(Very) early thoughts on the 2017 Lions

[ncurd]

Am I the only one who thinks George Ford is the right choice for fly half? We seem to be thinking dependable rather than someone who may just have the x factor to beat the ABs. I'm struggling to think of a time where being excellent defensively has beaten them. It usually comes when attacking play is a step above what they are use to playing.

 

[McTallshort]

Am I the only one who thinks George Ford is the right choice for fly half? We seem to be thinking dependable rather than someone who may just have the x factor to beat the ABs. I'm struggling to think of a time where being excellent defensively has beaten them. It usually comes when attacking play is a step above what they are use to playing.

If he has a good season at Bath then its going to be hard leaving him out simply because he can do things in attack other fly halves only dream about

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Am I the only one who thinks George Ford is the right choice for fly half? We seem to be thinking dependable rather than someone who may just have the x factor to beat the ABs. I'm struggling to think of a time where being excellent defensively has beaten them. It usually comes when attacking play is a step above what they are use to playing.

He's the best fly half hands down, he has to go and unless someone pulls something out the bag in the 6 nations he has to start.

10. Ford
11. north
12. Henshaw
13. Tuilagi (question marks here)
14. Watson
15. Really open imo

 

[Mumbles119]

Am I the only one who thinks George Ford is the right choice for fly half? We seem to be thinking dependable rather than someone who may just have the x factor to beat the ABs. I'm struggling to think of a time where being excellent defensively has beaten them. It usually comes when attacking play is a step above what they are use to playing.

He's the best fly half hands down, he has to go and unless someone pulls something out the bag in the 6 nations he has to start.

10. Ford
11. north
12. Henshaw
13. Tuilagi (question marks here)
14. Watson
15. Really open imo

Working with an attacking plan, yes, I would agree Ford would be the best choice. But if Ford nails his kicking from tee, as he has done albeit in just one game this season so far: then I don't think you can look further than Liam Williams for 15.

10. Ford
11. North
12. Henshaw
13. Taylor
14. Watson
15. L.Williams

 

[Maverick1987]

Working with an attacking plan, yes, I would agree Ford would be the best choice. But if Ford nails his kicking from tee, as he has done albeit in just one game this season so far: then I don't think you can look further than Liam Williams for 15.

10. Ford
11. North
12. Henshaw
13. Taylor
14. Watson
15. L.Williams

If Gats is desperate to play Ford then he should simply find a spot for Halfpenny in the back 3

 

[Saint4805]

If Gats is desperate to play Ford then he should simply find a spot for Halfpenny in the back 3

Do you really think Gats is desperate to play Ford?

 

[Which Tyler]

But if Ford nails his kicking from tee, as he has done albeit in just one game this season so far: then I don't think you can look further than Liam Williams for 15.

Yes but that "just 1 game" is as many as he hasn't nailed in the last 18 months

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I don't see Gatland picking Ford TBH.

 

[Saint4805]

Ford needs to deliver consistent top level performances for England before he's in contention IMO.

 

[Which Tyler]

I don't see Gatland will probably need convincing to even have Ford on the back-up list; he's basically the antithesis of what Gatland wants from a FH. It'll be Biggar, Sexton, Farrell, with Priestland as first reserve. Gats would probably go with Russell, Jackson, Myler etc before looking at Ford.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

If you want someone who can't tackle, can't goal kick, is affected by pressure but can unlock defences like no other then surely you just go for Cipriani.
Him and Gats are #onceawaspalwaysawasp as well

 

[ncurd]

Yup that'll be the George Ford who's lost what two games starting for England? Both out world cup losses were when he was dropped for Farrell so he didn't start, there the Ireland Six Nations loss which any fly-half would of stuggled behind the pack that day. There's also the France warm-up game.
His record internationally is actually a lot better than people give him credit for. I mean last season was admittedly and off season for him and he still ended up a starting 10 GS winner and white-washed the Ozzies abroad.

