(Very) early thoughts on the 2017 Lions

[Bada-Bing!]

If Hamish Watson keeps going the way he's started the 6N, he could be a real bolter. Very impressed with him.

Yep, add him to the list of 7s who are in contention: Warburton, Tipuric, Haskell (6/7), SOB (6/7), Hardie.

Although like Tipuric he is only around 100kgs according to his Edinburgh club page stats. http://www.edinburghrugby.org/edinburgh-rugby/player/hamish-watson. Don't know how accurate it is, seeing as there has been doubt cast on players' stats on club and country websites e.g. Itoje according to RFU is 193 metres or 6 foot 4inches tall and 110 KGs (which I doubt more like 196 or 6 foot 5 and 114kgs).

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Is Harris really still in contention?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Is Harris really still in contention?

By Harris, do you mean John Hardie?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

By Harris, do you mean John Hardie?

Sorry, autocorrect

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Sorry, autocorrect

Thought so.

He did come on yesterday, but got a head knock and went off for HIA; don't think he returned. I think he is, if nothing else like Sean Maitland he knows the NZ conditions well, and it might sway selection if he comes back into form before end of 6 Nations. Still Hamish Watson is playing well to keep him out of the Scotland team, so he may have his work cut out.

 

[TW27BA]

Josh Strauss had an all action game at 8 yesterday. Another back rower who impressed me.

 

[Five Meters Out]

Congratulations in advance to the English team for breaking the All Blacks winning streak record, which they should do so in the next two games. I can see Scotland playing well until the last five minutes when they will give up a late penalty and lose by 2 points. Ireland will play well until half time, but then become distracted by high shots and injuries, before losing by 1 point.
In light of this record I ask, why not select the English team as the "Lions"? Won't any other players just complicate matters?

 

[MarkyH]

Not based all on 6N. Class is permanent etc. Based on balance, game time, international form over the last 6 months etc.

1. Mako
2. Owens
3. Furlong
4. Gray, J
5. Itoje
6. CJ
7. Tips
8. Billy

9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Henshaw
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Hogg

Cole, George, Mcgrath, AWJ, Warburton, Webb, Farrell, Williams

5 Eng + 3
5 Ire + 1
3 Wales + 3
2 Scots

Think the hardest issue is that in very few positions do we have a stand out player, someone who is world class and would be the first name on the team sheet.

Could pick another 15 to play against this one, and it would be almost if not equally as good. Was tempted to pick 15 Welsh players, with less than a dozen caps each as a bolters team. But I'll leave that to certain other posters...

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

The captaincy is getting interesting. Wonder if there might even be separate tour and test skippers.

Of the national skippers both Hartley and Best are behind George and maybe Owens in pure playing terms, Hartley might not even finish the 6N as Eng skipper. Laidlaw's 3rd choice at best while there are any number of locks who might keep AWJ out. My money would still be on AWJ, but he's not a dominant figure in the way that Johnno or POC were in the past.

Picking today on the same basis as MarkyH: McGrath, George, Furlong, Kruis, J Gray, Stander, O'Brien, Billy, Murray, Farrell, North, Henshaw, JJ, Watson, Hogg. Bench: Mako, Owens, Cole, Warbs, Itoje, Webb, Russell, Daly.

Eng: 6+4
Ire: 6
Sco: 2+1
Wal: 1+3

 

[munstermuffin]

Wonder could Murray be captain. He's argubally the only player probably nailed on to start. Not saying he is captain material just basing it on if being most guaranteed to start

 

[MarkyH]

Wonder could Murray be captain. He's argubally the only player probably nailed on to start. Not saying he is captain material just basing it on if being most guaranteed to start

That's a great point. Didn't even thing Murray could be captain. I'd probably go with that, as its probably a position where there is a player that stands out on his own in his position.

Will Gatland name a couple of Vice Captains?

Has to be the hardest year to pick a Lions squad, never mind a starting 15.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

The captaincy is getting interesting. Wonder if there might even be separate tour and test skippers.

Of the national skippers both Hartley and Best are behind George and maybe Owens in pure playing terms, Hartley might not even finish the 6N as Eng skipper. Laidlaw's 3rd choice at best while there are any number of locks who might keep AWJ out. My money would still be on AWJ, but he's not a dominant figure in the way that Johnno or POC were in the past.

