit: It's a shame he's not much of a defender or he could be a fantastic 12.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

England team to face Wales:

1. Marler
2. Youngs
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Parling
6. Croft
7. Robshaw
8. Wood

9. Youngs
10. Farrell
11. Brown
12. Barritt
13. Tuilagi
14. Ashton
15. Goode

16. Hartley
17. Wilson
18. Vunipola
19. Lawes
20. Haskell
21. Care
22. Flood
23. Twelvetrees

 

[Getofmeland]

Press Release

OWEN FARRELL returns to the England starting line-up for Saturday’s RBS 6 Nations ***le decider against Wales at the Millennium Stadium (5pm, live on BBC One).

The Saracen takes over at fly-half and will be joined at scrum-half by Ben Youngs, while Leicester Tigers team-mate Toby Flood and Danny Care (Harlequins) will be among the replacements.

There are two changes to the pack that started against Italy with Joe Marler (Harlequins) replacing Mako Vunipola (Saracens) at loose-head prop and Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers) starting at blindside flanker in place of James Haskell (London Wasps).

England Head Coach Stuart Lancaster said: “We have come a long way through the QBE series and the Six Nations and we want to finish well on what will be a fantastic occasion in Cardiff. It will be a great experience for our English team. Every single player, whether they are in the 23 or not this Saturday, has contributed to getting us in this position and they should be proud of that.

“The support of the country has been great throughout the tournament and I am sure they will be right behind us come 5 o'clock.â€

England (v Wales, Saturday, 5pm, Millennium Stadium, live on BBC One)
15. Alex Goode (Saracens, 10 caps)
14. Chris Ashton (Saracens, 33 caps)
13. Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 20 caps)
12. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 15 caps)
11. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 15 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 15 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 32 caps)

1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 9 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 8 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 39 caps)
4. Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 8 caps)
5. Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, 16 caps)
6. Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers, 37 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt, 16 caps)
8. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 17 caps)

Replacements
16. Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 46 caps)
17. David Wilson (Bath Rugby, 25 caps)
18. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 8 caps)
19. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 19 caps)
20. James Haskell (London Wasps, 49 caps)
21. Danny Care (Harlequins, 40 caps)
22. Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers, 56 caps)
23. Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 3 caps)
To watch Stuart Lancaster's interview on team selection visit rfu.com

 

[McTallshort]

Standby all the Croft bashers.....

 

[Big Ewis]

srsly, wouldn't it be better to see Croft at the wing ?...isn't he a complete waste at lock, and then not incredible either at flanker ?

 

[ratsapprentice]

People shouldn't be looking to our front for the source of our scrummaging issues, we don't have a good balance of second rows, they are all rangy "loose-head" type SR's.
For people who haven't played in the tight five or those that simply don't know: The front row is primarily responsible for stability (ie not collapsing or standing up and driving straight), the second row is responsible for the drive/forward movement.
In the modern game, if the second row is not strong enough the front row will likely collapse in stead of being driven back.

 

[McTallshort]

People shouldn't be looking to our front for the source of our scrummaging issues, we don't have a good balance of second rows, they are all rangy "loose-head" type SR's.
For people who haven't played in the tight five or those that simply don't know: The front row is primarily responsible for stability (ie not collapsing or standing up and driving straight), the second row is responsible for the drive/forward movement.
In the modern game, if the second row is not strong enough the front row will likely collapse in stead of being driven back.

Which is almost impossible with this stupid "hit" thing we have but that a different debate

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Obviously that's true to an extent, but surely your not saying that, given two 20 stone locks behind him, Marler would romp all over Adam Jones? I think we know that wouldn't happen. In any case, it's all very well having a powerful 8, but if your props can't control the point of attack then it won't do you any good at all. I do rather wish we had a Nick Wood or Alex Corbisiero for this game.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Which is almost impossible with this stupid "hit" thing we have but that a different debate

No doubt the hit definitely isn't as stable as the old-school engage. But I think the main issue is the change in mentality as to what the scrum is for, if you could encourage teams to think of it as a way of setting up a backs move from a restart instead of an opportunity to make the oppo concede penalty, and also revert to proper feeding/hooking then 90% of the issues would be sorted. Mainly because they would have to be more conservative in their initial hit for the hookers sake, and because there is an actual chance to win the ball against the head if they stay up.

Obviously that's true to an extent, but surely your not saying that, given two 20 stone locks behind him, Marler would romp all over Adam Jones?

Not romp all over him, I certainly don't think you would have to be so concerned over our competitiveness in that area were we to have at least one good scrummaging lock though.

 

[McTallshort]

No doubt the hit definitely isn't as stable as the old-school engage. But I think the main issue is the change in mentality as to what the scrum is for, if you could encourage teams to think of it as a way of setting up a backs move from a restart instead of an opportunity to make the oppo concede penalty, and also revert to proper feeding/hooking then 90% of the issues would be sorted. Mainly because they would have to be more conservative in their initial hit for the hookers sake, and because there is an actual chance to win the ball against the head if they stay up.

agree but then all that must be far too obvious because the IRB have not worked it out yet