(Very) early thoughts on the 2017 Lions

[munstermuffin]

If Te'eo is good enough for the Lions he'll be capped by England before then anyway.
Especially if Manu doesn't get over his injury issues.

No I don't mean him individually but just in general a case like that?

 

[Peat]

The media for a start. They'd have a field day. They do now. Do you really believe they'd say nothing if the player mentioned went on a Lions tour and then went off to play for Australia? By repercussions, I don't mean from governing bodies, but I'm pretty sure it would refuel the argument about qualification periods etc. It's a subject we apparently can't let go. By the way, I never mentioned Scotland originally, nor did I hurl abuse at England. I simply, from experience, stated what I thought would happen if he went on tour. I never at any time said he wasn't entitled to.

Look, Lions tours have been criticised for a number of years now, some of it justified, a lot of it not. For myself, I relish them. I don't want anything to bring them to an end. For me, this particular issue is one that won't die, won't go away. I wish it would, but it won't.

The argument about qualification periods is refuelled endlessly and so far with no actual outcome. I really don't see the Lions getting hit by it in a meaningful way if this happens to them after selection. Will they write articles about it? Probably, but I can't see them sticking at it or causing any real harm. I understand your concern, I just think it's misplaced.

The chances of it happening are also really low - it's an interesting question from MM without a firm answer, but probably very academic.

 

[munstermuffin]

The reason I was asked you a mate Peat is because technically a Lions test game is an official capped game. I agree it's extremely unlikely.

 

[YoungScud]

Who are you talking too? When did I say I was joking? Get your facts straight before gobbing off.

My apologies. I did of course mean ragerancher.

 

[g6mcg]

The reason I was asked you a mate Peat is because technically a Lions test game is an official capped game. I agree it's extremely unlikely.

Are Pacific islanders games capped? Apparently playing for them doesn't(/didn't) tie players to one of the constituent nations.

 

[munstermuffin]

Are Pacific islanders games capped? Apparently playing for them doesn't(/didn't) tie players to one of the constituent nations.

Never actually thought of them in the scenario. I presume it'd be a similar rule.

 

[McTallshort]

Are Pacific islanders games capped? Apparently playing for them doesn't(/didn't) tie players to one of the constituent nations.

Well its not going to because you have several nations in one group so I suppose in the case of an uncapped South African playing for the Lions then he could by rights go and play for another international team ofter the tour. Seems very unlikely though.

 

[j'nuh]

6. Faletau 8. Vunipola on the cards?

The two best players in this Six Nations so far.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

6. Faletau 8. Vunipola on the cards?

The two best players in this Six Nations so far.

I really wouldn't have thought so. Although they've both been great, with so many great flankers available I don't see the advantage of playing them both. However, I would've thought that 1 to start with the other on the bench is very much on the table (I'd go Faletau to start with Binny as an impact sub).

If it was me selecting it I'd go for:

6. O'Brien
7. Warburton
8. Faleatu

20. Billy Vunipola

 

[Ospreylian]

My 23 based on current form this six nations (and obviously excluding players who are currently injured):

1. Vunipola
2. Best
3. Lee
4. Itoje
5. AWJ
6. Stander
7. Tipuric
8. Vunipola/Faletau

9. Davies
10. Biggar
11. Watson/North
12. Henshaw
13. Joseph
14. Seymour
15. Hogg

Bench: Evans, Ford/Baldwin, Cole/Nel, Charteris, Warburton, Laidlaw, Russell, Liam Williams

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

My 23 based on current form this six nations (and obviously excluding players who are currently injured):

1. Vunipola
2. Best
3. Lee
4. Itoje
5. AWJ
6. Stander
7. Tipuric
8. Vunipola/Faletau

9. Davies
10. Biggar
11. Watson/North
12. Henshaw
13. Joseph
14. Seymour
15. Hogg

Bench: Evans, Ford/Baldwin, Cole/Nel, Charteris, Warburton, Laidlaw, Russell, Liam Williams

Your Welshness is very much shining through there: Evans, Charteris and maybe L. Williams probably don't even deserve to be in the full squad and Sexton and Faz are both ahead of Biggar on current form. I'd also say that Nel deserves to start over Lee, but that's a close call. And Tipuric over Warbs? Tips has been relatively poor recently in my eyes. Would also say that Watson and Nowell should both be over Seymour in the 14 shirt, he can be prone to inconsistency, but again, a close call. Laidlaw and Russell should also not be near that team, both have been relatively poor.

 

[ncurd]

Is Hogg really the No. 1 full back currently? I'd rate Brown higher especially with recent years form.

I know I know there's always token Scot but I'm seriously questioning whether they'll be represented in the starting 15 this time around.

 

[Peat]

6. Faletau 8. Vunipola on the cards?

The two best players in this Six Nations so far.

I really wouldn't have thought so. Although they've both been great, with so many great flankers available I don't see the advantage of playing them both. However, I would've thought that 1 to start with the other on the bench is very much on the table (I'd go Faletau to start with Binny as an impact sub).

