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Steffon Armitage wanting to play for France.?!



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I was talking about players in general.

Say like Lote Tuqiri wanted to play for Fiji after Leinster or something.

Or Sitiveni Sivivatu

I don't agree with it but, I have a degree of empathy with them.
 
Just thought:
Stephen Ferris was born in Northern Ireland, so can get a British passport so is eligible for Team GB, so is eligible for England 7s (as the highest ranked GB side it's the side that acts as GB's qualifier) so could play for England - why is the RFU not pumping a ton of cash into cybernetic research to replace his knees and get him playing for England? :p

If the parts are made in England, then he's essentially partly grown up in England. Who are we to tell him that he can't play for both sides? This is the professional game, and as such loyalty or the basics rules of international sport mean nothing anymore. You guys can't turn around and tell him he's a turn coat for changing his country, because I say so.
 
To add in. Went to bring herself to see Inbetweeners 2. What a load of ****. Like if that's what English can produce as their "BEST" Armitage should go. I'm after loosing 2 hours of my life that could've been spent on here but the worst part is I'll never get them 2 hours back. Seriously it's worst I've seen in long time with an equally **** ending.
 
To add in. Went to bring herself to see Inbetweeners 2. What a load of ****. Like if that's what English can produce as their "BEST" Armitage should go. I'm after loosing 2 hours of my life that could've been spent on here but the worst part is I'll never get them 2 hours back. Seriously it's worst I've seen in long time with an equally **** ending.

8/10 then?
 
The point is, Ewis, that it undermines the entire premise of international rugby.

It's what differentiates it from club rugby - your ******** about him not having an "English style" is entirely irrelevant.

I know you are opposed to nationalism and patriotism - but representing your country means a ****ing lot to a lot of people.
Enough to overwhelm them to the point where they cry uncontrollably during their national anthem.

That is a major reason why international rugby is inherrently more intense than club rugby - the emotional intensity.
If you compromise that (by allowing players to switch their allegiances) then you only serve to erode one of the things that makes the international game great.

is that necessary rats ?
Oh and you've skipped a number of stages in what I think of nationalism; I'm certainly not opposed to loving your country :lol: and if you'll allow I'd like to give you your insult back by affirming that what you're saying about ppl crying during anthems and what not is as much ********* (whatever word you picked there !) as what I've said. This has nothing to do with country and nationalism, this is business, this is a pro athlete's decision in his own career. Maybe he doesn't feel all that English, in fact maybe he never did, and again he's always been between those two nations, it's not like France bought him out of the blue.

As for France, well, the Top 14 has loads of foreigners, that's the reality of it. Some say we ought to reap the benefits from it eventually, at some point...Kockott's the best 9 in the championship, if he's eligible, they'll pick him. I'm against it, it's been widely debated recently on one of the France threads...

Ideally, I want all-French players, obviously; nobody wants some foreigner to do well and then the whole world says "yeah but you won with foreigners"; but money corrupts all and that's what's happening. We're ready to take Rory Kockott as our starting 9 into the RWC; which is absolutely hilarious considering we're by far the deepest nation at SH. But he's that tad bit better, so they want him. He's a Saffer though, he ain't French at all, so I say no.
I'm much more lenient for Armitage's case for the aforementioned reasons.
 
To add in. Went to bring herself to see Inbetweeners 2. What a load of ****. Like if that's what English can produce as their "BEST" Armitage should go. I'm after loosing 2 hours of my life that could've been spent on here but the worst part is I'll never get them 2 hours back. Seriously it's worst I've seen in long time with an equally **** ending.
F**k, don't say that!
I absolutely love the three series and first film, not seen the second yet!
 
Ewis, you're missing the point.

How he grew up, what identity he feels, all of that, it is irrelevant. Once you pull on a nation's jersey at international level, that should be it. That's the argument. That in pulling on an England shirt, he has declared he is for all rugby purposes, English. Done. Finished. That's how it's been and how a lot of people want it.

And for him to take a loophole and change that strikes people as crap.

Me, I don't blame him as much, but I hate the loophole and I hate this change. I've argued for as liberal an interpretation of international eligibility as anyone here because I believe in not dictating to people what national identity they are. But this is ********. Armitage has made his choice, he should live by it. And that goes for all the other players looking at changing nationalities as well.
 
F**k, don't say that!
I absolutely love the three series and first film, not seen the second yet!

Man I'm same so I will advise don't ruin yourself. It's just to forced. The first film was natural comedy but this was too forced
 
I know you are opposed to nationalism and patriotism - but representing your country means a ****ing lot to a lot of people.
Enough to overwhelm them to the point where they cry uncontrollably during their national anthem.

