Wales summer Tour of Australia (and 1 off match against SA)

[Welsh Exile]

Alex King can **** off as well to be honest.

 

[Welsh Exile]

He picked 2 fly halfs that dont play fly half... he mentioned Thomas (who should be a fly half) and Beetham who has barely played pro rugby and played 10 at age grade.

But who are his options Evan's, Sheedy, Costelow, Lloyd, Cai Evan's, Edward's, Walsh, Reed... average height of 5'6 and none can defend at club level. Edward's I'll give a pass too, but none of the others can compete, Costelow has proved over and over a game loser.

First of all, they're not 5,6 at least according to online.

Secondly, even if that were true those are his options, there's no point moaning about it and throwing his toys out going oh we've got so many small fly halves. Embrace it, adapt your game, other countries have had small fly halves before you know but he can't let go of having a warrior like Biggar at 10 because he doesn't know anything else. Probably par of the reason why he struggled so much with the chiefs and getting them to pay a game that didn't suit them.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Costellow's defense is the least of my worries! He misses the odd tackle, but is a brave defender to often leads the defensive line and chops guys down. It's the rest of his game that's an issue!

We need to be picking players a 10 for how they control the game, and organise the backline/attack. Defense is very much an added bonus on top. The likes of George Ford, Bauden Barrett, Jalibert aren't big players, or dominant tacklers, but the defensive organisation can cover them sufficiently to allow them to do what they do best on the other side of the ball.

As for Italy having a better squad than us. I'd agree, because they're more settled and more experienced. But that's because they have persevered with certain players who have come good over many seasons. Take Garbisi at 10 - always had potential, but was full of errors for a while at the beginning. In comparison, we had an opportunity to develop someone like Jarrod Evans, who as a youngster was steering Cardifg to European glory (only challenge cup, but still) with some great attacking displays, keeping both Patchell and Anscombe out of the starting 10 position. A few holes in his game, and we drop/ignore him to a point that he got fed up and left Welsh rugby!

This goes pack to Pivac as well, so it's not all on Gatland. But we can't expect to compete quite yet with so many rookies in so many positions. I have hope that there's a lot of potential qiality in this squad, but that's all it is atm, potential. It'll be another couple of years of hurt I think before we can expect any results. The hope is that come the next world cup we can be competative again when these rookies have 25-30 caps each.

Pivac was the one who really ****** up Lloyds development. Imagine if we had persisted with him when he made his debut 4 years ago rather than freezing him out.

 

[Flankers' paradise]

As an Englishman I really worry for your prospects looking at this squad. Tompkins has been dog*&^% for a while whereas Jonny Williams has loads to offer at 12. It's a huge shame Joe Roberts is injured because I think he could have really nailed down 13 on this tour.I see the logic in not wanting two small 10s but when only one of them is in good form it's nuts to not select that one - I wonder if he's looking towards Thomas as a potential starter...your lock stocks aren't looking great and I will be far from suprised if SA absolutely pulverize you. The only real positives seem to be the return of Lake, Morgan and Plumtree along with Cam Winnett keeping his place I just hope he retains the 15 jersey

 

[Welsh Exile]

As an Englishman I really worry for your prospects looking at this squad. Tompkins has been dog*&^% for a while whereas Jonny Williams has loads to offer at 12. It's a huge shame Joe Roberts is injured because I think he could have really nailed down 13 on this tour.I see the logic in not wanting two small 10s but when only one of them is in good form it's nuts to not select that one - I wonder if he's looking towards Thomas as a potential starter...your lock stocks aren't looking great and I will be far from suprised if SA absolutely pulverize you. The only real positives seem to be the return of Lake, Morgan and Plumtree along with Cam Winnett keeping his place I just hope he retains the 15 jersey

Lock stocks actually aren't that bad. Rowlands has obviously been rested and we have other younger players injured like Fender and Rhys Davies who have potential. Then, if you listened to me the master tactician, we would be looking At Tshiunza in the row and then you even have my favourite player Adam Beard who also misses out through injury.

