Wales summer Tour of Australia (and 1 off match against SA)

[dullonien]

I'd have even taking the Reed kid at Dragons over Costelow at the moment.

Dunno, that's maybe pushing it too far. Will Reed doesn't look up to it either, full of mistakes. Costellow showed prelnty of promise when he first joined Scarlets from Leicester, but the shitshow that is the Scarlets seems to have really affected him.

 

[Welsh Exile]

One 10?

The thinking behind that is looking at some other options, some depth at 10. Looking at a player who can play in a different position. There's some good 10s in Wales, but they're not big. We're looking for that. Maybe someone like Ben Thomas or Jacob Beetham. We know Ben has had a couple of games there.

I mean what the actual ****. We're looking to build depth so we pick one 10. We want a big 10 so I pick 2 small 10s (one isn't even a 10) and now Beetham is a 10 now. He's trolling. He has to be.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I hate the WRU so much. Words can't describe.

 

[Welsh Exile]

This is what we'll see as a backline

9. Davies
10. Costelow
11. Hathaway
12. Tompkins
13. Watkin
14. Dyer
15. Winnett.

**** my life.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Trying to be a bit more positive, hopefully we see:

Thomas
Lake
Assiratti
Jenkins
Tshiunza
Morgan
Reffell
Wainwright

Bevan (might as well)
Thomas
Hathaway
Tompkins
Grady
Giles
Winnett

Subs: Lloyd, Domachowski, Lewis, Carter, Martin, Davies, Costelow, Giles

 

[dirty harry]

Ok, wanted to get a word in before the clot pops @welshonce and for all (I feel your pain btw).

I have some criticisms of this squad, but I also understand the risks taken here.

1. Costelow is rubbish, everyone has argued against me for 2 years, but people are finally jumping on board. I dont know if it's how shite the Scarlets are, and has destroyed him, or whether he just isnt up to it, but he is genuinely a bad kicker of a ball, bad ball player, non runner and defensive liability... at club level. I would have dropped him and taken Lloyd, or certainly Edward's.
Ben Thomas has benefited from Wales having no 10's. I get what Gatland is saying about size, Costelow, Lloyd, Reed, Edward's, are all speed bumps at club level.
Beetham has played a lot of 10 and 15 but all at age grade. What is it with Gatland selecting players who havnt even appeared at pro level lol
Let's be real though, by a country mile the best 10 in Wales is a semi pro South African.

2. I'm happy he has rested a load of players, Adam's career may well be over, hes been injured for years. Some players need a summer off,

3. Massive and deserved congrats to Bevan, his delivery is superb, left foot getting better and the biggest compliment I could give is that when Tomos announced was leaving I wasnt worried. Bevan has been developing nicely this year.

4. Lock crisis... Matthew f#$@%& Screech? I'd rather have seen Ratti, Lewis Hughes, hell even Seb Davies (yes I know).

Finally, the biggest issue I have, is selecting young players in the international set up is meant to improve them, but if your entire international squad is kids and journey men what realistically can they learn? I get that Gatlands standards will be far superior to any of the semi pro coaches in Wales (Booth aside), and the experience will help, but what is say Ben Thomas or Beetham or maybe even Winnett going to learn from Costelow?!?!?!?!
What is Grady going to learn from Giles?!?!?!

This is going to be a horror tour, we are massively underpowered up front, with hugely flawed players in behind, and for the life of me I dont see where the turn of the ship is coming from.

The WRU prioritising money over rugby on judgement day, wanting Pink to rehearse and condemning us to Yma o Hyd for 2 hours, the community game ripped to peices, and 4 professional teams losing anyone who wants more than minimum wage, and parachuting kids with literally 0 match experience outside of age grade in to the URC teams, then forced into internationally rugby.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Ok, wanted to get a word in before the clot pops @welshonce and for all (I feel your pain btw).

I have some criticisms of this squad, but I also understand the risks taken here.

1. Costelow is rubbish, everyone has argued against me for 2 years, but people are finally jumping on board. I dont know if it's how shite the Scarlets are, and has destroyed him, or whether he just isnt up to it, but he is genuinely a bad kicker of a ball, bad ball player, non runner and defensive liability... at club level. I would have dropped him and taken Lloyd, or certainly Edward's.
Ben Thomas has benefited from Wales having no 10's. I get what Gatland is saying about size, Costelow, Lloyd, Reed, Edward's, are all speed bumps at club level.
Beetham has played a lot of 10 and 15 but all at age grade. What is it with Gatland selecting players who havnt even appeared at pro level lol
Let's be real though, by a country mile the best 10 in Wales is a semi pro South African.

