Wales v Ireland

[munstermuffin]

Lads has any of ye seen O'Brien play lately. Not based on 6Nations but for last few months on form with Leinster Sean O'Brien has argubally been best forward in European Rugby.
That is difference between both sides - In Ireland our provincal sides have all been going well and probably the worst out of us is here in Munster and I say that even though we are top of ML and in Amlin QF. But it shows our lads can do it and be competitive against anyone. But Welsh regions consistently fail that is big part in this. I think Ireland players because of this have better mentality and winning mindset while welsh are talented but have alot of names that are known to be chokers come crunch time

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Both sides are facing different issues I think. For Wales it's about getting the right balances sorted out in key areas. For one, Roberts and Davies at 12 and 13 is tested but not proved as of yet. Also, the who plays at 10 debate isnt by any means solved, whereas perhaps for Ireland they know that Sexton and ROG each have a place and a time and they know what that is. I think Wales also haven't quite worked out what would be their first choice back three necessarily. Until recently the backrow was undecided as to Powell/jones/Thomas for example. For me, these are selection issues. At the moment it's not quite worked for Wales but I wouldn't expect it to work until enough continuity and momentum is established within the match-day 15. That their backline hasn't always looked incisive is not a measure of talent, it's just of getting the dynamics right.

For Ireland I think many of the units in the team are established (D'arcy and BOD), (POC and DOC), and now questions are opening up as to whether these units should continue to be. I think these will be ongoing questions until D'Arcy and DOC lose their places really. Sortof think Ireland are at the beginning of a transitional phase, whereas Wales are further along the line, and therefore I sortof expect Wales to 'get it right' sooner.

Really looking forward to the game, and I think Ireland will need to step it up more than Wales will in order to get something from the game. On Sports guru I predicted Ireland by 6 (prediction made 3 weeks ago!) but now I'd say Wales by 3

 

[Teh Mite]

Hold on, I thought you Munster fans didn't care about the Challenge Cup as it's not a major competition????????

 

[dullonien]

Yup seem O'Brien play for Leinster and he was great. But international level is another step up, and whilst I don't doubt that he will be a quality international with a bit of time, he's not quite there yet.

I agree that Wales' problems in the HC aren't great, but the Welsh sides are doing well in the Magners aswell. We have proven in the past that it's not necassary for the regions to play well in order for Wales to do so.

The obvious truth is that both sides are not playing to their potential. Either team could click and win comfortoubly in this game. But the reality is that both teams will probably continue to make mistakes and it'll be the team that take their opportunities that will win.

 

[munstermuffin]

Bullitt we don't hence why I said we are probably worst achievers out of 3 provinces as I said before we only want to win trophies where best teams play and give a crap

Dullonien while I accept ye do well in ML it's only tho O's that really are there at business time usually

 

[dullonien]

Well there you go then, looks like you have it all worked out. You can join the Welsh rugby is awesome brigade.

What brigade is that then? All I see is every Welsh fan being realistic about our performances. On the other hand I see a couple of Irish supporters who are doing the complete opposite and seem to have buried their heads in the sand and still think it's '09.

Dullonien while I accept ye do well in ML it's only tho O's that really are there at business time usually

Blues or Scarlets should end in the top 4 this season aswell. There's no denying the Irish provinces are still ahead of the Welsh regions.

 

[Teh Mite]

Bullitt we don't hence why I said we are probably worst achievers out of 3 provinces as I said before we only want to win trophies where best teams play and give a crap

Yep, but you said it as though your lot achieved something. By getting knocked out of the HEC. At the first Hurdle. Mr. Alastair Campbell.

 

[durbutter]

Ireland have scored 7 tries and have conceded 2 so far. If discipline is sorted then we'll be in a pretty healthy place.

 

[dullonien]

Ireland have scored 7 tries and have conceded 2 so far. If discipline is sorted then we'll be in a pretty healthy place.

Two best defenses and the best attacking team in this years tournament yet to play.....

 

[coonor]

Remove the penalties and errors (the bad things) and of course you're only going to be left with the good things :S


I'm not saying Wales are the best team in the world, just that player for player I'd say that their players are better at the moment

Wales probably have better player for players just about but I think the success in Irelands provinces shows Ireland have by far the better talent base. That may not have anything to do with this game but it also shows that more of Irelands players have proven to be more talented this season. I don't think theres much difference in the front 5 and I think Ireland have the dominant backrow especially if Ferris is fit. The half backs from both teams are about the same at the moment but wales Centres are playing better ( I wouldn't write off darcy and BOD though) Back 3 are about the same aswell.

 

[Logorrhea]

Holy crap, one reply is enough surely. No need to get so upset.

You call me dillusional yet you question O'Brien and believe you actually have a backrow of your own? Your backline (apart from Hook) hasnt played rugby for two, maybe three years. You are struggling to score tries yet you think they just have to click? The only chance you have to beat Ireland is if the ref pings us off the park, and he wont.

Its not a matter of dismissing the Welsh team (I think the two Daviessss and James Hook are decent players), I just believe Ireland are a lot closer to meeting our potential, and we have a whole lot more potential then your lot do.

