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Wales v New Zealand

Did Lewis also overrule a huge foward pass that Kaplan had called toward the end, he seems to sacrifice consistency in favour of the spectacle. There were also a number of occasions when the Welsh backs where at least a metre or two offside in their rush defence, bit disapointing because it does ruin the game a bit as a spectacle when half the opposition team is playing in the other teams backline.

Shame about Powells shot and acting like the man afterward, that was not accidental like 99% of high tackles are nowdays, watching the replay that was malicious, 100% intentional and aimed directly at his jugular. Completely tarnished and ruined Wales last try for me, which otherwise would have been deserved as it was a gutsy performance.
 
terrible game, it was very jolty and sometimes the players would freeze in the middle of play, I don't think that's a tactic that will work in the world cup.
Kaino was awesome, Gear we need for his finishing, Mils was actually very good, SBW was MIA, he had a terrible game. Mealamu's throwing is still an issue and other contributions weren't as good as early in the year, Smith was pretty good, Toeava had flashes of brilliance but still tempered with handling errors and the like, Kaino was the only real shining light.
 
Wow ... simply wow ....

The attitude of some in this thread has just infuriated me and a lot of respect for some has gone down the drain.

I find it hard that some here cannot acknowledge how good Wales were, it's simply oh NZ did not turn up or such and such, the fact of the matter for 60 odd mins Wales lived and gave a game to NZ. Hard to imagine that Wales did so. Wales really gave a game upfront to NZ, the breakdown, however you want to put it Samrtcooky was a physical one and penalties could have been given to both sides. Scrummaging was once again Wales dominance and the constant hinging from Woodcock and Franks was a a sort of show of respect of how much they knew the Welsh scrum would be dominant. Lewis was not only poor for NZ but also to Wales, there is always two sides to the tale.

Were the game was won or lost was in the mistakes Wales made, missed tackles, poor kicking Byrne and Hook in particular and the fact we switched off after 65 mins. SBW MIA was down to the fact when they tackled him they covered his arms up to stop him offloading. Not going to lie but was hoping he would have a good game cause I wanted to witness it in person. The subbing of Ryan Jones was also a key moment for me. Jones had played well up to that point and carried and tackled well. When JT came on he made so many defensive errors it was untrue, I pointed this out to the old man and some of the debentures around me agreed.

What separates NZ to any side is that, if you make mistakes, NZ make sure they capitalise on it and punish you for the mistakes made.

On a sidenote, it was marvellous to hear a minute silence observed to the max, the silence was a real show of respect to the lost at the mine in NZ. Something I wished the South African fans would have done during the min silence for Remembrance Day.

Onto the nasty stuff, McCaw got wiped first half as Wales cleared him out, yet come second half it changed, McCaw penetrated this and was cool about his work at the breakdown and found ways to turnover the ball ... legally I may say. What was disgusting was Powell's hit, cynical and unprofessional, but can I remind people Powell is not dirty, he is no more dirty than Kevin Mealamu and some must remember that. Again, id expect Powell to serve a good few months for that as it was disgusting.

Regarding the treatment of Thorn, id just like to point out, there was some off the cuff incidences, notably when he got pushed to the ground by Wyn-Jones he threw a cheap shot and Phillips to which Wyn-Jones went in and pushed Thorn. The "dramatics" of Jones is a cheap one im afraid, Gear took him out with a shoulder, it was marginal but it was just late, no way a dive and I think its a pretty poor effort to call it.
 
Yeh, that wasn't a great showing from NZ, and Wales really missed a good chance to test them to the max. In all probability NZ would have won even if Byrne didn't miss touch / we'd actually converted a couple more of our opportunities, but we managed to keep many of NZ's star players quiet. Unfortunately with NZ, there's always other ready to have massive games in their place, Kaino, Toeava, Gear etc. I honestly think the gap between the NH and SH is as small as it's been in a long time, and is continuing to shrink, but still some way to go yet.

