Wales V France

[Bluemoon]

Im still frustrated with the game. I agree the French put us under pressure, but we made some very bad decisions that lead to the tries. First half we just seemed desperate and forced it to much, when we could have built up some phases.

I thought Bradley Davies had a great game, I genuinely think if he keeps up like this he will hold on to that jersey. On the flip side, I thought Martyn Williams had another awful game. Im a bit worried about his form and I wouldn't be surprised if Warburton started against Ireland.

 

[roscommon guy]

A part from the score line I got my predictions right.

Why did no Welsh players run on to the ball when Michalak droped it out at the end.

Credit to Bradley Davies he had an awsome game.

Shane Williams = great player!

 

[dullonien]

Well that was a rollercoaster rider. France did very little in this match. They put some pressure on, but that first intercept from Hook put us on the backfoot, and we were chasing the game from then on. What was Hook thinking with that pass? The Frenchman was standing there waiting for it, and he still passed it to him! If he'd given it to Lee Byrne instead, there was a try on there due to the French winger selling himself. Poor decision making.

Hook was generally crap last night, especially in the first half, where he got almost everything wrong. Regarding Roberts, he's not at his best, but I thought he got the better of Basteraud in the second half, just made a couple of poor decisions after creating some chances. Lee Byrne had a mixed performance. If it wasn't for those two missed touch finders (criminal at this level), he had a good game. Some of his clearances were immense.

Up front, I was surprised to see our scrum under so much pressure. Paul James and Adam Jones are good scrummagers, just goes to show how strong the French are in that aspect. The french front row were immense all night. Second row went well, especially Bradley Davies, great showing from him. Still not convinced with the backrow, Martyn certainly isn't his old self, nor is Ryan Jones. Maybe Warberton should be given an opportunity against Irelend.

Lineout was a shambles again. We lost another 4 or 5 of our throws, at least 2 inside the French 22. This has to be sorted, and if that means throwing young Ken Owens into the deep end, so be it!

Richie Rees was great all game, wouldn't be surprised to see him retain his place against Irelend. Although a fit Phillips is tempting. Shane Williams' intercpt was much more unfortunate than Hooks, but was there really a need to force things inside our own half? Great pass for Halfpenny's try, and awesome finish for his own. As I mentioned Halfpenny, I though he had a very good game. Safe under the high ball, and kept his width well for his try.

So, we handed that game on a plate to France. But yet again, we showed what we can do when we get a bit of tempo and rhythm into our game. Very dissapointing overall though, we need to sort out our first half performances.

How many Welsh pentioners have suffered heart attacks this 6 nations?

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Feb 28 2010, 07:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

How many Welsh pentioners have suffered heart attacks this 6 nations?[/b]

And Wales haven't even spread their havoc in Dublin yet. That should make the wrinklies in the valleys choke on their Werther's Originals.

 

[bristol-iain]

Byrne - Decent game but thats tainted by those kicks for touch that he missed.
Halfpenny - By far the best back, took his try very well and looked solid an all other areas
Hook - Another Hook intercepted pass for a try. Nuff said.
J Roberts - Again, did well and a massive "what if" moment in the second half if he had passed a tad earlier.
S Williams - Try of the tournament but showed a tendancy to try too much in our own half/22.
S Jones - Solid, as ever.
R Rees - Good performance, I did think he tired towards the 60 min mark and Phillips should have come on

P James - Struggled in scrum against a very good French front row
Bennett - Was it poor throwing or communication that killed our line out.
A Jones - as P James
B Davies - Played fantasically, AWJ can worry about his starting spot after that effort. I can't even begin to think how he could concentrate on the game before hand
D Jones - Cant really say much as he went off early
Thomas - Solid, if a bit ineffective
M Williams - Maybe time is running out on Nuggets career, may be a more effective sub rather than a starter
R. Jones (capt) - Good effort all round
Replacements: Charteris - Even with a 6'9'' beanpole we can't win lineouts, not blaming him though.

I.Miles (me) - Good effort, 7 pints in a game.