Not willing to even have a look at taking Jonny Williams, James or Kieran Williams is another bad call by Gatland, though o agree, and it's one of his many contradictions that he's looking to build depth when just playing same old players we already know a lot about. As @dullonien said, though, we can't play an entire team full of rookies so it is a balancing act but what's more counter productive is doing this half way ground where you give some some inexperienced players 1 or 2 games and then cast them aside. That's not building depth.

 

[dirty harry]

You still haven't explained to me how Clayton McMillan literally won all his games when he took over from Gatland at the chiefs. You know, that same side that Gatland lost every single one of his games and looking like a semi pro NZ side (a side that had 2 genuine world class players at the time in Cane and Mackenzie) Sound familiar? As I say, coaches are meant to get the best out of individuals and get a unit performing greater than the sum of their parts. He massively failed to do that at chiefs (look at their trajectory now) and he's failing to do that with Wales.

My position is that pretty much any coach would get these players playing to a higher standard but, more importantly, would create a unit that was greater than the sum of its parts. Literally the number one job of any manager in any sport. We're not going anywhere with him at the helm. We're just getting talk about small fly halves, well news flash, Beetham isn't big either.

Ok let's just be factual...

Cooper decimated that Cheifs team, and Gatland came in and won 5/6? Maybe 4/6 I cant fully remember, before 8 losses on the bounce, most of which by LBP margins, 2/3 at the death. Cane was I jured most of that season, but even if he wasnt, Cheifs had the weakest NZ team.

Gatlands record was what, 4 -10? McMillan came in and benefitted form the 4/5 very good young players stepping up, he went 9-5? That season.

Let's be real, Gatland had a very young squad, was meant to build for the future but bugged off with the lions after the first, and then returned in a different role. Cheifs coaches, management and players all talked positively about his influence.

 

[dirty harry]

Costellow's defense is the least of my worries! He misses the odd tackle, but is a brave defender to often leads the defensive line and chops guys down. It's the rest of his game that's an issue!

We need to be picking players a 10 for how they control the game, and organise the backline/attack. Defense is very much an added bonus on top. The likes of George Ford, Bauden Barrett, Jalibert aren't big players, or dominant tacklers, but the defensive organisation can cover them sufficiently to allow them to do what they do best on the other side of the ball.

As for Italy having a better squad than us. I'd agree, because they're more settled and more experienced. But that's because they have persevered with certain players who have come good over many seasons. Take Garbisi at 10 - always had potential, but was full of errors for a while at the beginning. In comparison, we had an opportunity to develop someone like Jarrod Evans, who as a youngster was steering Cardifg to European glory (only challenge cup, but still) with some great attacking displays, keeping both Patchell and Anscombe out of the starting 10 position. A few holes in his game, and we drop/ignore him to a point that he got fed up and left Welsh rugby!

This goes pack to Pivac as well, so it's not all on Gatland. But we can't expect to compete quite yet with so many rookies in so many positions. I have hope that there's a lot of potential qiality in this squad, but that's all it is atm, potential. It'll be another couple of years of hurt I think before we can expect any results. The hope is that come the next world cup we can be competative again when these rookies have 25-30 caps each.

You are becoming my comfort blanket lol.

Italy arent better than us man for man because they are settled, they are better than us because they have a better quality of player.

Dee, Hill, Davies, Costelow, Watkins, Tompkins and co arent unsettled, theyve been around for years, they just arent good. Add to that the kids who are massively inexperienced and flawed, Lloyd, Jenkins, Tshiunsa, Bevan, Grady, Beetham, Hathaway and co, but the saddest part is the selection of poor quality players who haven't made the grade, but are selected by default, Parry, Griffin, Screech, Thomas and Giles. This is the real issue, none of these players get in the Georgia team, let alone a 6N squad!!!

 

[dirty harry]

How many times exactly has Thomas played 10 in the last couple of years? A handful? How many times this season? Zero would be my guess. I have zero interest in whether a player played a position when he was 9 years old especially when we have actual fly halves like Jarrod Evans who've played there their entire career.

Ben Thomas has deputised lots this season, I'd estimate 4/5 games he stepped in and 2 starts. As he did last season. He should have been converted 5 years ago when he started to get game time.

