The Ukraine War thread

[McTallshort]

Biggish news this. It appears a very very close ally of Russians is supplying Ukraine with lethal aid. Armenia used to rely on Russia to keep Azerbaijan in check but now it appears to be looking for new friends..

 

[Al Bangor]

As men fight, women keep Ukraine coal mines going

STORY: For the first time, women at this Ukrainian mining enterprise are allowed to work underground.This colliery in eastern Ukraine faced a staffing shortage when more than a thousand of its workers went to fight Russia's invasion, making women workers its answer.More than a hundred took up...

news.yahoo.com

 

[McTallshort]

Ukraine says it blew up railway in eastern Russia - BBC News

Explosions are said to have hit trains on the Baikal Amur mainline 500km from the Chinese border.

www.bbc.co.uk

Well that's interesting

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Ukraine war: Kyiv forced to cut military operations as foreign aid dries up

A top general says diminishing foreign military aid is already having an impact on the battlefield.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[McTallshort]

Ukraine war: Kyiv forced to cut military operations as foreign aid dries up

A top general says diminishing foreign military aid is already having an impact on the battlefield.

www.bbc.co.uk

Feel a nasty peace agreement coming next year

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Feel a nasty peace agreement coming next year

And Putin learns he can again get away with it as resolve in the west will collapse at the first sign of hardship. Lessons were not learned from Georgia, they were not learned from Crimea and they aren't being learned here.

 

[General Melchett]

And Putin learns he can again get away with it as resolve in the west will collapse at the first sign of hardship. Lessons were not learned from Georgia, they were not learned from Crimea and they aren't being learned here.

Yup. I can imagine a deal where Putin completes his land grab and the remainder of Ukraine is put in the VIP lane for joining the EU. Finland and Sweden join NATO and everyone claims a win. Wait a few years and there's another false flag where Russian speaking minority in Moldova or Lithuania are being persecuted by the local Nazis. Rinse and repeat. The big question is would he dare try it with a NATO member. If he senses weakness in the west he probably would.

The problem is the Republican party in the US. Election next year and most Americans are more concerned with illegal immigrants than they are with a war far away which in their eyes doesn't affect them. The Republicans are more interested in feeding their base, regaining the Whitehouse and helping Israel. As soon as support for Ukraine from the US buckles it's game over.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Yup. I can imagine a deal where Putin completes his land grab and the remainder of Ukraine is put in the VIP lane for joining the EU. Finland and Sweden join NATO and everyone claims a win. Wait a few years and there's another false flag where Russian speaking minority in Moldova or Lithuania are being persecuted by the local Nazis. Rinse and repeat. The big question is would he dare try it with a NATO member. If he senses weakness in the west he probably would.

The problem is the Republican party in the US. Election next year and most Americans are more concerned with illegal immigrants than they are with a war far away which in their eyes doesn't affect them. The Republicans are more interested in feeding their base, regaining the Whitehouse and helping Israel. As soon as support for Ukraine from the US buckles it's game over.

Imo this shows how foolish European nations have been for abandoning their commitments to maintain their military. I'm left wing and oppose military intervention but we can't be naive and think the world will play nice or that we can rely on the Americans. The USA had shown it does what is best for the USA at all times and will throw any nation under the bus if they thought it was the better option for them or if internal politics demanded it.

Europe should have learned just how vulnerable we are to a prolonged conflict, but I suspect that lesson is also getting ignored by everyone except Poland.

 

[McTallshort]

Imo this shows how foolish European nations have been for abandoning their commitments to maintain their military. I'm left wing and oppose military intervention but we can't be naive and think the world will play nice or that we can rely on the Americans. The USA had shown it does what is best for the USA at all times and will throw any nation under the bus if they thought it was the better option for them or if internal politics demanded it.

Europe should have learned just how vulnerable we are to a prolonged conflict, but I suspect that lesson is also getting ignored by everyone except Poland.

TBF the Baltic countries, Greece and the UK have all kept their defense spending at the NATO standard 2% but it's not just in military terms were European nations have been naive. Hungary is a Russian puppet state in all but name, Germany, Italy and others sold their souls for cheap Russian fossil fuels and many political institutions including the House of Parliament have become play grounds for Russian money and Chinese influence.