 

[dullonien]

Regerding Charteris. It's tough to know why our lineouts aren't functioning with him in the team. He's immense in that aspect for the Dragons. Mabe the Dragons hooker Steve Jones should be considered to have that combination of thrower and jumper! I thought Charteris was very very good apart from the lineout (again, not blaming him though). I know he knocked on that pass from Hook, but it was a poor pass from Hook, and to be fair he did well to get into such a supporting position, when it should have been the winger / fullback.

I thought the combination between him and Bradley Davies looked good. Davies made the hard yards, Charteris was everywhere. Alun-Wyn Jones has gotta up his game to regain his place imo. Gatland should approach Paul Turner, ask his advice on the best way to use Charteris in the lineouts. I'm sure Paul would be only too happy to help, and we might see the best from Charteris and sort out a majour problem area. But that will never happen, will it....................

Maybe Gatland should just make Charteris the lineout captain. Jon Thomas didn't have the game I expected at 6, and although he was solid, I'd be tempted to try Warberton there against Irenland to see if the balance is any better.

 

[dullonien]

Just one more thing. Are the other Welsh posters here happy with the way we've progressed in this 6 Nations? Before it started I was worried that Gatland and co had stiffled the natural running instincts of the players. In the AI's, we were a very predictable team, and we kicked poorly too many times. The game against france was hugely encouraging in that sense, as was Gatland's interview afterwards. The tactics have obviously been changed slightly, as more emphasis has been put on running rugby.

If or when we stop giving away easy points, not just intercepts, but stupid penalties and missed tackles aswell, then we will be a good attacking team imo. However that's really just talkign about the backs. There is much, much more work to be done with the forwards, and this 6 nations has shown that although the strnegth in depth is improving (see Bradley Davies and Charteris), we still miss certain players when they're not available (Gethin Jenkins, Mat Rees, Dafydd Jones). However, many of the problems up front, such as lineouts are things that can be improved upon with maybe a change at hooker etc. Martyn Williams' below par performances are a little worrying, so I'd like to see what Warberton can do against top quality opposition in Irelend, not just against Italy.

The 6 nations ***le is beyond us, Gatland needs to use the last two games to try out a couple of new players. So I'd bring Ken Owens in at hooker and Warberton in at 6 or 7. Maybe give the backs another chance, giving Biggar gametime against Ireland, and a full 80 against Italy. I'm sure Hook won't have another howler like Fri in terms of passing!

Ryan Jones needs to be put under pressure. He was solid against France, but not a stand-out by any means. Delve HAS to come into the squad imo.

 

[gingergenius]

I'd be despairing if I was a Welsh fan.

Front fow - excellent.
2nd row - distinctly average.
Back row - decent thanks only to Williams, who is injured.

Wales really lack quality from 4-8. Especially in terms of depth.

The backs, on the other hand, are excellent. But if you spend every match getting the **** kicked out of you upfront, then you have to rely on Shane Williams to magic you out of a mess - and he's 33 and getting on.

 

[erwanseb]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Feb 28 2010, 09:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The backs, on the other hand, are excellent. But if you spend every match getting the **** kicked out of you upfront, then you have to rely on Shane Williams to magic you out of a mess - and he's 33 and getting on.[/b]

Without Shane Williams, the best winger in the world by a milestones, Wales would probably in contention with Scotland and Italy for the wooden spoon.

Take him out of the team and you can kiss goodbye to a rwc qf.

I actually think he should not play so that the others have to step up.

That may be harsh but I believe that a very average welsh team is being hyped up by one of the most talented ever winger.

 

[King_D'Arcy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codorniou @ Feb 28 2010, 03:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Feb 28 2010, 09:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The backs, on the other hand, are excellent. But if you spend every match getting the **** kicked out of you upfront, then you have to rely on Shane Williams to magic you out of a mess - and he's 33 and getting on.[/b]

Without Shane Williams, the best winger in the world by a milestones, Wales would probably in contention with Scotland and Italy for the wooden spoon.

Take him out of the team and you can kiss goodbye to a rwc qf.

I actually think he should not play so that the others have to step up.

That may be harsh but I believe that a very average welsh team is being hyped up by one of the most talented ever winger.

[/b][/quote]


I disagree. I think Wales have a lot more talent than Scotland and Italy, they just aren't performing well as a team. It's the same story every year for Wales. One year they click, the next they don't.