That is a major reason why international rugby is inherrently more intense than club rugby - the emotional intensity.
If you compromise that (by allowing players to switch their allegiances) then you only serve to erode one of the things that makes the international game great.

oh and I forgot to mention...just because you don't cry uncontrollably during the anthem doesn't mean you don't love your country as others and aren't moved. Just because you have a bit of control and prefer discretion doesn't make you a horrible emotionless villain. It's a little subtle, a bit too much for some I've found, but it exists. Some can be proud without wielding flags, or being thick and/or demonstrative at all times.
Bruce Dickinson and his English flag, that's a gimmick, it's a populist commercial move to appeal to a certain targeted public, create a "thing"...it's okay, it's just that it's in very, very bad taste for me and incredibly thick and downright primitive. *IF* IFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can state my opinion without being shot from 15 snipers at the same time, fuccking North Korea around here. And I thank you in advance for letting me explain my position, very grateful, no, really. Thank you.

I have certain conclusions about France I've come to after years of experiences and observations and careful assessment, but some I'd rather keep for myself (unless I"m asked directly). You don't have to be manifesting all, spewing everything out.

Another important point for me is, "my country" is only the culture really. My government, the politics, all that doesn't represent me. I "belong" to France in that I revel in being part of a culture and civilization my forefathers have built before me. But those are things between me and myself, and NO ONE else -
I don't need to show everybody how patriotic I am, I don't need to be happy with everything France is or does, I don't need to be a number in the sheep herd, part of the unique thought phenomenon, I don't need to hate Englishmen just because I'm French, or eat oysters for Christmas or even enjoy French literature particularly. People can call me very French or not French at all it doesn't change what "French" or "France" means to me.
My frenchness isn't a virtual property for others to relish and feed on, it's between me and myself and that only. And ppl like some of you here who get extremely excited over such topics and what nationalism means and ooh how important it is and big words like treason and all that and how empty you are if you don't subscribe to all that...understand some think differently. That's just a fact, it's a lot harder to judge people than what we think most of the time. We love it to be simple, but it just isn't at times.
 
Ewis, you're missing the point.

How he grew up, what identity he feels, all of that, it is irrelevant. Once you pull on a nation's jersey at international level, that should be it. That's the argument. That in pulling on an England shirt, he has declared he is for all rugby purposes, English. Done. Finished. That's how it's been and how a lot of people want it.

And for him to take a loophole and change that strikes people as crap.

Me, I don't blame him as much, but I hate the loophole and I hate this change. I've argued for as liberal an interpretation of international eligibility as anyone here because I believe in not dictating to people what national identity they are. But this is ********. Armitage has made his choice, he should live by it. And that goes for all the other players looking at changing nationalities as well.

Oh, I disagree. You say "if you put on a shirt once, that's it, that's how it is" - but it's not anymore. Times have changed. And for a guy, again, like Steffon A. who's played in both countries a lot, I can see some legitimacy in him playing for both. The bulk of your post is that because he's "made a choice once, that's it" like it was soft clay and then turned stone-hard, but that's just not true. He's looking at playing for Sevens for France, and it seems like it could happen.
Now, if you want to debate "philosophically" the ideals and principles behind that, go ahead, I've done mine. But you can't come in here and tell me I'm missing the point and that "that's it, he's made his choice". It's not really like that in fact, as this thread attests.
 
Be interesting to see how his (English) Dad feels about this - remember seeing an interview with him where he said when the Armitage brothers were playing in France as kids he always wanted them to play for England.
 
Be interesting to see how his (English) Dad feels about this - remember seeing an interview with him where he said when the Armitage brothers were playing in France as kids he always wanted them to play for England.

Probably something similar to how Shane Gegharty's dad felt about him playing for England.
 
Are his parents Irish? I thought it was Grandparents.
Either way: Embarrassed that someone thought he was good enough :p

Could well be, it's a long time since I heard the story that his dad/grandad walked out of the room upon hearing. Probably out of the embarassment yeah!
 
Oh, I disagree. You say "if you put on a shirt once, that's it, that's how it is" - but it's not anymore. Times have changed. And for a guy, again, like Steffon A. who's played in both countries a lot, I can see some legitimacy in him playing for both. The bulk of your post is that because he's "made a choice once, that's it" like it was soft clay and then turned stone-hard, but that's just not true. He's looking at playing for Sevens for France, and it seems like it could happen.
Now, if you want to debate "philosophically" the ideals and principles behind that, go ahead, I've done mine. But you can't come in here and tell me I'm missing the point and that "that's it, he's made his choice". It's not really like that in fact, as this thread attests.

But you are missing the point, because your posts indicate that you feel that people are attacking the move because he is super-English, or insufficiently French, or because its sour grapes, when in actuality people are attacking it because it betrays the principle of Rugby Union that was representing one country only at man's level. Yes, that has been changed, but that doesn't mean people like it. That's the point Ewis. How it was, was how it should be. That is the argument being made. Your posts come nowhere near answering that and instead debate people on issues they never raised.

Are his parents Irish? I thought it was Grandparents.
Either way: Embarrassed that someone thought he was good enough :p

Thought Geraghty was Irish on both sides. Just found an Indie article - dad born in Mayo, mum Irish ancestors. Someone in the family musta been pee'd off, but if you will go raising your kids in countries you don't want them to play for...

Anyway, just found this quote in the Indie article:

"Ireland could rue the day they let Geraghty slip away, and rue it soon. " - well, that one didn't quite play out...
 
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