Wales (The Gatland returns thread)

[TommiG88]

Strange as there's no media uproar in relation of poaching players when it's the other way round….

 

[dullonien]

I'm a saints fan and have no love for tigers players but this can't be further from the truth. Reffell is still a menace at the breakdown and has loads of opportunity to jackle and while players don't release as much he's great at getting a penalty for their team. He's a brilliant player.

The only thing with him being a traditional 7, is you will need your 6 and 8 to be more traditional to balance the back row.

This may be true in the premiership, but at international level most ref's just seem to hesitant to reward the defending side. If a tackler is a split second late rollibg away, or rolls towards the players coming to clean out/9, they'll be pinged even if they've had no real impact to the jackal. Also if the jackling player isn't perfect a ref will often find a reasob to penalise them.

I don't really remember the last time Reffell's fetching had any real impact on a Wales game. He may get 1 or 2 turnovers/pens max, but then conpare to the all-round impact a player like Basham can have on a game with his explosive carrying, footwork etc. and I wonder if he'd be a better option.

It's a shame in some ways, as I've always loved a good jackal, and there's just not many around anymore.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Strange as there's no media uproar in relation of poaching players when it's the other way round….

Which player(s) are you talking about?

 

[Welsh Exile]

This may be true in the premiership, but at international level most ref's just seem to hesitant to reward the defending side. If a tackler is a split second late rollibg away, or rolls towards the players coming to clean out/9, they'll be pinged even if they've had no real impact to the jackal. Also if the jackling player isn't perfect a ref will often find a reasob to penalise them.

I don't really remember the last time Reffell's fetching had any real impact on a Wales game. He may get 1 or 2 turnovers/pens max, but then conpare to the all-round impact a player like Basham can have on a game with his explosive carrying, footwork etc. and I wonder if he'd be a better option.

It's a shame in some ways, as I've always loved a good jackal, and there's just not many around anymore.

Personally I would play him at 6 and have Morgan at 7 but @Don't Skip Leg Day makes a fair point about back row balance and I'm not sure Reffell, Morgan Wainwright strikes that balance and whether you would need that more traditional, bigger 6. I would've had Basham in the squad all day, though. As you say, probably over Botham but again, I can see why Gats has gone for a Botham type.

The thing that really annoys me is no Lloyd and to be honest, he's never getting selected by Gatland now unless we have a serious injury problem at 10.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Probably Freddie Thomas, whose Welsh grandparents means he's grown up wanting to play for Wales his whole life
(just ignore his twitter profile picture of him playing for England against Wales)


tbf he was never going to play for England, so not that fussed about it

 

[Welsh Exile]

Probably Freddie Thomas, whose Welsh grandparents means he's grown up wanting to play for Wales his whole life
(just ignore his twitter profile picture of him playing for England against WalesView attachment 21453)


tbf he was never going to play for England, so not that fussed about it

2 sets of Welsh grandparents. His dad is Welsh and his mums mum was Welsh as well. Grew up his whole life supporting wales, considering himself Welsh, and wanting to play for wales.

According to his dad the only reason he played age grade for England was out of respect to them for England taking such good care of him when he was injured and he wanted to repay the faith but as you say, he was never going to play for England as he's always considered himself as Welsh. How on earth that is classified as stealing an English player is beyond me tbh.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Wales Online said he has three Welsh grandparents but his parents were born and raised in England

How on earth that is classified as stealing an English player is beyond me tbh.

Full English academy and age grade, never played a second of WRU rugby?

Who cares though, really, international rugby's a full mess - he's the least of anyone's worries when you've got players like Hoskins Sotutu aiming to switch to England

 

[Welsh Exile]

Wales Online said he has three Welsh grandparents but his parents were born and raised in England

Full English academy and age grade, never played a second of WRU rugby?

Who cares though, really, international rugby's a full mess - he's the least of anyone's worries when you've got players like Hoskins Sotutu aiming to switch to England

But where this logic of "we've developed a player so therefore they're ours" leads is you have to be English, it doesn't matter how you feel, what your ancestry is, it's totally irrelevant that more of your genetic makeup is Welsh than English it doesn't matter, you went to school and/or played age grade in England then you are English. Just seems completely ridiculous to me. I know you're not bothered but it really annoys me actually. A kid who's grown up Welsh (yes you can do that in another country) has supported wales his whole life, has dreamed of playing for Wales and his blood is more Welsh than English but that is considered stealing. Nah, he's coming home. lol.

 

[ncurd]

But where this logic of "we've developed a player so therefore they're ours" leads is you have to be English, it doesn't matter how you feel, what your ancestry is, it's totally irrelevant that more of your genetic makeup is Welsh than English it doesn't matter, you went to school and/or played age grade in England then you are English. Just seems completely ridiculous to me. I know you're not bothered but it really annoys me actually. A kid who's grown up Welsh (yes you can do that in another country) has supported wales his whole life, has dreamed of playing for Wales and his blood is more Welsh than English but that is considered stealing. Nah, he's coming home. lol.