 

[dullonien]

The pack is a little worrying. Our first choice front-row is excellent, but they would have still had a battering in the scrum v that French pack, as would every other team in the world imo. Paul James is a good scrummager, probably slightly better than Gethin Jenkins in that aspect, and Adam Jones has shown to be one of the best scrummagers in the world this past year, but we were destroyed scrum-time on Fri, even though France had two first choice props out injured. That's gotta put alarm bells ringing for every other nation.

Second row has been a little poor. But I thought Bradley and Charteris went well against France. Alun-Wyn is also a quality player, but needs to rediscover some form. Then there's Ian Evans on his way back. He needs to improve his dicipline (got yellow carded for the O's last weekend again), but he was devloping very nicely untill getting injured. I don't think it's the second row's fault that the lineout is missfiring, but it's a tough one to know for sure.

Backrow has suddenly become worrying imo. None of our first choice are in great form. Martyn Williams has been distinctly average, especially in the tight. Jonathan Thomas wasn't the savious he'd been built up to be before the French match, and Ryan Jones isn't carrying as he should. However there are some very promising youngsters coming through in the form of Warberton and Lydiate. Then there's Delve who should be pressing for a starting spot and Dafydd Jones who would also be pushing for the 6/7 shirt if fit. A little more depth in the backrow is needed, but that depth is beggining to emerge, could be perfect timing for the WC!

Wales aren't world beaters at the moment due to the missfiring pack, but I believe that can easily be sorted. Probably not in time for the Ireland game, or the Italy game either, but certainly in time for next years 6 nations and ultimately the WC. One example of this potential I see is Ken Owens. He's been arguably the best performing hooker of the home nations at club level. He offers great ball carrying abilities around the field, but more importantly he's shown that he's a top quality lineout thrower which Wales despirately need. Mathew Rees, Ken Owens and Richard Hibbard provide massive strength in depth in a position we've been struggling in for a long time.

I'm probably being over optimistic, but there is signs of a quality team here. We just need to combine this current playing style with the '08 playing style and it's be almost perfect.

 

[elgringoborracho]

I was very happy to see France winning almost without having to play, just by defending well and then managing to hold on very well to the legendary Welsh awakening. Shane's try is one of my individual all time favorites, although it doesn't beat this one. I personally think he wouldn't have scored it had the time not been over, watching it again you can see malzieu stops running after the ball like he doesn't care and then when this legend of a player has the afterburners on you don't catch him easily.

I'm not pointing this out out of ungraciousness _ Wales are my favorite 6N team after France, and they are one of the last countries still playing enjoyable rugby _ just to say that without that last minute try, the final score would have been 26-13, which I think is a hell of a big gap to inflict on Wales at the Millenium, althemore when you play an average game and with a man in the bin for 10 minutes.

I read in the English press somewhere that this French side had psychological problems and showed it against Wales in that second half, so there was hope for England in the SdF on that account. Although I agree with the conclusion _ simply because England is a class outfit and know particularly well how to win against us _ I totally disagree with the argument. Against such a rampaging Welsh side, with only 14 men and at 20-13 with 20 minutes to go, I think only a few teams would have made it safely as we did. That composure under pressure is something I haven't seen from us since that 2007 quarterfinal.

All in all, a game made to look easy by a great attacking defense in the first half and then pure cojones to hold on in the second half, a great experience to create team spirit (hence Lievremont leaving the team unchanged against Italy), no injuries and a grandslam on the way.

The Welsh as I said before are an awesome team, never reluctant to play expansive rugby and with two clinical finishers I particularly admired last nighht. When they will have sorted out their lineouts, with Phillips back and maybe a better centrepair (Roberts was good but Hook was meh), they will be something special.

:bravo: Thanks for the spectacle

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Feb 28 2010, 04:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I'm probably being over optimistic, but there is signs of a quality team here. We just need to combine this current playing style with the '08 playing style and it's be almost perfect.[/b]

I don't think you're being overoptimistic. But a 6N tournament is really short and has way too much impact on collective consciousness compared to what it really means in terms of which team is great and which team is only good. So judging by your two defeats you could think Wales are on a bad slope. I personally believe the exact contrary...

