USA Looking at New International Comp

[usausa]

From rugbymag.com

WRITTEN BY ALEX GOFF SATURDAY, 05 MAY 2012 13:56
USA Rugby CEO Nigel Melville posted on his blog comments that he thinks the USA is close to joining a new Pacific Nations Cup men's international competition starting in 2013.

Melville was in talks with Japan, Canada, Samoa, Tonga, and Fiji to revisit the format of the old Epson Cup, which ran from 1999-2001 (before that, there was the Pacific Rim, 1996-1998 which has Japan, Canada, USA and Hong Kong).

The talks have been going on for over a year and Melville said the framework has now been agreed to (at least preliminarily) to develop an intense six-team competition during the June test window.

Said Melville:

"Discussions between the Tier 2′s and Tier 1′s resulted in a limited (but very welcome) inbound Tier 1 schedule for Canada and the USA each June and games against Tier 1′s for the Islands during November in Europe. The impact being that we will host Italy (2012 buy your tickets now), Ireland (2013) and Scotland (2014) in June. Of course, that's great but we need more fixtures and friendlies don't cut it with our fans, we want meaningful games."

So the plan appears to be six teams playing 33 games, meaning all six teams play each other once, with the top four going into a semifinal-final format.

That would mean you needed to squeeze five weeks of matches, and a weekend of semis and finals, into about four weeks. To do that, you'd need to play every four days through most of June. That's enormously demanding, but it's possible.

Added Melville in his post:

"Next steps, the schedule is being double checked, the logistics folk are putting together a plan and the financial team working out the costs. We have developed a commercial program for ***le Sponsors and Broadcasters, and the final step will be approval from the IRB Council/Executive."

Source: http://www.rugbymag.com/usa-men/4439-usa-looking-at-new-international-comp.html

I like the idea of this, it gets more test matches in a competitive tournament format against teams of similar quality. It will allow these nations to not only build a team with players they have but also allow them to blood new caps to see how they fare in test rugby. My worry (and everyone else's) is that the format will be too demanding on these teams. Even New Zealand I think would be crazy to play a test match every 4 days.

I think that a 6 team round robin (5 games) is more than great and that they should just toss out the semi final and final. I understand they may want to eliminate the 'upset' win and give them a second chance to win it, and that they may want to simulate 'World Cup conditions' slightly by having a pressure situation such as knockout stages, but that's what I love about a league championship. Imagine the 6 Nations have a semi and final? I think it says something if a team can go unbeaten the whole way.

The other format brought up by others is basically the old Churchill Cup format of 2 pools of 3 and then ranking matches. It would allow teams to play all matches in time with proper rest. Whether they'd do a host nation like with the Churchill Cup, or only have a host for the final 3 ranking matches that would have to be worked out. It's ok, better than what we have now but this would be my second choice.

What do people here think, especially some of our Canadian members? Would love to hear your thoughts on this!

 

[welshglory]

It'd be cool if they could add Chile, they're technically in the Pacific rim... aren't they?

 

[usausa]

Indeed they are. It would be interesting to see them stack up against the Pacific Nations, although I doubt they would be too competitive. They had an encouraging 1 point loss to Uruguay in this years 2012 South American championship (26-27). But they got beat pretty good by an Argentina 2nd team (59-6), and so did Uruguay (40-5). Chile also had some trouble with Brazil (19-6, only 1 try for Chile).

 

[welshglory]

Oh yea i forgot about the Pacific nations . I think they could compete with the US, Canada and Japan though.

 

[dudeabides]

I think it would be so great to see my national side in a tournament that counts to everybody playing (I didn't get that impression from the Churchill cup). But have they had any more news on this since May? I even check in on Melville's twitter to see if he is talking about that Pacific Nations tournament, heh. There was another article claiming that the relegated South African super Rugby club may play some national teams like the US and Canada, and if that weren't an awesome longshot enough for a team like USA they also say that including non Tri Nations clubs in Super Rugby is still possible in the future:

http://rugbyrugby.com/news/features...w_the_southern_kings__mess_could_help_the_u_s

 

[usausa]

I think it would be so great to see my national side in a tournament that counts to everybody playing (I didn't get that impression from the Churchill cup). But have they had any more news on this since May? I even check in on Melville's twitter to see if he is talking about that Pacific Nations tournament, heh. There was another article claiming that the relegated South African super Rugby club may play some national teams like the US and Canada, and if that weren't an awesome longshot enough for a team like USA they also say that including non Tri Nations clubs in Super Rugby is still possible in the future:

http://rugbyrugby.com/news/features...w_the_southern_kings__mess_could_help_the_u_s

I haven't seen any more information released regarding that tournament.

