(Very) early thoughts on the 2017 Lions

[Ragey Erasmus]

what if halfpenny has an off day?
There aren't many sides that have two kickers in their XV.

Halfpenny will likely go, and likely start, cause he's one of Gatland's boys, but I wouldn't be rushing to start him in case our flyhalf has an off day.

Halfpenny also missed 2 vital kicks that could have won the game for Toulon, he seems to be missing quite a bit more recently.

 

[Super 2s]

To pick Halfpenny purely on goal kicking says a lot about some people's views about how we can beat the All Blacks. Players like Liam Williams and Zebo have had the most successful running at them (as Hogg would), yet some people would rather play Halfpenny? Farrell is a certain started either at 10 or centre and will be the front line goal kicker on tour. Others such as Sexton, Biggar can back up as opposed to picking Halfpenny when there are much better in form options at 15 and wing

 

[Zootalaws]

Love to know where you're getting those numbers from. According to http://www.goalkickers.co.za/, since 2012 (they don't seem to go back further than then, and Halfpenny wasn't Wales' kicker prior to then anyway, only taking the difficult long-range shots at goal), halfpenny leads the kicking stats at international level with a 84.5% success rate. Barrett and Cruden don't appear in the top 10. Cruden has a percentage of around 73.4%, whilst Barrett has a rate of 69.5%.

Equally, statbunker : http://rugby.statbunker.com/players...23785&comps_type=1111111&dates=-1&comps_id=-1
Have his international stats at 86.2% including his time as a long distance pot-shot kicker.

Espn statsguru.

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As for Sexton/fly-halves and injuries - I don't think he injures himself making the tackles (or that guys like Wilkinson or Carter did) but those collisions are all wear and tear. Sexton's routinely getting involved in some really big ones where he's the smallest guy there (and he's pretty big for a fly-half). Will be interesting to see where Farrell's career goes. Since by and large, the fly-half is the player you least want to lose, I'm increasingly okay with fly-halves not being big defenders as long the defence as a whole works. And since England concede less points when Ford's in charge than with Farrell - or Ireland do with Jackson in charge - I think it works.

Depends how deep your bench is...

 

[Which Tyler]

Espn statsguru.

That's... not how links work.
Besides, if you mean ESPNScrum; then it makes no comment whatsoever on kicking success rates.

Are you really confusing kicking success rate with match-win success rate? It's the only thing I can think of (and a stat that ESPN DOES show).
Assuming that that is the case, you are henceforth banned from ever talking about statistics again

 

[Zootalaws]

Since 2014 in big games (until end summer 2016), England's average points total in games where Farrell played 10 is 2.25 less than their opposition. When Ford played, England on average scored 7.66 points more than the opposition. We're talking a swing of nearly 10 points here. I know there's a lot of factors involved here but that's a really big coincidence if Ford wouldn't be missed that much.

Has Ford played NZ? What was the score?

Found it - Off the bench, 1 con.

So until he's played a series, it's not really fair to damn Farrell on stats. He's put 55 points on the ABs in four tests... let's see how many Ford notches up, if you lot ever deign to play us

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Yet ours have more wins over aus in the last 12 months than Wales in the last....30? 40? years?
And Farrell has more wins over NZ than Wales in.....60?

To be fair, beating Aussie isn't that much of a yardstick...

 

[Zootalaws]

That's... not how links work.
Besides, if you mean ESPNScrum; then it makes no comment whatsoever on kicking success rates.

Are you really confusing kicking success rate with match-win success rate? It's the only thing I can think of (and a stat that ESPN DOES show).
Assuming that that is the case, you are henceforth banned from ever talking about statistics again

I was better at home ec. than maths. I'll make the tea, then

 

[mattykay1989]

Just seen the Sky sports interview with Gatland interesting that he mentioned Farrell as the first player that's impressed him the most , he also talks about JJ AWJ Hogg Furlong Henshaw & finishes with Murray.
Ive seen a lot of people's team picks that haven't even got OF in the starting 15 for me he's one of the 1st on the team sheet whether it's 10 or 12

 

[valley commando]

Are you a troll on any other forums?
Your rugby knowledge is zero judging your recent diatribe.

If mine is Zero yours Well below, have you ever watched a game ?

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its not even intelligent trolling. seems like a child

Only a child or someone one wanting to appear right on trendy would use the vastly over used word troll

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Farrell would be 2nd choice 10 possibly starting 12. I'd argue he could even kick if at 12. Not much between him and Sexton as kickers.

No they are both as average as each other worse kickers than 1/2 penny who will be the Lions 15 and worse than Biggar as well

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To pick Halfpenny purely on goal kicking says a lot about some people's views about how we can beat the All Blacks. Players like Liam Williams and Zebo have had the most successful running at them (as Hogg would), yet some people would rather play Halfpenny? Farrell is a certain started either at 10 or centre and will be the front line goal kicker on tour. Others such as Sexton, Biggar can back up as opposed to picking Halfpenny when there are much better in form options at 15 and wing

Farrell a certain starter what are you on, he will struggle to make the bench and hopefully even the plane

 

[welshglory]

Interesting comments made by Eddie Jones in his interview with Clive Woodward on how you take on the Allblacks.