 

[Ozzay]

After watching scrum V now and calming down after friday.

We played well i think, just needs to think abit more.

Bradley Davies was immense
Leigh Halfpenny, best performance of his season
Whoever said Stephen Jones was past it, earlier needs to be shot, he played what was infront of him and was immense!
Richie Rees looked good.

I'm still not fussed on Jamie Roberts! Never have been impressed with him in the Welsh Top. Andrew Bishop?
James Hook, another intercept pass, the fact that he looked and would of seen him and threw that silly pass winds me up!
Lee Byrne made big errors.

 

[Sir Speedy]

For the record, Shane Williams is not even close to being the best winger in the world. Let's not bullshit by saying he's the only thing that makes up good, okay?

Erm, that was at Cordinaofjsoj something.

 

[Meh]

Been away all weekend and missed ALL the 6N games.

(Don't you pity me?)

Watching them all now. I don't think my heart could have taken this one though.
It's so typical Wales - only play well after you've thrown the game away.

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elgringoborracho @ Mar 1 2010, 10:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Shane's try is one of my individual all time favorites, although it doesn't beat this one. I personally think he wouldn't have scored it had the time not been over, watching it again you can see malzieu stops running after the ball like he doesn't care and then when this legend of a player has the afterburners on you don't catch him easily.[/b]

Never seen that one. Class. The commentator thought it was Clerc!

In the Wales match, Malzieu didn't play the whistle from the French knock on, and that's what allowed Williams to get his pistons pumping. What about Basta trotting back in defence after Robert's big break, just before Lieveremont took him off the field? Gatland decided at half time to put chip kicks in over his head and it worked very well. With that attitude, France may have problems against England and Italy.

Ireland for the championship! WooHoooo!

 

[dullonien]

I agree with just about all that you said there elgringoborracho. The French defense was immense in that first half. The coaches identified that we were throwing a few 50/50 passes and decided to put the pressure on out wide. This was almost a complete reversal of the game in '08, where it was Wales who committed very few to the breakdown, faning across the firld to put pressure in midfield and out wide.

At one point, when Stephen Jones chipped over the top for Jamie Roberts to gather, I thought we were going to do it. But after that moment France did very well to slow the tempo of the game around and force a couple of penalties.

France weren't at their best, but they didn't have to be!

Ozzay. Jamie Roberts certainly isn't playing the way he did on the Lions tour, but I thought he had one of his best displays for a while. Yes it was a big mistake not to pass the ball after the chip from Jones, but he'll learn from that. Unfortunately, we've yet to see both him and Hook having good games at the same time yet. Against England, Hook was immense, Scotland saw both having average games, and Friday we saw a decent performance from Roberts alongside a very poor one from Hook. I'd give this partership some time, because on paper it almost a dream pairing.

It also doesn't help that they aren;t getting ball on the front foot. In the first half the forwards weren't getting past the gainline, they weren't sucking any defenders in, so Roberts and Hook were given ball with no space and a very organised defense in front of them. In the second when the game broke up, we saw Roberts making big yardage time and again (only being stopped by an ankle tap by Basteraud on another occasion), and Hook's footballing skills coming into play after Shanes chip. Both ultimately made the wrong decisions, but it's encouraging that the breaks were made in the first case.

Bishop deserves some gametime, but he's still just a solid player imo. He's never shown anything like what Roberts showed on the Lions tour or for the Barbarians. Basically I think we need to give this partership more that three games.

 

[Jer1cho]

From a neutral perspective, this game was frikkin' awesome! Robberts why didn't you pass!?!?!?!?

I was so hoping that someone could knock France off their pedestal, but alas.

Anyway, France just seemed to take their feet off the gas completely for some reason. Their first try was a given thanks to Hook's constant desire to pass to his imaginary friends, and the second try was just hard luck i thought, as it was more a case of Trin-Duc's poaching skills than Shane's blunder. Wales do need to do something about their physicallity though. Their forwards were really getting driven backwards at the contact point, and even when they gained the upper hand it seemed like France's defence was still causing their ball-carriers to lose ground.