2. I'm happy he has rested a load of players, Adam's career may well be over, hes been injured for years. Some players need a summer off,

3. Massive and deserved congrats to Bevan, his delivery is superb, left foot getting better and the biggest compliment I could give is that when Tomos announced was leaving I wasnt worried. Bevan has been developing nicely this year.

4. Lock crisis... Matthew f#$@%& Screech? I'd rather have seen Ratti, Lewis Hughes, hell even Seb Davies (yes I know).

Finally, the biggest issue I have, is selecting young players in the international set up is meant to improve them, but if your entire international squad is kids and journey men what realistically can they learn? I get that Gatlands standards will be far superior to any of the semi pro coaches in Wales (Booth aside), and the experience will help, but what is say Ben Thomas or Beetham or maybe even Winnett going to learn from Costelow?!?!?!?!
What is Grady going to learn from Giles?!?!?!

This is going to be a horror tour, we are massively underpowered up front, with hugely flawed players in behind, and for the life of me I dont see where the turn of the ship is coming from.

The WRU prioritising money over rugby on judgement day, wanting Pink to rehearse and condemning us to Yma o Hyd for 2 hours, the community game ripped to peices, and 4 professional teams losing anyone who wants more than minimum wage, and parachuting kids with literally 0 match experience outside of age grade in to the URC teams, then forced into internationally rugby.

For the record I've never said Costelow is great and even acknowledged he's off it but he's young and neeeded time. That's what I'm going back on now, especially when you have Jarrod Evans and Lloyd who, for different reasons, actually have something about them. Even Edwards' form warrants a place over Costelow.

Lloyd must be fuming, I said at the time that moving to the scarlets was the worst thing for his career and while I still think that's right it's ultimately Gatland that is the problem.

 

[Welsh Exile]

The other really depressing thing is that no matter what, Gatland is here until the next WC.

We could lose all 3 games this summer (we will) and get another wooden spoon next 6N and you'd still have Nigel Walker saying how Gatland is the best coach in the world. Alright Nige, it's not 2010 anymore.

 

[dullonien]

I can understand some of the experienced selections behind, like Gareth Davies, Hardy, Watkin, Tompkins and Liam Williams. In many cases there's a good argument for other players like Morgan-Williams, Eddie James, Kieran Williams, Cobango; but we can't have a backline full of rookies!

 

[dirty harry]

For the record I've never said Costelow is great and even acknowledged he's off it but he's young and neeeded time. That's what I'm going back on now, especially when you have Jarrod Evans and Lloyd who, for different reasons, actually have something about them. Even Edwards' form warrants a place over Costelow.

Lloyd must be fuming, I said at the time that moving to the scarlets was the worst thing for his career and while I still think that's right it's ultimately Gatland that is the problem.

I have to agree regarding Lloyd, it made no sense going to the Scarlets originally, and his stock has nose dived this season. I dont rate him as highly as most, but I'd have him over Costelow 100% of the time.

I havnt seen too much of Jarod Evan's this season, hows he doing? Either way Edward's has shown enough IMO, so much more so than Beetham, few appearances in last few years.

 

[dirty harry]

The other really depressing thing is that no matter what, Gatland is here until the next WC.

We could lose all 3 games this summer (we will) and get another wooden spoon next 6N and you'd still have Nigel Walker saying how Gatland is the best coach in the world. Alright Nige, it's not 2010 anymore.

I think your being harsh on Gats here, there isnt a coach in the world who could do anything with the playing staff available to Wales currently. I'm not saying Gatland is doing great, but it was a brave move to return really, knowing the **** show the WRU have been. Hes here, and hes put his reputation on the line to turn the ship, I just dont know if it's possible by anyone

 

[dirty harry]

I can understand some of the experienced selections behind, like Gareth Davies, Hardy, Watkin, Tompkins and Liam Williams. In many cases there's a good argument for other players like Morgan-Williams, Eddie James, Kieran Williams, Cobango; but we can't have a backline full of rookies!

Cabango is injured, Morgan Williams isnt ready, I dont think William's will make international rugby.

 

[dullonien]

I have to agree regarding Lloyd, it made no sense going to the Scarlets originally, and his stock has nose dived this season. I dont rate him as highly as most, but I'd have him over Costelow 100% of the time.

I havnt seen too much of Jarod Evan's this season, hows he doing? Either way Edward's has shown enough IMO, so much more so than Beetham, few appearances in last few years.