For Wales, there are certainly good signs, with an emergence of what appears to be a great backrow full of depth and power, we are part way to filling a massive gap that had appeared in our team, although gatland needs to be a little more ruthless. Ryan Jones played well today by his standards, but that still wasn't up to his pre 2009 form. He was overshadowed by the two youngsters, Warburton and Lydiate, and still failed to make enough yardage with ball in hand for my liking. Jonathan Thomas was useless after coming on, Powell not far behind. I think Gatland should bite the bullet and select his backrow for the 6 nations from the following: Warburton, Martyn, Lydiate, McCusker, Turnbull, Faletau and Powell. Recall Ryan Jones and JT when they find some regional form, but develop that group of youngsters in time for the WC.

Next on the work-bench is our attacking (honestly never thought that would be a problem with a Welsh side). This group of players seem unable to perform simple attacking moves! How can international players not identify and excecute simple overlaps is beyond me, and tbh it's not something Gatland and co should have to even teach them. This is a basic skillset that every single international player should have, yet some Welsh players simply don't appear to. I've singles out Hook for special critisism here because he's been labeled by many to be Wales' most creative back. Well today he was the complete opposite. He squandered most attacking moves by running across field cutting down the space available out wide. For the last couple of years, I've agreed with the Ospreys and Wales, that Hook's best position is at centre, but recently he's been terrible there. His defense has cost us on many occasions, and he still doesn't understand how to straighted an attacking move before passing out. The sooner Henson starts playing again the better, because he's honestly a class above Hook at centre. Despite all of Hook's talent, he seems to lack something in every position, however it's at 10 where he looked most comfortouble, and where he played his best rugby. He needs another chance there now I feel, after almost two years.

Our biggest problem however is at fullback, where Byrne is lucky we simply have no-one else available. Byrne has been dire for a long time, mostly due to simple mistakes. Cymro has been suggesting moving Roberts back to his original position for a while now, and that is probably our best option for the 15 shirt. However he's had some trully massive games at centre, where he's shown himself to be world class, should we really consider moving a player like that? If I whisper this last part maybe Cyril and Cymro won't hear me....... please give Priestland a go Gatland.
 
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Doesn't everybody find it kinda ironic that New Zealand fans gave BOD no end of abuse, calling him a crybaby,moaner etc. when he complained about being speared in 2005, but as soon as McCaw is touched, you start doing the very same thing.


Bloody hypocrits, people need to take off the rose-tinted glasses when watching rugby.
 
Doesn't everybody find it kinda ironic that New Zealand fans gave BOD no end of abuse, calling him a crybaby,moaner etc. when he complained about being speared in 2005, but as soon as McCaw is touched, you start doing the very same thing.


Bloody hypocrits, people need to take off the rose-tinted glasses when watching rugby.

Oh, shut-up. Powell's hit was bad, and they can complain about it if they want, especially because it wasn't picked up by the ref. I think the BOD incident has been covered enough already in the past 5 years, and people really need to move along, I'm sure BOD has!
 
Yeh, that wasn't a great showing from NZ, and Wales really missed a good chance to test them to the max. In all probability NZ would have won even if Byrne didn't miss touch / we'd actually converted a couple more of our opportunities, but we managed to keep many of NZ's star players quiet. Unfortunately with NZ, there's always other ready to have massive games in their place, Kaino, Toeava, Gear etc. I honestly think the gap between the NH and SH is as small as it's been in a long time, and is continuing to shrink, but still some way to go yet.

For Wales, there are certainly good signs, with an emergence of what appears to be a great backrow full of depth and power, we are part way to filling a massive gap that had appeared in our team, although gatland needs to be a little more ruthless. Ryan Jones played well today by his standards, but that still wasn't up to his pre 2009 form. He was overshadowed by the two youngsters, Warburton and Lydiate, and still failed to make enough yardage with ball in hand for my liking. Jonathan Thomas was useless after coming on, Powell not far behind. I think Gatland should bite the bullet and select his backrow for the 6 nations from the following: Warburton, Martyn, Lydiate, McCusker, Turnbull, Faletau and Powell. Recall Ryan Jones and JT when they find some regional form, but develop that group of youngsters in time for the WC.