Also, i thought Robberts played well, but Byrne was crap. Worst kicking game i have seen from a 15 in a while. He needs to sort that out. Jones was also pretty good. France's Harinorduqay was very good as well, and they had a good scrum as usual. Jauzion i also thought had a solid game.

One thing that annoyed me though, were those goddamn Welsh commentators. FFS. After the Welsh try that Halfpenny scored they sounded like they were going to cry.

'NOOT AGAIN!' .... 'OH WALES, DONT DO THIS TO US!' ... 'WHAT A TEAM THIS IS!' ...

Wow it annoyed the crap out of me.

 

[Nickdnz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ Mar 1 2010, 10:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

From a neutral perspective, this game was frikkin' awesome! Robberts why didn't you pass!?!?!?!?

I was so hoping that someone could knock France off their pedestal, but alas.

Anyway, France just seemed to take their feet off the gas completely for some reason. Their first try was a given thanks to Hook's constant desire to pass to his imaginary friends, and the second try was just hard luck i thought, as it was more a case of Trin-Duc's poaching skills than Shane's blunder. Wales do need to do something about their physicallity though. Their forwards were really getting driven backwards at the contact point, and even when they gained the upper hand it seemed like France's defence was still causing their ball-carriers to lose ground.

Also, i thought Robberts played well, but Byrne was crap. Worst kicking game i have seen from a 15 in a while. He needs to sort that out. Jones was also pretty good. France's Harinorduqay was very good as well, and they had a good scrum as usual. Jauzion i also thought had a solid game.

One thing that annoyed me though, were those goddamn Welsh commentators. FFS. After the Welsh try that Halfpenny scored they sounded like they were going to cry.

'NOOT AGAIN!' .... 'OH WALES, DONT DO THIS TO US!' ... 'WHAT A TEAM THIS IS!' ...

Wow it annoyed the crap out of me.[/b]

Try listening to the before and after match commentator from ESPN. You can hear the pauses from where he's looking up the names. He sounds like William Shatner. "As you can see...(pause of 5+ seconds)...Halfpenny...scored....quite a try. This...was the turning...point." And when there is a try he says "Oh no he did-unt, Oh no he did-unt". Most annoying commentator I've ever heard. I actually put the volume on mute.

 

[dullonien]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ Mar 1 2010, 09:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

From a neutral perspective, this game was frikkin' awesome! Robberts why didn't you pass!?!?!?!?

I was so hoping that someone could knock France off their pedestal, but alas.

Anyway, France just seemed to take their feet off the gas completely for some reason. Their first try was a given thanks to Hook's constant desire to pass to his imaginary friends, and the second try was just hard luck i thought, as it was more a case of Trin-Duc's poaching skills than Shane's blunder. Wales do need to do something about their physicallity though. Their forwards were really getting driven backwards at the contact point, and even when they gained the upper hand it seemed like France's defence was still causing their ball-carriers to lose ground.

Also, i thought Robberts played well, but Byrne was crap. Worst kicking game i have seen from a 15 in a while. He needs to sort that out. Jones was also pretty good. France's Harinorduqay was very good as well, and they had a good scrum as usual. Jauzion i also thought had a solid game.

One thing that annoyed me though, were those goddamn Welsh commentators. FFS. After the Welsh try that Halfpenny scored they sounded like they were going to cry.

'NOOT AGAIN!' .... 'OH WALES, DONT DO THIS TO US!' ... 'WHAT A TEAM THIS IS!' ...

Wow it annoyed the crap out of me.[/b]

Agree about Roberts. But slightly disagree about Byrne. He wasn't great under the high ball (not usual for him) and missed those two kicks to touch, but apart from that he was awesome. He made a few nice breaks, showing some good steps in doing so, and the rest of his kicking game was superb. Some of his clearance kicks were immense, from our 22 to France's 22. The same can be said for a few of his penalty touch finders aswell which made massive ground from zero angle. Saying all that though, those two missed touch finders are unforgivable, and ultimately means no matter how good the rest of his game was, he cost Wales dearly.

One of the commentators was English, but Jonathan Davies was getting a little carried away. But can you blame him? I was shouting the exact same thing in the pub, whilst almost having a heart attack! We've had three very intense games, and I'm sure every Welsh fan was wishing they didn't have to leave it so god damn late.