CLIVE: On the subject of the Lions in New Zealand, a big positive of England players and coaches being involved will be a close-up view of this team which, let's face it, you will have to beat at some stage if you are going to win the World Cup. How do you beat New Zealand?

EDDIE: The great thing about the Kiwis is their simplicity. For the past 30 years they've played a very fast, passing game and they want ball generally in unstructured situations, they try and create unstructured situations. The only way you beat them is to minimise that, don't give them any loose kicks or loose ball. You don't necessarily have to play long phases against them and if you kick, make sure you have got a good kick-chase so they have to kick the ball back to you. You minimise the situations they enjoy most and maximise those they enjoy least.

CLIVE: Is it possible for a British and Irish team to 'out All Black' the All Blacks in terms of their fast, unstructured game?

EDDIE: When I was with Japan we played a strong Maori All Blacks in two games so I decided to conduct a little experiment. The first game I said 'right guys, we are going to take them on, play phase rugby, run everything and outphase them'. They beat us 60-15. The next week I said 'we are just going to try and beat them. We are going to play how they don't want to play, we are going to kick early in the phase, get a lot of chase going, put a lot of pressure on'. We ended up losing 19-18.

 

[Mike Rolls]

Interesting comments made by Eddie Jones in his interview with Clive Woodward on how you take on the Allblacks.

CLIVE: On the subject of the Lions in New Zealand, a big positive of England players and coaches being involved will be a close-up view of this team which, let's face it, you will have to beat at some stage if you are going to win the World Cup. How do you beat New Zealand?

EDDIE: The great thing about the Kiwis is their simplicity. For the past 30 years they've played a very fast, passing game and they want ball generally in unstructured situations, they try and create unstructured situations. The only way you beat them is to minimise that, don't give them any loose kicks or loose ball. You don't necessarily have to play long phases against them and if you kick, make sure you have got a good kick-chase so they have to kick the ball back to you. You minimise the situations they enjoy most and maximise those they enjoy least.

CLIVE: Is it possible for a British and Irish team to 'out All Black' the All Blacks in terms of their fast, unstructured game?

EDDIE: When I was with Japan we played a strong Maori All Blacks in two games so I decided to conduct a little experiment. The first game I said 'right guys, we are going to take them on, play phase rugby, run everything and outphase them'. They beat us 60-15. The next week I said 'we are just going to try and beat them. We are going to play how they don't want to play, we are going to kick early in the phase, get a lot of chase going, put a lot of pressure on'. We ended up losing 19-18.

Good Lord! I hadn't realised Japan ever got that close to a NZ side, even if not full ABs. Very illuminatoing comment
Mike

 

[welshglory]

I think it really shows that Jones knows how to tinker his gameplan. The Lions management should have pulled the cheque book out for him and the RFU.

Whilst Gatland has been able to implement a kick chase game with Wales, it is almost solely based on the territorial aspect and using the defensive line as a strength allowing the opposition to counter attack freely, probably since the Welsh chasers aren't the strongest at competing in the air and Gatland has chosen to focus on defensive discipline and fitness. Then you have his attacking phase play strategy which is based on long strings of phases going across the pitch with crashball to gain yards, not much in terms of variety with forward carriers like the Aussies or Kiwis. Tactics which have shown not to work against the allblacks as they thrive on teams playing a fast past game, especially when they know exactly where your ball carriers are coming.

 

[Maverick1987]

If mine is Zero yours Well below, have you ever watched a game ?

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Only a child or someone one wanting to appear right on trendy would use the vastly over used word troll

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No they are both as average as each other worse kickers than 1/2 penny who will be the Lions 15 and worse than Biggar as well

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Farrell a certain starter what are you on, he will struggle to make the bench and hopefully even the plane

Haha haven't been on here for a while but I'm glad to see you haven't changed much ..... just got a year older hey ?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Haha haven't been on here for a while but I'm glad to see you haven't changed much ..... just got a year older hey ?

As they say, you can't polish poo.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Whats Poland got to do wth it!?

 

[Peat]

Enough of this ********. Address the posts and not the poster and that goes for all of you.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Enough of this ********. Address the posts and not the poster and that goes for all of you.

Dear Peat's post, when a certain someone is at the centre instigating it all repeatedly, the broad brush discipline seems more like the sort of a thing a teacher would do when dealing with a bully and numerous victims.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I'm only human after all
Don't put your blame on me

 

[Peat]

If people want to discuss the rights or wrongs of the matter, start a thread in Site News/Suggestions and leave this for the topic. Thanks.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

So Gatland on BBC has pretty much confirmed it will be a 37/38 man Lions squad.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

If Hamish Watson keeps going the way he's started the 6N, he could be a real bolter. Very impressed with him.