Wales v Ireland

[Peat]

To offer a neutral opinion on back rows...

Lydiate's a fine player, if a little raw, as is Warburton. Not a lot to choose between them and the Irish flankers. O'Brien's probably the best loose carrier out of those who will be on the pitch but Warburton's by far the best ball hog. If Ryan Jones has genuinely recaptured form there's not a lot in it at 8, but Heaslip gets through a lot of work compared to anyone. Hard to call an advantage. Ireland will look like dicks if they can't shunt Warburton off of the ball, but Wales are going to look like dicks when the counter-rucking starts and as per orders there's one guy trying to protect Philipps.

I also assume both teams will have tools on the bench in Powell and Leamy. I look forwards to that tooltastic showdown which should answer the question of "How best to give a penalty offence at a ruck when the other team have knocked it on and you're going to get it anyway".

In an ideal world, the best thing that could happen for this fixture is for both coaches to somehow get locked into the toilet so they can stop sucking the life out of their teams and let 30 very good rugby players actually get on with doing that.

 

[munstermuffin]

Agreed but to be fair from Irish side coaching isn't solely to blame

 

[coonor]

All valid points. We thought the same after winning the grand-slam and beating the likes of Aus in '05 and '08, but things didn't materialise. Ireland were very good in '09, but have similarily tailed off since. I personally feel that Ireland have dropped another level this year, mainly due to the core group of players that have been great for so long, finally reaching their sell by date. DOC, POC, O'Driscoll and D'Arcy being the main four, with no youngsters really pushing for places in their place (although I rate McFadden at centre). The majority of older players in the Welsh team are being pushed hard for their places, or have been overtaken already by the younger rival as is the case with Warburton replacing Martyn Williams.


My optimism is based on the player base we have. There are genuine quality players available in practically every position. We're lacking depth in one or two positions such as fullback. There is no denying that we've struggled for results over the past two years, and that's hugely disapointing, but alot of the performances have been encouraging. We are not as poor a team as you are making out. Ireland aren't either, but then again, I've not said they are. I've been respectful of Ireland and critical of Wales, all I hear from you are how Ireland will cruise past us and reghtfully they should be competing with England for the Grand Slam, despite being extremely lucky to come away from Italy with a win, and a yellow card (which should have come) away from loosing to Scotland. Ireland looked half decent against France, but I thought France were always in control of the match.

I agree that those player are now coming to end but BOD is still sharp and is maybe the exception. The only reason they are in the team is because they have been so great for so long. They won Ireland its first grand slam in decades and its hard to just drop them. Plus these are our players for the world cup and we cannot just drop them. After the world cup it will be different. Irelands talent in in huge with our provinces being hugely successful esecially in the academies. the players such as O'Brien who are now in their early 20s are all very talented and this is shown by the way are under 20s side won the 6 nations last year the grand slam a few years back. Plus our under 19 team was world champions. There are clearly talented players there and they will come on to the scene very soon. Wales have good young players but where are all their quality 26-29 year olds at their peak. They ahve been forced into bringing in very young players and it has worked for them but the welsh teams are not great and it seems like alot of the young players coming through don't have the experience of winning big things like H-Cups. They are talented but are they really ready? Ireland have the opposite problem. We hang onto players for to long. But you can't blame to much. Their are loads of young players waiting for their turn and because are provinces are very successful they know how to win things. Look at the Leinster players. Jamie Heaslip is now not just a good ball carrier but he is a creater and a leader. That comes through winning and playing in big games and O'Brien will bring that to the big stage and after the world cup we can start fresh and bring in some young players that have already shown how good they by winning under 20 championships etc.

Anyway onto the game.
Both teams are punching below their weight and for me it will be the team the clicks on the day. The worrying thing for Wales is that their gameplan is not working to well and they kick away to much. Ireland look more threatning but give away to many penalties at crucial times. I would put Wales as favourites as they are at home but this should be very close. Also on the O'Brien thing. I think he has been very good and is growing with every game. Stats say alot but I think he has the potential to be brilliant and you never know when he will have that really good game that breaks him into the international class. I could be against Wales. On Wales backrow I still think they aren't hugely physical and they don't break a huge amount of tackles. Their seemed to be alot of holes around the fringes which suggests they aren't plugging them. I think Warbuton and Lydiatte are very good but I don't really ever see them make huge bursts and maybe Wales could use that.

 

[dullonien]

I don't think Powell will be on the bench. I think Gatland will go for Turnbull and Jon Thomas on the bench as backrow/second row cover, as he has done the last two games.

I wonder if Gatland will take the risk by starting Adam Jones if he does indeed play for the Ospreys on Sat? Mitchell has done well, but Adam Jones is trully world class. We need to make sure he's fully fit though, the last thing we need is for him to injure himself further so close to a WC.

