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Test Match 2: All Blacks v British & Irish Lions (Wellington)

big ginger 8 said:
Since he plays for Ireland now he'll be part of the player welfare programme so probably won't play again until October.
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Let's not forget he was on that this season too. The issue is his ankle is damaged and may need minor op to correct but rest is key too to injury.
 
The_Blindside said:
NZ announce their team 6pm BST today. BIL announce their's 1.30am BST tomorrow morning. According to Wales online.
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Cheers Blindside.

On team I'm looking more and more at last test and in pack few glaring points.

We replaced our George and POM and almost immediately the lineout went to pot.
We replaced all 1 side of scrum and the scrum went to pot.
We are going to drop POM and while I won't complain about it too much - it looks like it is simply just to get Warburton in BUT I'd ask is it just a change to just for sake of it? Like I don't think POM's performance merits being singled out to be dropped. Especially for Warburton who was desperate when he came on and has no form or fitness. Like I've said Sexton was poor and said before 1st test but like while it's being highlighted fairly on Sextons form etc guys like Warburton and AWJ have been let off alot lighter for the same crime by management.

Also the more I watch the 1st test I do wonder did the management not consider guys like Launchbury and Donnacha Ryan seriously. Don't get me wrong guys like Itoje are fully deserving of spots and are amazing players. But they're best rugby is played on firm ground in Feb-May. (Not saying they played poorly in height of winter). But guys like Launchbury and Ryan are best mullocking in a dirty wet winter night as opposed to a firm pitch in May. And would've suited last weekends conditions perfectly.

My point is more did the weather conditions and time of year not come to mind also when planning.
 
munstermuffin said:
Cheers Blindside.

On team I'm looking more and more at last test and in pack few glaring points.

We replaced our George and POM and almost immediately the lineout went to pot.
We replaced all 1 side of scrum and the scrum went to pot.
We are going to drop POM and while I won't complain about it too much - it looks like it is simply just to get Warburton in BUT I'd ask is it just a change to just for sake of it? Like I don't think POM's performance merits being singled out to be dropped. Especially for Warburton who was desperate when he came on and has no form or fitness. Like I've said Sexton was poor and said before 1st test but like while it's being highlighted fairly on Sextons form etc guys like Warburton and AWJ have been let off alot lighter for the same crime by management.

Also the more I watch the 1st test I do wonder did the management not consider guys like Launchbury and Donnacha Ryan seriously. Don't get me wrong guys like Itoje are fully deserving of spots and are amazing players. But they're best rugby is played on firm ground in Feb-May. (Not saying they played poorly in height of winter). But guys like Launchbury and Ryan are best mullocking in a dirty wet winter night as opposed to a firm pitch in May. And would've suited last weekends conditions perfectly.

My point is more did the weather conditions and time of year not come to mind also when planning.
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Sexton's form is not being highlighted fairly whatsoever, had Sexton started and played like Farrell there'd be calls for his head but when he had a very strong showing against the Maori, controlling the game from 10 nothing was. Sexton and Best have received the harshest criticism on this tour by a long way, whioe some guys like Farrell, Te'o and AWJ (prior to Saturday) are being hilariously overvalued.

Saturday confirmed my belief that selection matters nowt anyway considering Gatland couldn't coach a rest of World XV to beat NZ, this is a guy who had his successes in Europe v Eddie O'Sullivan, Martin Johnson, Brian Ashton, Declan Kidney and Stuart Lancaster (his toughest opposition head coach was a notorious bottler) and Robbie Deans joke of an Aussie side... This list is a who's who of incompetent international coaches,I'll give Gatland his dues and say he's a competent coach but when the going gets tough his mediocrity shines through...
 
The Alpha Bro said:
Sexton's form is not being highlighted fairly whatsoever, had Sexton started and played like Farrell there'd be calls for his head but when he had a very strong showing against the Maori, controlling the game from 10 nothing was. Sexton and Best have received the harshest criticism on this tour by a long way, whioe some guys like Farrell, Te'o and AWJ (prior to Saturday) are being hilariously overvalued.

Saturday confirmed my belief that selection matters nowt anyway considering Gatland couldn't coach a rest of World XV to beat NZ, this is a guy who had his successes in Europe v Eddie O'Sullivan, Martin Johnson, Brian Ashton, Declan Kidney and Stuart Lancaster (his toughest opposition head coach was a notorious bottler) and Robbie Deans joke of an Aussie side... This list is a who's who of incompetent international coaches,I'll give Gatland his dues and say he's a competent coach but when the going gets tough his mediocrity shines through...
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I'm on about pre tour. Sexton has played like a drain the last few months. Even he says it. Farrell has played excellently. On tour admittedly it's been a different story although Sextons opener was what set him back hugely too.
To be fair haven't heard too much criticism on Best and Te'o to be honest has had a great tour. As for rest fair points.

On side point has Gatland never beaten a Schmidt coached Ireland?

Edit:
Gatland 3 (including this year if it counts)
Schmidt 2
1 draw
 
The Alpha Bro said:
Saturday confirmed my belief that selection matters nowt anyway
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I'm with you on this,
It's why I don't think it matters if tipuric plays, And I don't think it matters if we play Sexton/Farrell together (on paper our best midfield).
Gatland doesn't look at his players and work out how to use to them to the best of their ability, He looks at his game plan and shoehorns whoever is available in to it - he's shown this time and time again over the past however many years.
 
