(Very) early thoughts on the 2017 Lions

[RedruthRFC]

I'm probably goint to get a bit slated for this. But Sean O'Brien had a kind of average to poor 6 Nations. Personally I think he's still highly rated due to few years ago form. By no means done or anything. But anyway majority acknowledge that bit.

I believe that this is a direct consequence of a certain poster here frequently referring to him as the best 7 in the world!

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

None of the 'Leinster lads' have said Sen O'Brien had a good tournament from what I've seen? They're mostly saying the only reason he's still there are the injuries to Murphy and VDF

 

[RedruthRFC]

6) Stander, POM, Haskell (for the personality would rather take Watson but Personalities can really help a tour)

What about his personality makes his a good tourist? At the 2011 World Cup, he appeared to spend his time separate from the main squad with his clique, mocked other squad members and of course was part of the Aussie kiss incident. More recently he was at the centre of the "Bullingdon Boat" scandal. Personality wise, it was mentioned not that long ago that he didn't used to speak to Billy Vunipola when he joined the squad.

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None of the 'Leinster lads' have said Sen O'Brien had a good tournament from what I've seen? They're mostly saying the only reason he's still there are the injuries to Murphy and VDF

Who said they had? I recall reading it so many times that I assumed everyone would get the reference, apparently not. It was The Jones Boy after the AIs.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Bullingdon boat scandal?

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

What about his personality makes his a good tourist? At the 2011 World Cup, he appeared to spend his time separate from the main squad with his clique, mocked other squad members and of course was part of the Aussie kiss incident. More recently he was at the centre of the "Bullingdon Boat" scandal. Personality wise, it was mentioned not that long ago that he didn't used to speak to Billy Vunipola when he joined the squad.

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Who said they had? I recall reading it so many times that I assumed everyone would get the reference, apparently not. It was The Jones Boy after the AIs.

Sorry pal, don't read the Jones Boy, I don't go in for tabloid style journalism .
but I'm also not sure why Muffin thought he was going to get slated.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Not sure the 6N really inked in too many more names into the starting XV, Warbs perhaps is the main one. Possibly more places up for grabs through good form on tour than ever before.

We'll have a good competitive squad, but there's not too much real game changing stardust to draw on though.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Bullingdon boat scandal?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...court-sexually-degrading-boat-trip-party.html

The word "scandal" was OTT to be fair, but it's another incident of the ilk that seem to have followed him around since his school days.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Gonna have to do a CBA on hiring a DJ or having hask tour

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Anyone think Tim Visser has a chance? He's been impressive this tournament

 

[General Melchett]

Anyone think Tim Visser has a chance? He's been impressive this tournament

He's done well but I would have Seymour ahead of him. The Tim Swinson try in Paris was all down to Seymour's brilliance. Visser is more of a unit (perhaps in the George North style) but Seymour is better in the air, a better finisher, kicker and already has a great understanding with Hogg.

An away tie against Saracens in the ECC will be a great test for the Scottish players

 

[dullonien]

After the six nations I would like to see a squad of
1) Vunipola, McGrath, Marler,
2) Best, George, Owens,
3) Furlong, Cole, who the **** knows Fagerson
4) Itoje, AWJ,
5) Launchbury, Lawes/Henderson/Gray
6) Stander, POM, Haskell (for the personality would rather take Watson but Personalities can really help a tour)
7) Warburton, Tips
8) Vunipola, TF, Heaslip (just to keep Alpha happy)
9) Murray, Webb, Youngs,
10) Sexton, Faz,
11) Seymour, Nowell
12) Henshaw, Williams
13) JJ, Daly, Ringrose
14) Watson, North,
15) Hogg, Williams,

14/15 English
10/11 Irish
9 Welsh
3/4 Scottish

Not far from what I'd have atm. A few comments:

1) Rob Evans is in the mix imo. Struggled against Slimani, but just about everyone did! Otherwise more than held his own in the scrum and showed up well in the loose. Good fitness levels shown v France too.
2) I wonder if there is space for a bolter here? Despite deserving the spot, part of me worries that Ken Owens isn't quite physical enough to assert himself against NZ (he struggled a little physically v France too).
3) Personally I'd pick Sinkler as 3rd choice, and believe he'd make a perfect bench option in the tests.
6) Moriarty in the running? Good option to cover 8 as well.
8) Personally I'd ditch Heaslip. Stander covers 8 more than adequately.
12) Don't think Williams deserves a spot based on the 6 nations. Expect far better from him.
13) Whilst Davies wasn't great, he showed enough to make the squad imo. Probably ahead of Ringrose who's not quite there yet. His passing is still a worry, but defensively he was excellent all tournament, and he was back making metres in the wide channels.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Not far from what I'd have atm. A few comments:

1) Rob Evans is in the mix imo. Struggled against Slimani, but just about everyone did! Otherwise more than held his own in the scrum and showed up well in the loose. Good fitness levels shown v France too.
2) I wonder if there is space for a bolter here? Despite deserving the spot, part of me worries that Ken Owens isn't quite physical enough to assert himself against NZ (he struggled a little physically v France too).
3) Personally I'd pick Sinkler as 3rd choice, and believe he'd make a perfect bench option in the tests.
6) Moriarty in the running? Good option to cover 8 as well.
8) Personally I'd ditch Heaslip. Stander covers 8 more than adequately.
12) Don't think Williams deserves a spot based on the 6 nations. Expect far better from him.
13) Whilst Davies wasn't great, he showed enough to make the squad imo. Probably ahead of Ringrose who's not quite there yet. His passing is still a worry, but defensively he was excellent all tournament, and he was back making metres in the wide channels.