I agree that those player are now coming to end but BOD is still sharp and is maybe the exception. The only reason they are in the team is because they have been so great for so long. They won Ireland its first grand slam in decades and its hard to just drop them. Plus these are our players for the world cup and we cannot just drop them. After the world cup it will be different. Irelands talent in in huge with our provinces being hugely successful esecially in the academies. the players such as O'Brien who are now in their early 20s are all very talented and this is shown by the way are under 20s side won the 6 nations last year the grand slam a few years back. Plus our under 19 team was world champions. There are clearly talented players there and they will come on to the scene very soon. Wales have good young players but where are all their quality 26-29 year olds at their peak. They ahve been forced into bringing in very young players and it has worked for them but the welsh teams are not great and it seems like alot of the young players coming through don't have the experience of winning big things like H-Cups. They are talented but are they really ready? Ireland have the opposite problem. We hang onto players for to long. But you can't blame to much. Their are loads of young players waiting for their turn and because are provinces are very successful they know how to win things. Look at the Leinster players. Jamie Heaslip is now not just a good ball carrier but he is a creater and a leader. That comes through winning and playing in big games and O'Brien will bring that to the big stage and after the world cup we can start fresh and bring in some young players that have already shown how good they by winning under 20 championships etc.

BOD hasn't been up to much this 6 nations so far. Hasn't looked atall sharp. But I'd be a fool to completely write him, or any of the others mentioned, off. He's prooved time and again that he's a quality player and is still capable of moments of genius.

There are certainly plenty of youngsters coming through for Ireland. However, who is there ready to step into the troubling positions named? McFaden is the only one that's shown true potential at professional level, and he's getting zero gametime at centre for Ireland. I honestly don't think Earls is a centre, and although Bowe could make the transition, he's never looked comfortouble there for the O's. There are no young second-rows playing regularily for any of the Irish provinces to push, or replace DOC or POC. Instead Cullen, another old player, is the one sitting on the bench.

The 26-29 age-group you commented on is interesting. There does seem to be a small gap there, but I'm not fussed because the 20-26 y/o's are quality players, many of them already with huge international experience.

 

[Peat]

Thought Turnbull was just a 7? If so, slightly eccentric choice for the bench, although he is a good player and certainly better than Powell. Who's a tool.

I'm not certain whether to cheer the triumph of sanity or mourn the blow to comedy.

 

[dullonien]

Thought Turnbull was just a 7? If so, slightly eccentric choice for the bench, although he is a good player and certainly better than Powell. Who's a tool.

I'm not certain whether to cheer the triumph of sanity or mourn the blow to comedy.

Turnbull is a 6 really, converted to play 7 this season by the Scarlets. He covers 6 and 7, with Jon Thomas covering 8 and lock, along with Ryan Jones.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Shocking alright. I mean have Wales actually competed in International rugby for the past two or three years? Have they won a meaningful rugby match in that time? (Apart from beating Scotland and Italy every year)? While were at it, have the provinces competed in that time either? Seriously, your "potential" is based on blind optimism because your players havent shown it in years.

At least we beat the SH teams occasionally, and we dont have a problem beating France or England. Add to that our provincial teams are used to winning at the highest level in Europe. For us its a matter of transforming our provincial form into the international stage, for you guys its pulling it out of a hat of some kind.

You say we are a few plays away from a wooden spoon while its clear we should be playing for a Grand Slam against the English after we cruise past your lot.

Trolling at its best :lol:

 

[Draggs]

Did Ireland win a Grand Slam in 2009?
Why has no one told me yet?

Turnbull has played 7 for the Scarlets this season, but has always looked like a blindside. (Like Lydiate playing openside, competent but not natural). I thought McCusker was developing well until his injury. He is a good openside, a decent blindside and an off-the-bench 8. Good pace for a forward as well.

We can argue all we want, but it will come down to which side is less poor and can actually play how they should.

 

[cyRil]

To offer a neutral opinion on back rows...

Lydiate's a fine player, if a little raw, as is Warburton. Not a lot to choose between them and the Irish flankers. O'Brien's probably the best loose carrier out of those who will be on the pitch but Warburton's by far the best ball hog. If Ryan Jones has genuinely recaptured form there's not a lot in it at 8, but Heaslip gets through a lot of work compared to anyone. Hard to call an advantage. Ireland will look like dicks if they can't shunt Warburton off of the ball, but Wales are going to look like dicks when the counter-rucking starts and as per orders there's one guy trying to protect Philipps.

I also assume both teams will have tools on the bench in Powell and Leamy. I look forwards to that tooltastic showdown which should answer the question of "How best to give a penalty offence at a ruck when the other team have knocked it on and you're going to get it anyway".