I think people hit the nail on the head to why I asked question, Gatland won't pick him, he'll probably struggle to make the plane. That worries me ALOT for the Lions tour as other have said hes only fly-half I can see (certainly if he gets back on form) making a real difference to the side match day. Everyone else doesn't inspire me to orestrates a game plan that the potential to score enough to beat the ABs.

There a real sattement of intent here does Gatland just want to not loose badly or does he want to go out there are intend to win? Picking Ford is all about attacking intent which is the only way I see us winning.

 

[Saint4805]

Attributing England's win record to Ford is just pure fantasy. He was only the pitch because Farrell was deputising at 12. England's success was down to the other outstanding performers and the coaching team.

 

[Which Tyler]

If you want someone who can't tackle, can't goal kick, is affected by pressure but can unlock defences like no other then surely you just go for Cipriani.
Him and Gats are #onceawaspalwaysawasp as well

Well, yes - but what's that got to do with Ford?

 

[MojoPin]

For me it's got to be Ford or Farrell for fly half at the moment, no one else comes close to those two. Sexton is a little bit of a risk as he's been blowing hot and cold lately, while Biggar is dependable but doesn't suit the type of game that will be needed to beat NZ. Heck, I'm not sure he'll even be Wales' top choice 10 by the end of the 6N, if some of his rivals get a chance to start. But if you go with Ford you've got to have a kicker elsewhere, which means Farrell at 12 or Halfpenny at 15.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Sexton is definitely in the driving seat for the 10 position considering, avoiding something drastic, he's already got his seat on the plane. He was the driving force for the last series win and was a leader within the squad, his record against the All Blacks isn't all that bad either coming within two points twice even if he missed what would have been the winning kick. Sexton at 85% of his ability is better than his competitors for this tour.

Saying that I really hope he doesn't go, the stress on his body from the last tour has really hampered his career since. I'd love to see him and a few more Irish players decline invitations so they can make it to the next World Cup.

 

[ncurd]

I didn't attribute England's success to Ford but you don't have that kind of success with a fly-half who can't cut it at international level.

Infact one of England's biggest wins can be attributed to George Ford, 1st test vs Australia we were all at sea with Burrell at 12 and Farrell at 10. Once Ford was brought on, only 29 minuites into the game suddenly England found thier footing and pretty much dominated the next 211 minuites.

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But if you go with Ford you've got to have a kicker elsewhere, which means Farrell at 12 or Halfpenny at 15.

Fallacy you don't need this Ford's kicking record is fine. People like to highlight when he a bad kicking day but all kicker have them and his are just as often as anyone elses.

 

[Shaggy]

Is Gatland capable of a totally different style?

I'm pretty sure that if you have the right cattle, you can adopt a different style ... If you use a lot of variation in your game, and identify individual weaknesses in the team you are playing against, and have the personnel capable of exploiting those weaknesses, your in with a reasonable shot, aren't you

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

If he has a good season at Bath then its going to be hard leaving him out simply because he can do
things in attack other fly halves only dream about

This is true.

But, without stats to prove it, I think he gets caught behind the gain line when running out of defence and gets charged down more than most. Those kind of mistakes will be jumped on by the ABs more than any other side. His magic might win one game, it won't win two and it may actively cost matches. He's high risk and I doubt that's the way to beat the ABs in a series.

Time has marched on, but the only NH team to beat the ABs regularly was SCW's vintage. An updated model of that side -balanced, bruising pack, a kicker who took pretty much every chance and backs who carried threat but didn't attack recklessly feels like our best chance.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

If Ford plays well in the Autumn and we finish the year undefeated coupled with another 6N win, it will be VERY hard to ignore him. As has been pointed out, our World cup losses were with Farrell at the helm. The Ireland game is the only game for England were he really looked lost but then the England pack and 9 were absolutely **** and can't the guy at a very young age have an off game when everyone else in his team is being dominated?

Also Sexton is made of glass, a stiff breeze and he could be injured.