Next on the work-bench is our attacking (honestly never thought that would be a problem with a Welsh side). This group of players seem unable to perform simple attacking moves! How can international players not identify and excecute simple overlaps is beyond me, and tbh it's not something Gatland and co should have to even teach them. This is a basic skillset that every single international player should have, yet some Welsh players simply don't appear to. I've singles out Hook for special critisism here because he's been labeled by many to be Wales' most creative back. Well today he was the complete opposite. He squandered most attacking moves by running across field cutting down the space available out wide. For the last couple of years, I've agreed with the Ospreys and Wales, that Hook's best position is at centre, but recently he's been terrible there. His defense has cost us on many occasions, and he still doesn't understand how to straighted an attacking move before passing out. The sooner Henson starts playing again the better, because he's honestly a class above Hook at centre. Despite all of Hook's talent, he seems to lack something in every position, however it's at 10 where he looked most comfortouble, and where he played his best rugby. He needs another chance there now I feel, after almost two years.

Our biggest problem however is at fullback, where Byrne is lucky we simply have no-one else available. Byrne has been dire for a long time, mostly due to simple mistakes. Cymro has been suggesting moving Roberts back to his original position for a while now, and that is probably our best option for the 15 shirt. However he's had some trully massive games at centre, where he's shown himself to be world class, should we really consider moving a player like that? If I whisper this last part maybe Cyril and Cymro won't hear me....... please give Priestland a go Gatland.

I go with that bar Priestland ....

I did however not point out that Roberts should go back to 15, his kicking game is to weak for there, personally we have to look at Prydie going there, again he needs game time there, not getting that there at the Ospreys mind. Byrne knows there is no one better so there is no pressure for him to deliver as such.

We go to lateral at times in attack and that stems from Phillips and his service in which he takes a step back and runs so lateral allows the defence to rush up in defence.

People always argue that Henson only had one good season for Wales, but really people don't like Gav because of his 'Hollywood' lifestyle, yet people know when Wales has played its best sort of rugby its with him in the centre, he is really the key, Hook has the magic but sometimes you feel he's not giving his all.

Just read that Matthew Rees has said that finger pointing will be allowed when they address the game, I hope it does not backfire but it provides the kick up the arses for some.
 
Oh, shut-up. Powell's hit was bad, and they can complain about it if they want, especially because it wasn't picked up by the ref. I think the BOD incident has been covered enough already in the past 5 years, and people really need to move along, I'm sure BOD has!


Oh yes, I forgot New Zealanders are allowed to complain and no one else is, my mistake.
 
Personally I think both teams were poor. New Zealand didn't have the same penetration as they did in previous matches and they made alot of mistakes many of which were not due to any pressure from Wales. Wales made far to many mistakes and they were not clinical enough. I think Wales have to be given some credit for putting New Zealand under pressure but New Zealand made alot of unforced errors which is a rare site in an All Black team. Wales were good in defensive possitioning but their tackling wasn't great. Hook had a poor game and no one in the backs took charge but their were some great possitives signs for Wales they just have to keep composed for the whole 80 minutes.
 
Tbh a Henson - Roberts centre with Hook at 10 if he gets gametime there and does well for the WC would be good.. but the issue is Jones at 10 is still going strong.. so Hook would be cover for a bit.. at least hes better than biggar :p
As for 15 Prydie or Priestland should get a shot in the 6N if byrne doesnt improve alot untill then.. build them towards the future and the RWC late next year Wales should have a strong side.. Front row forwards are strong, backrow forwards are also very good now just a few possitions at the back to work out like cover for shane, who goes right wing north or halfpenny, who for centres and then #15..
 
If Prydie get's some gametime for the Ospreys maybe then he can have a chance for Wales at 15. I think fullback is a position that is too exposed for a player with almost zero regional experience.
 