Totally agree about Evans, think he's pushed into the queue, though probably still behind Marler.

Re. Moriarty I feel like there are a lot of guys who can cover 8 so I'm not sure that would be enough. Still, he's been strong this tournament, though I feel the public expected him to replicate his England performance in every single game which just wasn't going to happen. On the other hand, he's incredibly 'dynamic' and as we all know, Faletau isn't at all dynamic...

Think that's a bit harsh on Williams - maybe he could seek more work but with the ball he always threatened and I saw him smash back much bigger men several times in the tackle which isn't something he's come to be known for.

If you were to take a sum of all the attributes of all the 13s we have Davies would score very poorly but I do worry about his effect on a backline trying to move the ball quickly and effectively. I don't think he's adaptable enough.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Watching Scrum V panel choosing their Lions is hilarious. Shane Williams, in particular, choosing 6 Welshmen in his starting XV. Yes, based on the Wales team that finished 5th in the 6 nations and their players knowing so well how to beat New Zealand. At least Peter Jackson gave some balance, despite being a Welshman.

 

[McTallshort]

Watching Scrum V panel choosing their Lions is hilarious. Shane Williams, in particular, choosing 6 Welshmen in his starting XV. Yes, based on the Wales team that finished 5th in the 6 nations and their players knowing so well how to beat New Zealand. At least Peter Jackson gave some balance, despite being a Welshman.

Yeah but they nearly beat England and they beat the team that beat England so that makes them great and full of Lions 'shoe-ins'

 

[big ginger 8]

Seriously what am I missing with Faletau? He's a very good player when he's at his best but even then there's not too much between himself and Heaslip at his best and who's the better player is pretty arguable imo. Currently he's coming back from injury and as been very meh and unable to force himself back into the Wales team. Arguably a similar argument could be applied to Binny, but he brings something different enough and shown more in less time that lessens it's applicability. Faletau is a pretty similar style player to Heaslip but hasn't shown as much. Heaslip's tournament was largely a success apart from the game against Wales funnily enough. His standard of play has been very good all season including two excellent games against NZ.

I know how this forum works and someone will probably think I'm ripping into Faletau, I'm really not, just on the facts available I don't understand how many people are dismissing Heaslip out of hand for Faletau.

 

[ncurd]

Yeah but they nearly beat England and they beat the team that beat England so that makes them great and full of Lions 'shoe-ins'

As our more illustrious welsh member would put it.

+1

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Huw jones now at 0% chance of making your.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Yeah but they nearly beat England and they beat the team that beat England so that makes them great and full of Lions 'shoe-ins'

Haha, yes very well made. I know Scrum V is aimed at a Welsh audience, but seriously are the ex Welsh players like Shane Williams that deluded. Yes, those 6 have case for making the squad, but based on their 6Nations form in the last two and Autumn series, plus how they faired in the RWC making the starting XV. At least Jackson gave some reasoning to his selections i.e. Daly over JJ for his kicking game; Murray over Webb etc. Who then made a good point again how bad the Welsh players skill set are.

Hook going for Liam Williams over Hogg because he is safer defensively, when Sean Holley showed in his analysis Williams failure to sweep behind the Welsh defence led to the French try really took the biscuit. Yes, let's choose a full back because he is safer v NZ because that'll beat the ABs.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Haha, yes very well made. I know Scrum V is aimed at a Welsh audience, but seriously are the ex Welsh players like Shane Williams that deluded. Yes, those 6 have case for making the squad, but based on their 6Nations form in the last two and Autumn series, plus how they faired in the RWC making the starting XV. At least Jackson gave some reasoning to his selections i.e. Daly over JJ for his kicking game; Murray over Webb etc. Who then made a good point again how bad the Welsh players skill set are.

Hook going for Liam Williams over Hogg because he is safer defensively, when Sean Holley showed in his analysis Williams failure to sweep behind the Welsh defence led to the French try really took the biscuit. Yes, let's choose a full back because he is safer v NZ because that'll beat the ABs.

To be fair I'm pretty sure the producers have a few words in the ear before the show to make sure they're being positive enough from a Wales perspective. I don't know that they would actually stand by those selections.

 

[McTallshort]

To be fair I'm pretty sure the producers have a few words in the ear before the show to make sure they're being positive enough from a Wales perspective. I don't know that they would actually stand by those selections.

Dont be so sure. The lads on the scrum 5 sofa will mostly still be involved with welsh rugby at some level and will have belief in those players even if that belief is not very objective. It reminds me of Dayglo when he finally retired from rugby. Everytime a microphone was on offer he would make a big deal about any Wasp players