I think "why play age grade England" then? Is a legitimate thing. Can't help but feel if he was capable of England selection the tune would be diffrent unless you can fine quotes from the past.

I don't particularly care too much other than I'm not a fan of grandparent(s) being a qualifying factor preferring residency. But those aren't the rules and its more when people have very dubious links.

 

[ncurd]

My view is more because of the Brad Shields types

 

[Welsh Exile]

I think "why play age grade England" then? Is a legitimate thing. Can't help but feel if he was capable of England selection the tune would be diffrent unless you can fine quotes from the past.

I don't particularly care too much other than I'm not a fan of grandparent(s) being a qualifying factor preferring residency. But those aren't the rules and it's more when people have very dubious links.

Apparently he only played age grade for England due to them looking after him well when he was injured so he felt an obligation to repay the faith they showed in him. His dad talked to Hayward at the time (who was tapping him up) and assured him he only wants to play for Wales.

All the quotes* suggest he never would've played for England even if he had been offered a place in the team. I don't like a single grandparent (like Tompkins) but when it's 3 out of 4 it's a bit different.

*"
"I've always seen myself as being Welsh," he tells WalesOnline. "When I was growing up I felt a lot prouder to be Welsh than English.

My dad's parents are both from Swansea while my grandmother on my mother's side is also Welsh. We have a family house in north-west Wales in Dolgellau which I visit as often as I can.

"My dad used to regularly take me to watch Wales play at the Principality Stadium. There were no split loyalties when Wales played England in the Six Nations. I was one of only two Welsh boys in my school

"When Wales were winning between 2011-13 I was lapping it up, especially in 2013 when they stuffed England 30-3. I remember coming into school the next day where we had rugby training wearing my red underskin with Welsh things on it.


Yes, it's definitely something I'd consider," said Thomas when asked if he'd consider signing for one of Wales' four professional clubs. "Whenever I speak to my dad to get his thoughts he always says he wants me to live in Wales and understand the culture before I played for Wales.

"It's definitely something I'd have a look at. I wouldn't turn it down if the right opportunity came up."

 

[Welsh Exile]

assuming everything he says is true there (and there's no reason to think he's not) then I wholly reject the term stealing. Fine with a Tompkins type with just one Welsh grandparent and has never , as every Welsh person knows, felt Welsh in anyway but this guy, 3 Welsh grandparents, brought up Welsh, loves wales. Its apples and oranges when compared to your Nick Tompkins' of the world.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Way to **** on his club haha, can't imagine Gloucester will be fighting to keep him when his contract's up

 

[Welsh Exile]

Way to **** on his club haha, can't imagine Gloucester will be fighting to keep him when his contract's up

I wouldn't say he's ******** on them by saying he'd consider the right opportunity if it came up. Playing for Wales is obviously a dream of his, I can't see Gloucester getting arsey with him because of that.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Plus Gloucester have enough Welsh players to make up for it. Lol.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Apologies all, I've been spouting fake news. I mistakenly said the only reason Thomas played age grade for England was due to an injury and his dad told Hayward that he always intended to play for Wales. This story is true but it's not related to Freddie Thomas. I got him mixed up with a young center at Bristol called Joe Jenkins. He's another one that considers himself Welsh but for clarity the stuff I said about the only reason he played for England under 20 was due to injury and loyalty reasons related to Joe Jenkins not Freddie Thomas.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I don't know what he's going to do in the centers, 1 of the wings or TH but I think the rest is pretty much nailed on against Fiji:

Thomas Lake Asserati
Beard Rowlands
Plumtree Morgan
Wainwright

Tomos
Anscombe
Grady
Thomas
Watkin
Dyer
Winnett

He could go for any of our tight heads, 6 is up in the air, he could go Tshiunza but I don't think he will. Will Hrasy be on the wing, not sure but think he will end up there and I think he'll for for the security of Watkin who, tbf, has looked decent this season with some better attacking play (I wouldn't have him in my matchday squad though) Anscombe is absolutely nailed on, I'll be amazed if he gets through 1 game, let alone 3, but Gats is building for the future.

 

[dullonien]

I've seen a number of reports suggeating that young Welsh players at English academies/clubs are 'encouraged' or 'required' to represent England at U20 level.

There's been plenty of examples where this isn't the case e.g. Jonny Green recently who plays for Harlequins, but represented Wales at U20. So I'm not sure how true it all is...

 

[TommiG88]

Which player(s) are you talking about?

Freddie Thomas. Born in England, England youth teams, plays in the English league, qualifies via grandparents

Never heard the end Feyi Waboso when he picked by to play for England for about 3 months.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I would go for

Smith Lake Griffin
Tshiunza Rowlands
Reffell Morgan
Wainwright

Tomos
Costelow *
Grady
Thomas
Llewellyn
Dyer
Winnett

Lloyd, Thomas, Asserati, Freddie Thomas, Plumtree, Bevan, Anscombe, Murray

*I wouldn't have him in the squad but seeing as he is and Gatland seems set on him then he should play. I honestly don't see the point in Anscombe playing. I doubt he'll last the series and even if he did he's old.