(Very) early thoughts on the 2017 Lions

[TRF_Olyy]

Agree on 1/2p, he's not so brilliant that he walks back in. He's not even the best fullback in Wales right now. On the kicking though, I'd be very surprised (/worried) if either Biggar or Farrell were in the test XV. They're both Fatland type of players though, so maybe conceivable - but not advisable IMO.

Im not mad on Gatland, but as others say, who else is there?

Ay? Biggar is the best 10 in Europe.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Ay? Biggar is the best 10 in Europe.

In what sense?

 

[Peat]

In what sense?

Maybe Biggar has secretly joined the band Europe? He'd be the best 10 among them its true.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Halfpenny is surplus to requirements in my opinion, each of the four nations have better footballers at 15 and his place kicking isn't a huge factor when Farrell and Sexton will be fighting it out for the 10 jersey.

The selection of Gatland is purely one of having no other options. His SH record is tragic and to keep this brand from becoming obselete, not that I wouldn't love the Lions to fade and die, you have to win games and not just have the Lions "ethos". The Lions ethos throughout history is becoming chummy with players from three other nations and, apart from a few exceptions, getting dicked on worse than the best team out of the four nations would have on their own. There's no obvious other option but I'm not willing to accept Mr. Sporadically Strong in Europe is the best candidate they have.

 

[Peat]

Better footballers maybe, but not better full-backs. Brown and Kearney are close to being busted flushes these days. Hogg makes too many mistakes for my liking, although he is a candidate. Liam Williams would probably be my first choice candidate forgetting goal kicking, but Halfpenny is a very secure full-back and the best goal kicker in Europe. We don't necessarily need his kicking but if there's a tight race for full-back anyway, you might as well have the kicking.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

In what sense?

He can do everything to a high standard. He may not be as good at specific things as alternatives, but at doing everything I don't think anyone's as good - Sexton comes close but you might as well flip a coin as to whether he's gonna be a great or ****, in a match.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Can see the Team being
1) Vunipola
2) Hartley
3) Cole
4) AWJ (C)
5) Itoje
6) Lydiate
7) Warburton
8) Faletau
9) Webb
10) Bigger
11) North
12) Roberts
13) Davies
14) Williams
15) Hogg

16) Best
17) Jenkins
18) Nel
19) Henderson
20) Vunipola
21) Davies
22) Farrell
23) Halfpenny

 

[Maverick1987]

I am not denying their relevance.

I am saying that in the greater scheme of things, they are not a clinching argument against the number of Welsh players there.

I'm not saying they were miles ahead of us either. They were ahead though - I think the objective record of trophies won is testament to that.

Did Gatland show some bias to them? I think so. Did he pick anyone utterly unworthy of a Lions place from Wales? No. For the most part, we are talking about fairly minor biases on tight calls. Not a huge issue.

Also - are there any coaches out there that don't mostly stick with what they know?



Heaslip over Faletau? Croft starting the first test over Lydiate? Tom Youngs ahead of Hibbard? Ben Youngs getting the second test?

Sorry I meant in the initial squad selection . Not so much the selections for he test

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Hopefully he does go with Rennie or Schmidt over Howley as attack coach.

Gustard must be favourite for defence coach aswell.

 

[Thingimubob]

Hopefully he does go with Rennie or Schmidt over Howley as attack coach.

Gustard must be favourite for defence coach aswell.

Howley already confirmed as replacement Wales coach, so hoping that means he won't be called up. That said, think the same happened last time and he still bloody went

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Howley already confirmed as replacement Wales coach, so hoping that means he won't be called up. That said, think the same happened last time and he still bloody went

yeh he was lions attack coach last time round aswell.

 

[Thingimubob]

yeh he was lions attack coach last time round aswell.

Bugger.

 

[Every Time Ref]

He can do everything to a high standard. He may not be as good at specific things as alternatives, but at doing everything I don't think anyone's as good - Sexton comes close but you might as well flip a coin as to whether he's gonna be a great or ****, in a match.

He's a decent player but a limited one IMO. Solid at most things but not "high standard", his playmaking is definitely well short of a high standard - I'd say it would be unacceptably poor for another team.