If I whisper this last part maybe Cyril and Cymro won't hear me....... please give Priestland a go Gatland.
If we're going for on form players Priestland should be involved with Wales, definately
He's had a top season so far, and was decent last season (kicking at goal aside - which in a side with (potentially) Hook and Halfpenny and Jones (depending on whether they want to use him at 10 or 15) that doesn't really matter)
Really think he should be in there for the 6N (think he should've been in there for this test series as well, but hey ho)
Really need another 15 in the mix, Hook was poor there, Czekaj didn't really get much chance and didn't impress when he was on the pitch (though I think he deserves another chance). Prydies played a bit there for the Ospreys off the bench, but still isn't getting much regional game time (will probably feature more there when Byrne moves on, but that's a while away so doesn't really matter in the short term)

Think that Priestland would be a good choice for a 22 shirt, especially is Gatland wants to have a full back-row on the bench, because in todays game Hook was playing 12 and there to cover 10 and 15, with Bishop only there as backup to Shanklin which isn't ideal, especially if an injury occurs (and Byrnes not the most bullet proof of players)



Also agree on the Henson point, he's the player that Hook wishes he was. But hasn't he said he wants to play flyhalf/he's gone to Sarries as FH cover,
Then again, if he's getting good game time his rustiness will go and he'll probably be able to slip back into playing 12 or 15 easily enough
 
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Positive performance from Wales, although it could have actually been better. Still, its a real boost for them going into the Six Nations and their World Cup preparations.
 
Henson's always held delusional dreams of being Wales greatest ever player in the most famous Welsh shirt, 10. However for me it showed from quite a young age that he was much better suited to 12. The Sarries may play him at 10, and tbh that would be fine, because it would be the quickest way for him to re-learn the game, but ultimately I think he'll end up back at 12 for club and country.
 
Two words spring to mind now this tour is over. Clinical and ruthless. Must be frustrating for Wales to play like that with all that passion, in front of a great crowd and get the ABs down to 14 men only to get hammered when it counts. Seems to be a problem amongst the NH teams they put up a fight and play with plenty of passion in front of huge crowds but just dont have what it takes to win and they give an inch at crucial times and the ABs take a mile. Highlight for me of the tour has probably been the crowds. Cardiff is definitely on the bucket list haha. NZ crowds could learn something fo sure, but sadly we won't.

On another note man I'm sick of players getting pinged for getting trapped at the bottom of the ruck. Ref yells "roll away", like hell with some big ******* on you. If a player gets trapped like that should just play on, if they can roll away and don't thats when they should get pinged. Yellow card was a bit harsh but I guess as long as the ref is consistent it's all good.
 
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well i everyones predictions were correct, NZ to win and when taking the whole game into account; very convincingly. We lacked that game breaker in the back line with no one looking to break the line with a little spark (with the exception of shanklin's few breaks - ended in turnovers due to no support runners). At the end of the day, the AB's didn't look under real pressure when the ball went wide, and in some ways i just felt they were allowing us to get some momentum and when they felt we'd had enough they'd nick it. Loved the way Gethin Jenkins dealt with McCaw being on wrong side, just stand all over him (which is exactly what NZ did/do to our guys and anyone else-which is the same for any side really). Thought the forwards played well, and showed real heart. Its strange how were competing in the forwards against sides but lacking creativity in the backs (always tended to be other way round).
Really been sooo frustrating seeing wales lack some buzz behind the scrum but on the other hand really good to see forwards dominate the scrums :D
ah well i'm really dreading the 6 nations, i can see a drubbing against england if their backs play as well as they have (didn't see them against SA today but saw result). I really hope that Williams,Halfpenny,Roberts and even (dare i say it) Gavin Henson (with form of course) will be back for the 6 nations, we need some spark there and any player that can provide it is more than welcome to step in.
Bring on the Heineken cup i guess :p :p
 
On another note man I'm sick of players getting pinged for getting trapped at the bottom of the ruck. Ref yells "roll away", like hell with some big ******* on you. If a player gets trapped like that should just play on, if they can roll away and don't thats when they should get pinged. Yellow card was a bit harsh but I guess as long as the ref is consistent it's all good.
Sounds about right. I guess it's a question of not getting into that position - sometimes impossible - but if the other side suffer the same then it's OK.