Despite the shockingly high casualties Russia appears to be easing through the gears in terms of this war, they have ramped up their economy, spending high (which they can do given how low their national debt was before the invasion), the sanctions have not stopped the manufacturer of cruise missiles or dronesand Putin is about to walk to another election win. The Ukrainians on the other hand have been left high and dry by silly democracies playing silly politics. Zelensky is looking weak and is being openly criticsed by people such as the mayor of Kyiv, the ill-advised summer offensive was a costly failure and now everything is running out

 

[McTallshort]

Ukraine says it downed three Russian Su-34 warplanes

Moscow has not commented officially on the claim but influential Russian bloggers report losses.

www.bbc.co.uk

Had this confirmed on a few other sources. Looks like the Ukrainians have been reluctant to use Patriot systems against Russian aircraft as they didn't want the Russians to develop counter measures but with this and the previous downing of a Russian aircraft near snake island it looks they have decided to go for it with some good results. @BrokenWing how does the patriot stack up against the more modern SAM systems?

 

[BrokenWing]

To be honest, I've only really heard of Patriot being used as anti missile defence.

I don't know much about SAM stuff.

 

[McTallshort]

Russia bars anti-war candidate Yekaterina Duntsova from challenging President Vladimir Putin

Ms Duntsova, 40, said she would appeal the decision at the Supreme Court, calling it unjustified and undemocratic.

news.sky.com

Shocked I am

 

[Reiser99]

Russia bars anti-war candidate Yekaterina Duntsova from challenging President Vladimir Putin

Ms Duntsova, 40, said she would appeal the decision at the Supreme Court, calling it unjustified and undemocratic.

news.sky.com

Shocked I am

I'm sure the Russian Supreme court will find in favour of democracy.

I also like how 29 people have apparently submitted applications to run for president, but only Putin's has been accepted. I wonder if wonder of the questions is, Are you Vladimir Putin? If no then your application will be rejected.

 

[McTallshort]

F-16s could possibly be operational in Ukraine already...

 

[McTallshort]

Russia confirms damage to warship in Black Sea

The Ministry of Defence says the ship was struck by Ukrainian aircraft carrying guided missiles.

www.bbc.co.uk

When the Russians say damaged it normally means completely destroyed

 

[Amiga500]

how does the patriot stack up against the more modern SAM systems?

Its like the F-16 - depends which version - but even the early ones are very useful.

 

[Reiser99]

Also though.

Ukraine denies Russian capture of key town near Donetsk

The completely destroyed town of Mariinka is seen as a gateway to the Russian-held city of Donetsk.

www.bbc.co.uk

Obviously need verification, but would be a big blow to Ukraine.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Cheap but lethally accurate: how drones froze Ukraine’s frontlines

Breakthrough for either side is almost impossible, say those in pulverised Kupiansk area

www.theguardian.com

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Cheap but lethally accurate: how drones froze Ukraine’s frontlines

Breakthrough for either side is almost impossible, say those in pulverised Kupiansk area

www.theguardian.com

NATO has the best weapons but the cost of them is extremely prohibitive. I hope NATO are learning the lessons of the value of masses of cheap and deadly throwaway equipment. Why use a missile costings in the thousands when you can use a fleet of drones for a fraction of the cost.

On the flip side, we need to learn how to counter these. Same issue, you don't want to burn through munitions worth £100,000's to counter things that are a fraction of their cost and can be replaced much more quickly and easily.

 

[McTallshort]

NATO has the best weapons but the cost of them is extremely prohibitive. I hope NATO are learning the lessons of the value of masses of cheap and deadly throwaway equipment. Why use a missile costings in the thousands when you can use a fleet of drones for a fraction of the cost.

On the flip side, we need to learn how to counter these. Same issue, you don't want to burn through munitions worth £100,000's to counter things that are a fraction of their cost and can be replaced much more quickly and easily.

EW can really diminish the drone threat but don't forget how much impact a couple of expensive NATO weapons have had on the war be it modern systems like Storm Shadow, HIMARs and Javelin or cold war stuff like Bradley have all had a disproportionate effect when facing cheaper ex Soviet or the more modern russian stuff