However, it was recently decided that Canada is to host the 2012 IRB Americas Championship from October 12-20. It will feature Canada A, USA A, Argentina Jaguars (aka Argentina A), and Uruguay A. League system, matches on October 12, 16, and 20. Most table points wins competition.
Recent article from rugbymag (premier section) has said that the US team will pretty much be a team full of non-capped players, with the article estimating that 75% of the team will be uncapped players, only 1 player will have as many as three, and a few will have some 7s caps. It is expected that a lot of the recent All-Americans that won the JRWT this past year will make up the squad as well as other former age-grade players. Head coach Mike Tolkin definitely looking to build depth at the international 15s level as well as giving a lot of younger players a chance to possibly play their way into the squad for Summer 2013 or even the Fall Europe Tour in November.

 

[norcalbuff]

I'd expect to see more guys from the College All Americans than the JAAs (U20s) in the ARC squad. Tolkin said in an interview earlier in the summer that the U20s might be a bit young for what he is looking for. Maybe a couple guys from the U20s like Madison Hughes, Kingsley McGowan, Mike Teo (not at hooker IMO) or Cam Falcon. I think you'll almost certainly see the college guys that were brought into the Eagles camp but didn't make the summer test squad plus perhaps a few others that played well on the AA tour to Ireland (Ryan Roundy, JP Eloff).

 

[norcalbuff]

Here's the ARC squad:

Forwards
Nicholas Wallace (St Mary's College)
Zachary Fenoglio (Glendale)
Derek Asbun (Rosslyn Park FC)
Stanton Moaalii (Glendale RFC)
Anthony Purpura (Boston)
Timothy Paulsen (Chicago Griffins)
Thomas Katzfey (Life University)
Nicholas Civetta (NYAC)
Graham Harriman (Chicago Griffins)
John Quill (Boston)
Kristopher Headlee (Life University)
Taylor Mokate (USA Rugby Sevens)
Eric Duechle (Belmont)
Cameron Dolan (Life University)

Backs
Shaun Davies (BYU)
Benny Mateialona (Life University)
Volney Rouse (San Francisco Golden Gate)
Zachary Pangelinan (OMBAC)
Casey Clark (At Large)
Jack Tracy (Belmont Shore)
Zachary Mizell (Arkansas State University)
Joseph Cowley (Life University)
Dean Gericke (Arkansas State University)
Miles Craigwell (OPSB)
Christopher Chapman (NYAC)
Gearoid McDonald ( Old Belvedere)

3 capped XVs players who were all capped last summer (Mokate, Asbun and Davies) and plus 2 more with 7s caps (Pangelinan and Craigwell, Mokate also).

Should be interesting to see who develops but this team is going to get crushed by Argentina Jaguars and probably handily beaten by Canada A because they are likely to pick more of a domestic all-star team with a few development players than a full developmental team like us.

 

[dudeabides]

Thanks, I was just reading about that selection on the thisisamericanrugby site. Can't wait to watch them in action especially the college guys I haven't seen and the hooker, Fenoglio I have... that is if I can shouldn't take these matches being televised for granted. But if not maybe USA rugby will put them on the ol' ustream channel.

Was also reading that Melville and coach Tolkin are actually trying to get the IRB, at the meeting in Dublin, to move the third test window:

Melville and Tolkin will also discuss the test match windows. Currently there are three periods during the year when national teams can order players to be released for international duty. Two of those the USA uses – June and November. But the third, in February and March, during the Six Nations, is not used because it is smack in the middle of the club season, and there are no teams to play.

USA Rugby will be asking to have that window moved for them and other Tier II nations to July. It is quite possible professional clubs will balk at that, given that their players on pro teams have a hard enough time as it is getting released during the summer.

The key is not only to play games, but rankings tests.

"If the IRB puts a lot of stock in their rankings," Melville said last week, "then we need to be able to play rankings tests."

http://www.rugbymag.com/goff-on-rugby/5837-goffonrugby-usa-has-some-requests-for-irb.html

 

[norcalbuff]

As far as the windows go, I wonder if we shouldn't just try to play during the 3rd window. With many of our Eagles playing in Europe, maybe we should look into trying to join the ENC and base the team out of Germany near some of our military bases there? Obviously you'd want to try out a test there before committing to the whole thing, which is part of why I'm annoyed we are playing 2 tests in North Wales this year. Anyway, just an idea so that our players aren't playing 12 months a year and shortening their careers to play for the Eagles.

 

[norcalbuff]

Also, I had forgotten that Purpura and Rouse got caps against Russia in 2010. So that's 5 capped players.

 

[nush]

sounds good, i like the idea pacific six nations but it seems they are trying to over complicate the schedule, maybe they should follow the nh six nations schedule

 

[Jayatron]

I take it that the rumours at the start of this year of a professional league being established in North America were again false?? I believe that's the way forward for Tier Two Nations.

