The Lions squad for 2021 prediction

[Welsh Exile]

Seriously man what are you on? Do I have to actually say the words for you to listen instead of reading into thing I haveb't said.

Gatland thought AWJ was a better player than Launchburry

Doesn't not make it a ******* stupid decision caused by bias of him knowing the players.

And what about the other non Welsh coaches who signed off on it. They stupid as well. Do you know more than them too?

 

[ncurd]

And what about the other non Welsh coaches who signed off on it. They stupid as well. Do you know more than them too?

Ah the old 'you don't know as much as the coaches' card.

Or 'lets no have a debate about selection because ultimately we know no nothing' time to close forum down Olyy, coahces words are final.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Ah the old 'you don't know as much as the coaches' card.

Or 'lets no have a debate about selection because ultimately we know no nothing' time to close forum down Olyy, coahces words are final.

Well that was only half the point. The other half where that there were other non Welsh coaches who would've singed off on the decision who would've presumably knew Launchbury very well. I mean, this should t matter as I have already pointed out Gats would've known Launchbury and his game inside out anyway.

It's fine mate, it really makes you and others on here make the most 1 eyed Wales Online Zealot seem pretty reasonable.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Yeah, and if people want to ***** and moan about Gats decisions then fine, I'll probably have a little ***** myself but *****ing about certain calls you disagree with is one thing and saying Gatland has ulterior motives and favours players he knows are poorer coz he favours Welsh players is something completely separate

Dude, chill. Every rugby fan *****es and moans about player selection of their national side. Now Gatland must do the same but from 4 national sides. Of course there'll be backlash and unhappiness about who is selected.

I mean, we were *****ing and moaning about Willie Le Roux being picked at fullback for the Sprinboks against both Wales and England in the World Cup (some also *****ed about Faf and his endless kicking). But in the end it all worked out well...

 

[ncurd]

Well that was only half the point. The other half where that there were other non Welsh coaches who would've singed off on the decision who would've presumably knew Launchbury very well. I mean, this should t matter as I have already pointed out Gats would've known Launchbury and his game inside out anyway.

It's fine mate, it really makes you and others on here make the most 1 eyed Wales Online Zealot seem pretty reasonable.

Right so AWJ (this is not going to happen) doesn't get selected tommorow and all the Welsh fans including yourself are just going to "well Gats knows him best".

 

[Jakedood]

And what about the other non Welsh coaches who signed off on it. They stupid as well. Do you know more than them too?

I think whats being said is that in 50/50 calls, everyone is inherently biased towards players they know better, or maybe even 55/45, or 60/40 calls
This is the same way that a welsh fan knowing the welsh team well but only seeing england when they play Wales might miss the good players in the england team, and vice versa. It's a natural bias, not intentional, but a subconscious one.

I think last time out the decision annoying more people was a Dan Biggar in poor form being taken over a really in form Finn Russell, probably the most controversial of the selections (though I personally wanted Watson to go back then too)

It is a natural thing though, maybe be lessened this year due to him not being in such close proximity to the Wales squad since 2019, not sure if it'll make any difference. Either way you're right, should be an even ish split between england wales and Ireland (maybe slightly fewer irishmen)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

To be fair I want some mad decisions just to see how to players react on tour,

Last time we had players revolting against the attack coach and coaching themselves because they had no faith in him, and players refusing to play with/be subbed off for the Geography players - that's going to be hard to top

 

[Welsh Exile]

Dude, chill. Every rugby fan *****es and moans about player selection of their national side. Now Gatland must do the same but from 4 national sides. Of course there'll be backlash and unhappiness about who is selected.

I mean, we were *****ing and moaning about Willie Le Roux being picked at fullback for the Sprinboks against both Wales and England in the World Cup (some also *****ed about Faf and his endless kicking). But in the end it all worked out well...

The English won't be happy unless it's an all English team every lions tour. We've already had 2 people on here advocate the amazing logic that a team consisting of only Irish and English players should have been picked against NZ.

It would be good to have a more nuanced discussion but in order to do that people have to be specific about what they're talking about. So far all I've got is Launchbury should've gone in 2017.

People can't get specific though as they're not interested in looking at anything outside of their own narrative so it's easier to just go say some unbelievably stupid stuff instead

 

[Jakedood]

To be fair I want some mad decisions just to see how to players react on tour,

Last time we had players revolting against the attack coach and coaching themselves because they had no faith in him, and players refusing to play with/be subbed off for the Geography players - that's going to be hard to top

Tbf to Howley, he may have had a sizeable bet on Lions scoring no tries all series

 

[ncurd]

We've already had 2 people on here advocate the amazing logic that a team consisting of only Irish and English players should have been picked against NZ.