Wales looked good, but no delivery. ABs aren't hugely impressive, but they get the job done.
 
terrible game, it was very jolty and sometimes the players would freeze in the middle of play, I don't think that's a tactic that will work in the world cup.
Kaino was awesome, Gear we need for his finishing, Mils was actually very good, SBW was MIA, he had a terrible game. Mealamu's throwing is still an issue and other contributions weren't as good as early in the year, Smith was pretty good, Toeava had flashes of brilliance but still tempered with handling errors and the like, Kaino was the only real shining light.

It certainly was from where I was watching it ... my feed kept on freezing, and then it finally gave out, and so I had to listen to the rest via internet radio ... looking forward to actually seeing the whole match without interruptions ... from what I did see and hear though, Wales really took the game to the All Blacks ... well done Wales, what a difference a week makes

Doesn't everybody find it kinda ironic that New Zealand fans gave BOD no end of abuse, calling him a crybaby,moaner etc. when he complained about being speared in 2005, but as soon as McCaw is touched, you start doing the very same thing.


Bloody hypocrits, people need to take off the rose-tinted glasses when watching rugby.

Sure, I would find it ironic if it were true - are you talking about all New Zealanders in general, or a specific few ... most NZers (especially the ones on here) actually agree that way back in 2005, a citing(s) should have occurred for the BOD incident, I can think of one or perhaps two people on this forum that think BOD was being a sook, so that's a minority. Most of us don't want to see injuries to ANY player, particularly through foul play, and support citings of our own players ... there's a recent thread on the Keven Mealamu citing that you could read if you are genuinely interested in how NZers feel about our players being cited.

Oh, shut-up. Powell's hit was bad, and they can complain about it if they want, especially because it wasn't picked up by the ref. I think the BOD incident has been covered enough already in the past 5 years, and people really need to move along, I'm sure BOD has!

Exactly, well said, it's been covered over and over again ... lets move on, and hopefully ALL or the MAJORITY of players who CURRENTLY commit foul play will receive visits to the judiciary, and we can have some tangible progress towards taking this aspect out of the game.

Oh yes, I forgot New Zealanders are allowed to complain and no one else is, my mistake.

Hey, complain all you like ... complain about people complaining if you want ... no wait, you're already doing that aren't you ;)

... You might notice that only two of us can even be bothered to respond to you though
 
Cooky, I think you're a self-opinionated so-and-so who loves the sound of his own keyboard, but you are spot on there sunshine.

Of course I'm self opinionated; and proud of it. Why else would I be debating rugby on a rugby forum!?

But I HATE the sound of my keyboard... bloody ** tap tap tap tap ** all the effing time!!

One of these days, I'm going to go buy myself a new laptop, and it is going to have a SILENT keyboard!!!
 
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Originally Posted by ckell
Doesn't everybody find it kinda ironic that New Zealand fans gave BOD no end of abuse, calling him a crybaby,moaner etc. when he complained about being speared in 2005, but as soon as McCaw is touched, you start doing the very same thing.
Bloody hypocrits, people need to take off the rose-tinted glasses when watching rugby.
Moronic posts like this really **** me off. They contribute exactly nothing to the debate.

It wouldn't matter which player was taken with a hit like that, or which team he played for.

Powell's hit was deliberate, calculated and malicious, and to make it worse, he put on the macho act afterward like it was good thing he had just done. Most Welsh posters here will agree.

If he is cited, and he should be, his lack of remorse and the way he behaved afterwards is almost as serious, and will count heavily against him. Apparently, Powell is not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer, so maybe that accounts for his idiotic behaviour.

As for Kiwis complaining, well if you lived here you would know that Keven Mealamu copped a real serve from the rugby public here for his heat-butt on Lewis Moody. There was universal condemnation from Radio Sport listeners. Most people were calling for 6-8 weeks. He got 4 reduced to 2, and IMO that was wrong. Us Kiwis can be a fair-minded lot when we see a REAL act of brutality on the field, even if it is perpetrated by one of our own.

Finally, as for the BOD incident, well you should head off to your local DIY Store and buy some concrete and timber.... then you can use it to build a bridge!! You'll know what to do when you have finished building it!!
 
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