The match day 23 for the DHL New Zealand Lions Series Test is (with Test caps in brackets):

1. Joe Moody (26)
2. Codie Taylor (17)
3. Owen Franks (92)
4. Brodie Retallick (62)
5. Samuel Whitelock (86)
6. Jerome Kaino (79)
7. Sam Cane (42)
8. Kieran Read (98) - Captain
9. Aaron Smith (60)
10. Beauden Barrett (51)
11. Rieko Ioane (3)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (35)
13. Anton Lienert-Brown (11)
14. Waisake Naholo (12)
15. Israel Dagg (63)

16. Nathan Harris (6)
17. Wyatt Crockett (60)
18. Charlie Faumuina (48)
19. Scott Barrett (6)
20. Ardie Savea (14)
21. TJ Perenara (31)
22. Aaron Cruden (48)
23. Ngani Laumape *
 
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The Alpha Bro said:
Sexton's form is not being highlighted fairly whatsoever, had Sexton started and played like Farrell there'd be calls for his head but when he had a very strong showing against the Maori, controlling the game from 10 nothing was. Sexton and Best have received the harshest criticism on this tour by a long way, whioe some guys like Farrell, Te'o and AWJ (prior to Saturday) are being hilariously overvalued.

Saturday confirmed my belief that selection matters nowt anyway considering Gatland couldn't coach a rest of World XV to beat NZ, this is a guy who had his successes in Europe v Eddie O'Sullivan, Martin Johnson, Brian Ashton, Declan Kidney and Stuart Lancaster (his toughest opposition head coach was a notorious bottler) and Robbie Deans joke of an Aussie side... This list is a who's who of incompetent international coaches,I'll give Gatland his dues and say he's a competent coach but when the going gets tough his mediocrity shines through...
Click to expand...
I will never understand your distaste for teo
 
The_Blindside said:
The match day 23 for the DHL New Zealand Lions Series Test is (with Test caps in brackets):

1. Joe Moody (26)
2. Codie Taylor (17)
3. Owen Franks (92)
4. Brodie Retallick (62)
5. Samuel Whitelock (86)
6. Jerome Kaino (79)
7. Sam Cane (42)
8. Kieran Read (98) - Captain
9. Aaron Smith (60)
10. Beauden Barrett (51)
11. Rieko Ioane (3)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (35)
13. Anton Lienert-Brown (11)
14. Waisake Naholo (12)
15. Israel Dagg (63)

16. Nathan Harris (6)
17. Wyatt Crockett (60)
18. Charlie Faumuina (48)
19. Scott Barrett (6)
20. Ardie Savea (14)
21. TJ Perenara (31)
22. Aaron Cruden (48)
23. Ngani Laumape *
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Dagg at FB and Ioane on the wing makes that a balanced and brilliant back 3.

It's going to take one incredible effort from the Lions and they have to somehow dominate possession and prevent that fluid NZ ball that they are so utterly brilliant at.
 
themole25 said:
I will never understand your distaste for teo
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I don't rate him as a top international player and I think the Lions have one, 2 prior to injury. He's been praised so much for his performances and while they've been impressive games none of them are going to contribute to beating NZ over 80 mins, there's two other options that could and have, albeit one from 10. Great guy to have in the 23 jersey, not a fantastic starter!
 
Ok from Irish POV there may be **** storm.
On off the ball the lads in NZ reckon
McGrath will drop out of 23
Sean O'Brien down to #20 or out of 23
POM out of 23
Murray at 9
Sexton at 22.
Tadgh at 3.

Not sure on it but that'd make it 3 Irish 4 max unless Henderson comes in.

Now I just don't understand how a Welsh team that have been terrible the last 18months can backbone this team if true.
 
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When the A.I 's come around later this year, Eddie will have Teo back on the bench and Farrell in the 12 shirt. It works for England, why not the Lions, or does it have to be Gatlands way or no way?
 
Liam Mellor said:
Dagg at FB and Ioane on the wing makes that a balanced and brilliant back 3.

It's going to take one incredible effort from the Lions and they have to somehow dominate possession and prevent that fluid NZ ball that they are so utterly brilliant at.
Click to expand...

With that backline, if the AB's are able to get the ball wide with any sort of regularity, it will be carnage.
 
smartcooky said:
With that backline, if the AB's are able to get the ball wide with any sort of regularity, it will be carnage.
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Agreed- they are three who can crush the Lions dream. I really don't want to play a kicking game to Dagg. I rate him incredibly highly and I'd much rather try and turn NZ around with a long kicking game/touchfinder than kicking bombs down Daggs throat.

Personally I would swap Elliot Daly to FB for his boot and then decide between Williams and North on the left wing.
 
smartcooky said:
With that backline, if the AB's are able to get the ball wide with any sort of regularity, it will be carnage.
Click to expand...
That's the fear I have. Lions are a narrow defensive system which requires a team to have class and speed to exploit the outside. Needless to say they have that in All Black XV helped by the 9-10-12 trio keeping Lions very honest and naturally sucking in to stay defensive
 
smartcooky said:
With that backline, if the AB's are able to get the ball wide with any sort of regularity, it will be carnage.
Click to expand...
they dont even have to get it wide. have naholo, ioane and laumape attack thru the mid field and they will soften up the defence.
 
TW27BA said:
When the A.I 's come around later this year, Eddie will have Teo back on the bench and Farrell in the 12 shirt. It works for England, why not the Lions, or does it have to be Gatlands way or no way?
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yes. i dont see eddie coaching this team
 

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