Again literally, not what was said....

 

[Welsh Exile]

Right so AWJ (this is not going to happen) doesn't get selected tommorow and all the Welsh fans including yourself are just going to "well Gats knows him best".

I can only speak for myself but I'd say that would be proof that he doesn't favour Welsh players at all, no.

I agree, they'll be a lot of Welsh fans who'd be going mental no doubt.

 

[ncurd]

I can only speak for myself but I'd say that would be proof that he doesn't favour Welsh players at all, no.

I agree, they'll be a lot of Welsh fans who'd be going mental no doubt.

Yeah I somehow doubt that based on previous history of posts.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I think whats being said is that in 50/50 calls, everyone is inherently biased towards players they know better, or maybe even 55/45, or 60/40 calls
This is the same way that a welsh fan knowing the welsh team well but only seeing england when they play Wales might miss the good players in the england team, and vice versa. It's a natural bias, not intentional, but a subconscious one.

I think last time out the decision annoying more people was a Dan Biggar in poor form being taken over a really in form Finn Russell, probably the most controversial of the selections (though I personally wanted Watson to go back then too)

It is a natural thing though, maybe be lessened this year due to him not being in such close proximity to the Wales squad since 2019, not sure if it'll make any difference. Either way you're right, should be an even ish split between england wales and Ireland (maybe slightly fewer irishmen)

So we've got Biggar and Launchbury. This is progress. Is there anything else or just those 2 heinous decisions.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Gatland, as forwards coach, signed off on Tim Payne being a lion

I'm sorry but that's just unforgivable

 

[Jakedood]

So we've got Biggar and Launchbury. This is progress. Is there anything else or just those 2 heinous decisions.

Okay my memory is pretty crap and cant fully remember form or even the whole squad picked, so may have been more, maybe not have been. as Olly said though, if you read my whole post, probably the reason a HC shouldnt take the Lions (which tbf is the case this year) simply because it is such an honour. And the freedom and appearance of freedom of bias is fairly important

 

[Welsh Exile]

Okay my memory is pretty crap and cant fully remember form or even the whole squad picked, so may have been more, maybe not have been. as Olly said though, if you read my whole post, probably the reason a HC shouldnt take the Lions (which tbf is the case this year) simply because it is such an honour. And the freedom and appearance of freedom of bias is fairly important

I don't think there are any others to be honest. People are making out there's more but there isn't. The rest of the picks are fine but it doesn't make a good argument if you say 99% of the calls are spot on and a lot of the starting lineup had a good mix of English and Irish. Instead it's easier to be revisionist and create a narrative that England have been really hard done by by the horrible Uninformed Gatland.

I kind of agree about your second point but this risk of bias is somewhat mitigated by the fact that the coaching group will have major input on all selection decisions and these coaches usually come from a variety of places not just their personal nationality but what their jobs are.

 

[Welsh Exile]

For anyone interested.

 

[Jakedood]

I don't think there are any others to be honest. People are making out there's more but there isn't. The rest of the picks are fine but it doesn't make a good argument if you say 99% of the calls are spot on and a lot of the starting lineup had a good mix of English and Irish. Instead it's easier to be revisionist and create a narrative that England have been really hard done by by the horrible Uninformed Gatland.

I kind of agree about your second point but this risk of bias is somewhat mitigated by the fact that the coaching group will have major input on all selection decisions and these coaches usually come from a variety of places not just their personal nationality but what their jobs are.

Im not sure they do, Gatland will always has final say... its hard to know loads, as Geech tells of how systems for selection differed a lot under him. And if its a 50/50 call, it becomes Gatland's call

Also in that stat you posted, a jump from 25% to 42% of the squad being welsh is pretty flipping sizeable

 

[ncurd]

Ah here's another one I forgot (brain goes to complete fudge remembering 4 years ago)

Dylan Hartley, England captain didn't tour which was also compounded by Rory Best captaining the mid week side instead of being Grorge's replacement (Owens wasn't even bought on in the match the Lions won).

 

[Welsh Exile]

Im not sure they do, Gatland will always has final say... its hard to know loads, as Geech tells of how systems for selection differed a lot under him. And if its a 50/50 call, it becomes Gatland's call

Also in that stat you posted, a jump from 25% to 42% of the squad being welsh is pretty flipping sizeable

Think you're looking at that wrong. Completely understandable as he's used 2 different shades of red