In an ideal world, the best thing that could happen for this fixture is for both coaches to somehow get locked into the toilet so they can stop sucking the life out of their teams and let 30 very good rugby players actually get on with doing that.

Here here!!

 

[jim546]

Shocking alright. I mean have Wales ... provinces competed in that time either? Seriously, your "potential" is based on blind optimism because your players havent shown it in years.

May I ask you who were the Magners League Champions Last year? Also, who won the Amlin Cup last year? Finally, who won the Anglo-Welsh Cup in 2008 and 2009?

 

[TRF_Cymro]

To offer a neutral opinion on back rows...

Lydiate's a fine player, if a little raw, as is Warburton. Not a lot to choose between them and the Irish flankers. O'Brien's probably the best loose carrier out of those who will be on the pitch but Warburton's by far the best ball hog. If Ryan Jones has genuinely recaptured form there's not a lot in it at 8, but Heaslip gets through a lot of work compared to anyone. Hard to call an advantage. Ireland will look like dicks if they can't shunt Warburton off of the ball, but Wales are going to look like dicks when the counter-rucking starts and as per orders there's one guy trying to protect Philipps.

I also assume both teams will have tools on the bench in Powell and Leamy. I look forwards to that tooltastic showdown which should answer the question of "How best to give a penalty offence at a ruck when the other team have knocked it on and you're going to get it anyway".

In an ideal world, the best thing that could happen for this fixture is for both coaches to somehow get locked into the toilet so they can stop sucking the life out of their teams and let 30 very good rugby players actually get on with doing that.

Agree with this, don't think Powell will be on the bench for Wales mind.

 

[dullonien]

May I ask you who were the Magners League Champions Last year? Also, who won the Amlin Cup last year? Finally, who won the Anglo-Welsh Cup in 2008 and 2009?

Don't bring things like the Anglo-Welsh cup into this. It makes us look despirate.....

 

[Draggs]

Agree with this, don't think Powell will be on the bench for Wales mind.

I wouldn't put it past Shaun Edwards to try it.
He wouldn't work on the bench, if he replaces JT we lose a second row option (hardly) and Turnbull an openside choice.

 

[durbutter]

may i ask you who were the magners league champions last year? Also, who won the amlin cup last year? Finally, who won the anglo-welsh cup in 2008 and 2009?

lol

 

[Draggs]

lol

I'm not going to lie, the Irish clubs are better. They have won four Heineken Cups, we have won none. Magners and Amlin are nice, but really mean little compared to the Heineken Cup.

 

[durbutter]

I just find it high-laroius that the there's more bickering here than there has been for any of the other matches. It's pretty meaningless as both teams stand very little chance of winning the C'ship, and from an Irish perspective, its not like we're going to see much new talent.

 

[ckell]

May I ask you who were the Magners League Champions Last year? Also, who won the Amlin Cup last year? Finally, who won the Anglo-Welsh Cup in 2008 and 2009?

Amlin Cup?? Anglo-Welsh Cup??? I mean seriously, that's not something to brag about mate! I disagree with Logorrhea's post, it was very arrogant and troll-like but...c'mon man

 

[WetAndCold]

aah, I love a good old heated debate, especially when it's about rugby.
Since I'm half Welsh, and live in Wales. I will be supporting Wales for this match. Even as a neutral I would fancy Wales for this one; they have shown much more promise. BOD - awesome player that he is - hasn't been firing on all cyclinders this championship and Jamie Roberts is a beast of a centre capable of getting over the gainline of any defence competing in this years 6 nations: Including Ireland's.

It's funny how this match debate is more heated than the England-France one. Maybe Wales should think about changing their 'old enemy' (I absolutely detest that phrase btw) to Ireland (it would make life as an Englishman living in Wales alot easier ) . If I remember rightly, in the last few years the Wales-Ireland match has been one of the best and hardest fought of the 6n.

Like I said: Wales for this one I reckon, by the smallest of margins. I'm looking forward to it.

EDIT: I would like to add that I think after defeat to Wales, Ireland are gonna have a really good game the following week and smash England. 'Slam Busters' time me thinks

 

[King_D'Arcy]

May I ask you who were the Magners League Champions Last year? Also, who won the Amlin Cup last year? Finally, who won the Anglo-Welsh Cup in 2008 and 2009?

Ah no, he's right! We're ******, lads!!

 

[TVH11]

Reading all this banter is awesome. Didn't think there would be so much craziness (the abuse is what i'd expect in England v Wales ha)
Its all good banter tho, at the end of the day Cardiff's gonna be Red and Green and the pubs will be hugely full Always a good crack with the Irish over.
In all seriousness tho, neither side has played very well thus far in the championship; both having huge penalty counts and errors. So the game will come down to who will have the mental toughness and drive to get rid of the error ridden game. Hopefully both sides will pull their finger out and perform for the full match - should have a great game in store if they do.