I think Jarrod Evans has only played a bit-part role for Harlequins due to a combination of injury and being a ******* moron for chosing to go to a club with a young prodige at 10. Harlequins were never going to drop their poster boy. Surely there were other options where he had a fighting chance of being first choice?

 

[dirty harry]

I think Jarrod Evans has only played a bit-part role for Harlequins due to a combination of injury and being a ******* moron for chosing to go to a club with a young prodige at 10. Harlequins were never going to drop their poster boy. Surely there were other options where he had a fighting chance of being first choice?

I think first choice at a pro club was out of Evan's reach. The quins offer was a shock to most, dont blame him for taking it, he really did show his Wales ambitions by leaving. De Beer is a far better player, and is raw and Improving... 2 more years?

 

[Welsh Exile]

I think your being harsh on Gats here, there isnt a coach in the world who could do anything with the playing staff available to Wales currently. I'm not saying Gatland is doing great, but it was a brave move to return really, knowing the **** show the WRU have been. Hes here, and hes put his reputation on the line to turn the ship, I just dont know if it's possible by anyone

I honestly think most other coaches would be doing a better job than Gatland. Hes stuck in 2008. Any young, progressive coach would have us playing better and more competitive. Would they get us into the top 4 again? No, would they have us looking at back to back wooden spoons like Gatland, in my opinion no.

 

[Welsh Exile]

You just have to listen to him, he's like a broken record. Everything is about size and fitness. There's no talk of skills or changing our style of play to try and emulate other top nations. It's the same **** he was saying in 2008.

I tell you what, and I'm honestly not joking here. Watching the ospreys Cardiff game I'd have Tipuric at fly half over Costelow any day of the week.

 

[dirty harry]

I honestly think most other coaches would be doing a better job than Gatland. Hes stuck in 2008. Any young, progressive coach would have us playing better and more competitive. Would they get us into the top 4 again? No, would they have us looking at back to back wooden spoons like Gatland, in my opinion no.

Really?

The fringe players who I think were living off better players around them are now the first teamers, Thomas, Davies, Costelow, Tompkins and co arent good quality. They are flawed players who can add to a good squad, but not build around them, well not in first tier rugby anyway.

How exactly can Gatland be more competitive, with an underpowered tight 5, totally unbalanced back row options, no 10 that can do the basics, and limited players outside him.

Who exactly are the world stars in this Wales team? Where is the beef? Where are the weapons? We have a tier 2 squad playing tier 1 nations

 

[dirty harry]

You just have to listen to him, he's like a broken record. Everything is about size and fitness. There's no talk of skills or changing our style of play to try and emulate other top nations. It's the same **** he was saying in 2008.

I tell you what, and I'm honestly not joking here. Watching the ospreys Cardiff game I'd have Tipuric at fly half over Costelow any day of the week.

I actually would have liked a Tipuric selection, he still has the sharpness and head on him, we are lacking that.

I think hes talking about the same issues as 2008 but in different context. Back then he was talking about dominating teams, being brutal and using our power game, today hes talking about keeping up with the likes of Italy, knowing we are going to be physically dominated.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Really?

The fringe players who I think were living off better players around them are now the first teamers, Thomas, Davies, Costelow, Tompkins and co arent good quality. They are flawed players who can add to a good squad, but not build around them, well not in first tier rugby anyway.

How exactly can Gatland be more competitive, with an underpowered tight 5, totally unbalanced back row options, no 10 that can do the basics, and limited players outside him.

Who exactly are the world stars in this Wales team? Where is the beef? Where are the weapons? We have a tier 2 squad playing tier 1 nations

By not playing a brand of rugby that plays to our weaknesses, ie like Jospeh at Japan

Chiefs looked like dogshit as well when he was coaching them. Not only did they start winning every game they played as soon as they moved him upstairs but they totally changed the way they were playing under Gatland.

We've not got loads of world class players anymore admittedly but a coaches main job is to get the most out of the resources he has available to him. Do you honestly, hand on heart, think he's doing that now? We know he wasn't doing that at the chiefs. That's proven beyond any shadow of a doubt. And what exactly has he done since then, got us a wooden spoon with no signs of light at the end of the tunnel. Nah, it's not all on the players.

In fact I'd take that Clayton what his name now if it was down to me. Gatland is rugbys Mourinho, he's yesterday's man still stuck in decades gone by and the game has moved on. I also don't think the players are all brought in either, so I not only question his tactics and game management but his man management to.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I'd also add that Gatland doesn't seem like the same Gatland. Way more negative and depressed than usual and any behind scenes stuff he just seems soooooo uninspiring. I mean, I know we can't have a breakdancing coach but is to much to ask to have a bit of charisma?