 

[Maverick1987]

He can do everything to a high standard. He may not be as good at specific things as alternatives, but at doing everything I don't think anyone's as good - Sexton comes close but you might as well flip a coin as to whether he's gonna be a great or ****, in a match.

My trouble with Biggar is when the team is struggling he can't get going . I've never seen him drag the team out the crap like Farrell can and I don't mean with flashes of brilliance I mean by just doing the basics right, in that respect Faz has surpassed everyone else this year imo

Playing fly halves at 10 and 12 is probably out the question now Gats is coach otherwise I may be tempted by Biggar at 10 and Faz at 12 but that would probably mean leaving Henshaw out who has been outstanding

 

[Shaggy]

Isn't it the other way round and he has to adapt his style to suit the players that are available?

Olyy's absolutely right that his record against the SH is awful, so there seems little point in putting out Wales or Wales lite. Yes the Lions won last time out, but while Aus can be bullied at times the ABs can't. Playing Warrenball would be damage limitation not an attempt to win.

No, I don't think so; I was meaning more his man management style, rather than the playing style that best suits the team. In much the same way that his appointment has fragmented/divided opinion on here, I was wondering if the playing personnel would be likewise affected.

It sounds like he'll select a team with pace, and use it too (as per this stuff article)

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...s-will-have-pace-and-flair-to-beat-all-blacks

What is the current policy/thoughts on players playing outside of the UK and Ireland, when it comes to Lions selection? Do they have to have "exceptional circumstances" to select them, or is everyone on an equal footing?

 

[Peat]

What is the current policy/thoughts on players playing outside of the UK and Ireland, when it comes to Lions selection? Do they have to have "exceptional circumstances" to select them, or is everyone on an equal footing?

Somewhere in between. There's no rule barring them but, between the many rules preventing them from appearing in the 6N (i.e. most of what gets them picked) and between the eligibility tussles that occur due to the Top 14 tending to end later, it is definitely not equal footing.

Encouraging words in the article. Sure, talk is cheap, but encouraging nevertheless. Thanks man.

 

[Shaggy]

Somewhere in between. There's no rule barring them but, between the many rules preventing them from appearing in the 6N (i.e. most of what gets them picked) and between the eligibility tussles that occur due to the Top 14 tending to end later, it is definitely not equal footing.

Encouraging words in the article. Sure, talk is cheap, but encouraging nevertheless. Thanks man.

Thanks Peat, yes, I agree, it remains to be seen if he is true to what he implies here, but he'd be silly not to pick the best players, and full utilise their strengths.

... I don't think I'd be tipping my hand if I was Gatland either; in fact, I'd probably let everybody believe they were going to get more of the same (maybe play that style in the games preceding the tests), and then ambush the AB's with a totally different style.

 

[Which Tyler]

Is Gatland capable of a totally different style?

 

[Peat]

Is Gatland capable of a totally different style?

I haven't followed his career too closely but imagine he must have used different styles at some point in the past.

And, of course, its amazing the shift in style that can occur when a head coach brings in a new subordinate and gives him a lot of responsibility. I'm sure there are plenty of attack coaches who could deliver something other than Gatlandball for him to employ if he wishes.

That said... strictly speaking, I don't think that article is a renunciation of Gatlandball. A midfield of Tuilagi and Henshaw/Davies would be pretty fast, but also pretty direct... he mentions 5 attributes and two of them are power and size. Distribution isn't mentioned at all.

 

[McTallshort]

No, I don't think so; I was meaning more his man management style, rather than the playing style that best suits the team. In much the same way that his appointment has fragmented/divided opinion on here, I was wondering if the playing personnel would be likewise affected.

It sounds like he'll select a team with pace, and use it too (as per this stuff article)

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...s-will-have-pace-and-flair-to-beat-all-blacks

What is the current policy/thoughts on players playing outside of the UK and Ireland, when it comes to Lions selection? Do they have to have "exceptional circumstances" to select them, or is everyone on an equal footing?

They can but the Top 14 will probably not finish until the 3rd test.

As for Gatland..well who else is there?