Picking today on the same basis as MarkyH: McGrath, George, Furlong, Kruis, J Gray, Stander, O'Brien, Billy, Murray, Farrell, North, Henshaw, JJ, Watson, Hogg. Bench: Mako, Owens, Cole, Warbs, Itoje, Webb, Russell, Daly.

Eng: 6+4
Ire: 6
Sco: 2+1
Wal: 1+3

I remember Gatland saying on Sky in November before one of the England tests that he had no problem with selecting a tour captain and that the tour captain would not be guaranteed his place in the test side. So, yes it would seem there could be a tour captain, but when Gatland picks the captain from test side who are playing on the day. Do I see this in reality? No, I would be surprised if the Tour captain is not picked as the test captain if he is fit.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

If Sexton is injured and can't tour I think I'd make Farrell captain, he got on well with the Irish on the last tour by all accounts so he just needs to command the respect of the Welsh and Scottish tag alongs. No one screams captain in the best starting XV though.

Jackson v Russell is what interests me, Russell hasn't been as good as PJ in the first two games and played a big role in losing to France, he's off the plane for me right now.

 

[munstermuffin]

If Sexton is injured and can't tour I think I'd make Farrell captain, he got on well with the Irish on the last tour by all accounts so he just needs to command the respect of the Welsh and Scottish tag alongs. No one screams captain in the best starting XV though.

Jackson v Russell is what interests me, Russell hasn't been as good as PJ in the first two games and played a big role in losing to France, he's off the plane for me right now.

Can see that too as I 100% see Farrell as 10 if Sexton doesn't play. Farrell has been over to Zebo a few times for night out in Cork. I've no worries about chemistry as 1 thing Gatland perfected is getting the whole tour to mix. I've heard from many pros say SA 2009 was the best tour ever. In Aus 2013 it was also very well spoken of. The impression I got is when you are on it's training like dogs very high intensity but when your off you have the craic.

 

[corny]

Hogg seems to be in everyones team but is no one worried by his propensity to miss first up tackles? Does it every game. Given the NZ'ers are going to break the line more than any other international team i think i'd want a fullback who can make his tackles. Williams is the only candidate imo. Maybe Daly but he'd have to get a game there first.

Also, form shouldn't be judged week to week. Best is by no means a nailed on starter but he shouldn't be discarded because he had the ****s for a weekend.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

If Sexton is injured and can't tour I think I'd make Farrell captain, he got on well with the Irish on the last tour by all accounts so he just needs to command the respect of the Welsh and Scottish tag alongs. No one screams captain in the best starting XV though.

Its not impossible that Faz might take over from Hartley during the tournament. If he does and the rest of the championship goes well he could be in with a shout. Suspect that he will have the respect, even if grudging, of the other players. Always worry that a 10, which is where I'd play him, and goal kicker already has quite a bit on their plate though.

Interesting that Gatland had said that, Blindside. Generally I prefer a captain the pack, but there are few obvious candidates which is why I think AWJ will get the nod even if hes not one of the two best locks.

 

[munstermuffin]

Hogg seems to be in everyones team but is no one worried by his propensity to miss first up tackles? Does it every game. Given the NZ'ers are going to break the line more than any other international team i think i'd want a fullback who can make his tackles. Williams is the only candidate imo. Maybe Daly but he'd have to get a game there first.

Also, form shouldn't be judged week to week. Best is by no means a nailed on starter but he shouldn't be discarded because he had the ****s for a weekend.

Hogg is guaranteed to tour but not start. Williams and Halfpenny will be possibility too. On Best I think it's his lineout stats are hurting him BUT it's not all on him. Hooker is highly competitive.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

AWJ being backed for the captaincy by Johnno, BOD and Hastings. What do they know?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38989742

And on the same page, Gatland praising Warbs....surely not?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38993073

 

[McTallshort]

I really woudnt be bothered if AWJ was captain but I would love to see J Gray and Itojie in the same team at 2nd row.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I really woudnt be bothered if AWJ was captain but I would love to see J Gray and Itojie in the same team at 2nd row.

Both are in better form than AWJ. He shouldn't get in the team purely off of reputation.