 

[cyRil]

Jeeez, who's bitten his bum today?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

If you look at it on paper both teams are underperforming it seems to be a selection and form issue in Wales and obviously a discipline issue in Ireland. I think discipline is easier to fix out of the two of them.

If you look at it this way:

Front row: Wales better at set pieces Scrum and hooker throwing. Ireland better in loose. 1-0 Wales
Second row: Too tight to call. POC looked back on form against Scotland and him on his best is better than AWJ and Davies who are both better than DOC. 1-0 Wales
back row: Ireland stronger IMO. SOB better than Lydiate, Heaslip better than Jones, Warburton better than Wallace. 1-1
Half-backs: Both half-back pairings underperforming it will be interesting to see which plays better. Reddan and Sexton at their best or Phillips and Jones(I don't think Wales backline will change much from last week) is a tight one to call but IMO Reddan and Sexton are better as they play together in Leinster. 2-1 Ireland
Centres: Wallace and O'Driscoll(I think Kidney will have to drop D'Arcy) or Roberts and Hook. Pretty even O'Driscoll the best of them Wallace the worst and possibly a Target defensivly. Even 2-1
Back three: Byrne and FitzGerald equal IMO. Bowe better than Stoddart. Williams better than Earls. Even again 2-1 Ireland

Ireland IMO better on paper and discipline should be fixed I predict a close match Ireland winners by less than 5 but easily could go the other way.

 

[munstermuffin]

Yep, but you said it as though your lot achieved something. By getting knocked out of the HEC. At the first Hurdle. Mr. Alastair Campbell.

Meant it more an achievement in terms of we top of ML and we still in competitions after 6Nations. Yes we were knocked out of Heineken and finished 2nd in tough pool and this season is down has a bad 1 but we still have and do consistently over past years gave meaningful games.

Blues or Scarlets may get top 4 this season but they need it on consistent basis like Cardiff won Amlin last year (and this helps my point the Amlin poor cup) but this season they were never at races in Europe. It kills me to let Bullitt hear this but Saints are only team who have become stronger team when winning it.
But Cionor Ferris is out for rest of 6 Nations. And I think we will shade the game in Cardiff simply because I think while both teams are poor at moment we have tougher mental strength and I think we can get our problems fixed quicker but if we leak penalty after penalty we will be punished

 

[Teh Mite]

Meant it more an achievement in terms of we top of ML and we still in competitions after 6Nations. Yes we were knocked out of Heineken and finished 2nd in tough pool and this season is down has a bad 1 but we still have and do consistently over past years gave meaningful games.

Blues or Scarlets may get top 4 this season but they need it on consistent basis like Cardiff won Amlin last year (and this helps my point the Amlin poor cup) but this season they were never at races in Europe. It kills me to let Bullitt hear this but Saints are only team who have become stronger team when winning it.

But those are a domestic "league" (sic) and the ECC... Competitions which you yourself have stated "don't mean anything".

I've never even seen the last Labour government spin doctors make such fast u-turns after failing to deliver.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

But those are a domestic "league" (sic) and the ECC... Competitions which you yourself have stated "don't mean anything".

I've never even seen the last Labour government spin doctors make such fast u-turns after failing to deliver.

I think munstermuffin meant it more like the best Welsh teams aren't doing this but the third Irish team are rather than saying it is a great achievement for Munster

 

[Logorrhea]

@mite. I think quite a few Munster fans are getting used to being Irelands second team so competing for the mickeymouse trophies is all they have to play for now.
@cmac. you cant look at it that way
@cyril. Nothing, just calling it as I see it.

 

[munstermuffin]

ML may be domestic but it a competition that is meaningful. The Welsh teams with the exception of Osprey don't challenge consistently and with regards the Amlin it's competitive rugby but if we win it will we be going over the top celebrating - No because it means you haven't achieved anything decent in Europe only blooded a few younger guy.
Can't be any clearer than that Bullitt.
Logorrhea let's not forget ML is a competition Leinster are going for too and yes ye are still in Europe this season but it's been many a time Leinster weren't there and this is Munsters first time in a long time not at QF. And not that this matters but we have 2 cups and Leinster only have one. But I do hope Leinster can win it out

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Second row: Too tight to call. POC looked back on form against Scotland

This tickled me!
He was poor against Scotland apart from the last 3-4 minutes
He was completely shown up by a 21yr old winning his 7th cap
Considering he's supposed to be one of, if not the best lineout forward in the world, he got done up a treat


On O'Brien, like Dullonien said, he's top notch in the Magners and Heienken, but has he performed at international level?
Lydiate has, and has performed very well there, I'd pick Lydiate ahead of him every time (at the moment - when O'Brien can play like he does for Leinster, for Ireland, I'd pick him)

 

[Logorrhea]

He was completely shown up by a 21yr old winning his 7th cap

Another simplistic view of the game. Im starting to wonder if you watch the games. You do realise there is more to a 2nd rows performance then the lineout dont you? You also realise that the lineout is a unit of 4 - 5 jumpers and a thrower yeah?

I rate Gray and think he has been pretty good, but even Scottish fans think he had a quiet game last weekend.

As for O'Brien, you simply couldnt have seen the Scottish match.