 

[dirty harry]

First of all, they're not 5,6 at least according to online.

Secondly, even if that were true those are his options, there's no point moaning about it and throwing his toys out going oh we've got so many small fly halves. Embrace it, adapt your game, other countries have had small fly halves before you know but he can't let go of having a warrior like Biggar at 10 because he doesn't know anything else. Probably par of the reason why he struggled so much with the chiefs and getting them to pay a game that didn't suit them.

There is not point moaning about it... but there is also no point persisting with them once they prove not good enough. None of those above are good enough. And I was exaggerating their height, they all range what 5'7 to 5'10.

As I've said small players can be good, but none of these small players are, they are all just small.

 

[dirty harry]

Pivac was the one who really ****** up Lloyds development. Imagine if we had persisted with him when he made his debut 4 years ago rather than freezing him out.

Pivac is a very good point. He obliterated confidence in the team, and really mismanaged a number of young talented players.

 

[dirty harry]

Lock stocks actually aren't that bad. Rowlands has obviously been rested and we have other younger players injured like Fender and Rhys Davies who have potential. Then, if you listened to me the master tactician, we would be looking At Tshiunza in the row and then you even have my favourite player Adam Beard who also misses out through injury.

Not willing to even have a look at taking Jonny Williams, James or Kieran Williams is another bad call by Gatland, though o agree, and it's one of his many contradictions that he's looking to build depth when just playing same old players we already know a lot about. As @dullonien said, though, we can't play an entire team full of rookies so it is a balancing act but what's more counter productive is doing this half way ground where you give some some inexperienced players 1 or 2 games and then cast them aside. That's not building depth.

I agree here, we have a big list of decent and potential in the row. Beard, Rowlands, Hill (who was 1st choice above both until, well you know he drunkenly attacked a rando womans house and fled the country), Jenkins, Fender, Carter, William's, and I agree Tshiunsas future lies there.

I also really like Johnny William's, but he just seems to be one of those players who fails when he steps up. Portugal in the world cup his most recent failure.

Keiran William's is good but too limited, i would add though that maybe Gats could do something with him. Id prefer to see him and James instead of Tompkins!

 

[Welsh Exile]

I got a lot of time for you @dirty harry. I want to strangle you half the time but I might need a step ladder to do it to be fair.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Gatland has defeated me. I'm at the acceptance stage of grief now and I don't know if I have the energy anymore.

 

[dirty harry]

I got a lot of time for you @dirty harry. I want to strangle you half the time but I might need a step ladder to do it to be fair.

You've been talking to my missus!!!!

I see it is we are both in a hardcore depression, after the wonderful generation of Welsh rugby it's hard to see such a poor squad, and a return to wooden spoons!

The only difference between us is, although we both blame the WRU we have both zero'd in on different targets. You see potential in the squad suppressed by Gatland and his crony coaches, whereas I see little potential in the squad and allow more grace to Gats and his crony coaches.

Dont get me wrong, hes not blameless whatsoever, and his attitude reflects the Welsh publics, it was also depressing to see the same tired old coaching team sat around on judgement day.

 

[dirty harry]

Gatland has defeated me. I'm at the acceptance stage of grief now and I don't know if I have the energy anymore.

This is exactly what the WRU have done to me. Every decision financial, or politically motivated, and every decision harms our sport at every level, I would literally have made nearly every decision the opposite that they have!

 

[dirty harry]

Gatland has defeated me. I'm at the acceptance stage of grief now and I don't know if I have the energy anymore.

We have to look on the bright side...

We arent Scotland, 25 years from a last trophy, and a golden generation of players challenging for 3rd place and trying to get out of RWC groups hahahahahaha

 

[Welsh Exile]

Ohhhhh, some good news, Eddie James has been called up.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Gatland said he's willing to go through the pain and develop our younger players. Except for Lloyd obviously

 

[dirty harry]

Gatland said he's willing to go through the pain and develop our younger players. Except for Lloyd obviously

Which Lloyd? I believe there is already a young one going lol

 

[Welsh Exile]

Well bugger me with a fish fork. Regan Grace has been called up. Giles injured.