If it was me selecting it I'd go for:

6. O'Brien
7. Warburton
8. Faleatu

20. Billy Vunipola

I was thinking the same thing as J'nuh after reading Ospreylian's team and I have to say I'd question Toby's assertion that we have a group of great flankers available. England and Scotland both have no one I'd like to pick*; Wales only has 7s I'd like to pick, and only as 7s. That leaves Ireland. You could move SOB from 7 to 6, but he seems increasingly injury prone and unable to hit his peak. You could pick O'Mahony and... actually, not a lot to say to that one. Stander and Ruddock could emerge as options given more game time, as could Henderson if allowed to play in the back row... but the options are pretty slim. And I think Faletau is totally mobile enough, hard working enough, and skilled enough at the breakdown to play flanker. It's an option I like, I've got to say.

*Would consider top form Croft and an Itoje that played more rugby in the back row.


Also, agree that Tipuric ahead of Warburton is odd, that Laidlaw and Russell don't really deserve places, but would suggest that Liam Williams might actually be the best full-back in the home nations. And I hate Liam Williams.

 

[McTallshort]

Is Hogg really the No. 1 full back currently? I'd rate Brown higher especially with recent years form.

I know I know there's always token Scot but I'm seriously questioning whether they'll be represented in the starting 15 this time around.

No he's just the token jock we all have to put in to stop certain posters getting offended.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Purely academic these because... Well they all are and I hate the Lions but my current side would be:

1. McGrath
2. Hartley (ew)
3. Cole
4. Kruis
5. AWJ (c)
6. Stander (need a carrier there, Robshaw has probably been better)
7. Warburton
8. Vunipola
9. Davies
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Roberts
13. Henshaw
14. Nowell
15. Williams

Best, Vunipola, Lee, Itoje, Faletau, Murray, Farrell, Fitzgerald (No one not injured really fills that 23 role)

What I expect (would pick attempting to imitate Gats) next year:

1. McGrath
2. Best
3. Lee
4. Henderson
5. AWJ
6. POM (c)
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Murray
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Tuilagi
13. Henshaw
14. Williams
15. Halfpenny

Ford, Vunipola, Cole, Itoje, SOB, Davies, Farrell, Watson

Neither will beat the All Blacks once.

Of course I'd prefer far less Irish players.

 

[g6mcg]

I know I know there's always token Scot but I'm seriously questioning whether they'll be represented in the starting 15 this time around.

Don't think Scots have started competitive lions tests for quite a while!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Is Hogg really the No. 1 full back currently? I'd rate Brown higher especially with recent years form.

I know I know there's always token Scot but I'm seriously questioning whether they'll be represented in the starting 15 this time around.

Based on this year I would have Hogg and Williams ahead of Brown.

Would have Seymour at least in squad, Gray and Nel would prob push places aswell IMO.

 

[Maverick1987]

Is Hogg really the No. 1 full back currently? I'd rate Brown higher especially with recent years form.

I know I know there's always token Scot but I'm seriously questioning whether they'll be represented in the starting 15 this time around.

Actually I'd have quite a few Scots in the lions squad at the moment . Nel, Jonny Gray, Hardie, Hogg, Seymour and I'd pick Taylor (I know that will probably split opinion but I think he's a quality operator and does everything well)

 

[Peat]

I'd considered mentioning Duncan Taylor actually. At the moment there's an argument for him, although it could shrivel up like a man teleported from a brothel to a burns ward if McCloskey and Tuilagi fulfil their potential as international 12s.

The Scottish 12 I'm really interested in is Dunbar, but since he can't keep fit...

 

[Ospreylian]

Your Welshness is very much shining through there: Evans, Charteris and maybe L. Williams probably don't even deserve to be in the full squad and Sexton and Faz are both ahead of Biggar on current form. I'd also say that Nel deserves to start over Lee, but that's a close call. And Tipuric over Warbs? Tips has been relatively poor recently in my eyes. Would also say that Watson and Nowell should both be over Seymour in the 14 shirt, he can be prone to inconsistency, but again, a close call. Laidlaw and Russell should also not be near that team, both have been relatively poor.

You say my "Welshness" is shining through, but only 5 of my starting XV at the moment would be Welsh; the likes of Faletau and North would be very much up for debate because of competition, and at the moment I would be verging on Vunipola over Faletau and Watson over North, which would make it 5 Englishmen too by the way, so perhaps reconsider your accusations of bias, eh?

I'll defend Rob Evans on the bench as he has been a real find for Wales and has given our scrum much-needed stability. He has been one of Wales' most underrated players this tournament. Tipuric over Warbs any day of the week these days, as much as I love Warbs he just hasn't been on top form. Wales miss Charteris immensely when he is unavailable, and this was very much the case against France, where France dominated the mauls. Had Charteris been there that really wouldn't have been the case and perhaps the opposite. He also is one of the underrated players.

I can see a case for Nel over Lee at the moment. Seymour easily deserves one of the starting wing spots based on this tournament, he has been one of Scotland's best players and probably the most intelligent winger in the tournament. I'd say Nowell is far more inconsistent than Seymour tbh, I still don't get what Nowell provides other than speed. I saw a good bit of analysis of Russell on Scrum V and having seen him so far he seems to have a great vision for what's in front of him. I haven't been impressed with Sexton for a good long while *cue a swarm of Irish fans ready to tear me apart*