 

[BZHopenside]

There's this thing about a pro Sevens series, but nothing new has been announced in several months: http://www.grandprixentertainment.com/
For whatever reason, the big tv money (Newscorp), seems to think league is the way forward in rugby, even though nobody knows what league is in the Western Hemisphere.

 

[jlowe]

I would love to see the USA team get more involved with international rugby (worldwide club rugby aswell) ! I think if USA continues their growing of the sport, they will be a good team in the future. Imagine all the players, who are nearly make the NFL but just miss out giving rugby a crack would be good. Would also add popularity among the sport

 

[norcalbuff]

I would love to see the USA team get more involved with international rugby (worldwide club rugby aswell) ! I think if USA continues their growing of the sport, they will be a good team in the future. Imagine all the players, who are nearly make the NFL but just miss out giving rugby a crack would be good. Would also add popularity among the sport

There are only specific positions those guys can succeed in, though. No one taking up rugby at age 23 is going to become an international level flyhalf but they can turn into a quality back row (this helps explain why we've done well with producing back rows but abysmally producing halfbacks). The real key is to get rugby to the point at the youth and high school levels where all of those guys grew up playing rugby so that they aren't starting from scratch at age 23 but rather picking back up where they left off.

 

[psychic duck]

Here's the ARC squad:

Forwards
Nicholas Wallace (St Mary's College)
Zachary Fenoglio (Glendale)
Derek Asbun (Rosslyn Park FC)
Stanton Moaalii (Glendale RFC)
Anthony Purpura (Boston)
Timothy Paulsen (Chicago Griffins)
Thomas Katzfey (Life University)
Nicholas Civetta (NYAC)
Graham Harriman (Chicago Griffins)
John Quill (Boston)
Kristopher Headlee (Life University)
Taylor Mokate (USA Rugby Sevens)
Eric Duechle (Belmont)
Cameron Dolan (Life University)

Backs
Shaun Davies (BYU)
Benny Mateialona (Life University)
Volney Rouse (San Francisco Golden Gate)
Zachary Pangelinan (OMBAC)
Casey Clark (At Large)
Jack Tracy (Belmont Shore)
Zachary Mizell (Arkansas State University)
Joseph Cowley (Life University)
Dean Gericke (Arkansas State University)
Miles Craigwell (OPSB)
Christopher Chapman (NYAC)
Gearoid McDonald ( Old Belvedere)

3 capped XVs players who were all capped last summer (Mokate, Asbun and Davies) and plus 2 more with 7s caps (Pangelinan and Craigwell, Mokate also).

Should be interesting to see who develops but this team is going to get crushed by Argentina Jaguars and probably handily beaten by Canada A because they are likely to pick more of a domestic all-star team with a few development players than a full developmental team like us.

That squad is really full of unknown players. Only really Mokate is a player who has a bit of reputation.

Meanwhile the Argentina Jaguars have selected a very strong squad.

It has a few players from the fringes of the Pumas RC squad such as Cubelli, Montero, de la Vega and Postiglioni. As well as some other strong Argentine based players like González Iglesias, Miralles and Macome.

http://rugbyworldcup-argentina2023.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/strong-jaguares-side-to-tour-canada.html

Have Canada A announced their team?

 

[BZHopenside]

Craigwell is pretty well known, mostly because he was in the NFL, then switched to rugby. He was a big deal in Sevens two years ago, then kind of fell out of favor and is working his way back through 15s.

 

[LittleGuy]

That squad is really full of unknown players. Only really Mokate is a player who has a bit of reputation.

Meanwhile the Argentina Jaguars have selected a very strong squad.

It has a few players from the fringes of the Pumas RC squad such as Cubelli, Montero, de la Vega and Postiglioni. As well as some other strong Argentine based players like González Iglesias, Miralles and Macome.

http://rugbyworldcup-argentina2023.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/strong-jaguares-side-to-tour-canada.html

Have Canada A announced their team?

Not yet PD I think they are reviewing the CRC tapes and coaching staffs and should be finalised soon though, and yes I agree that is a very inexperienced US side, only four players have caps and only a couple of others have played for the Eagles 7's or "A" side.

 

[norcalbuff]

That squad is really full of unknown players. Only really Mokate is a player who has a bit of reputation.

Davies and Asbun both were capped over the summer. Purpura and Rouse have been capped before. Craigwell and Pangelinan have both been capped at 7s and Pangelinan played in the original NA4. A bunch of other guys were either in the extended Eagles squad for the June tests or played for the college All Americans. I wish James Paterson had been picked and tried at 10, though.