Steffon Armitage wanting to play for France.?!

[ratsapprentice]

I don't know how many years France require - but it's almost certainly continual rather than overall.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, I'd presume continual, would be weird if they counted time from almost 20yrs ago.

And it's 5years residence for French citizenship.

 

[ratsapprentice]

It will be interesting to see what sort of influence they can have at the passport office then!

 

[goodNumber10]

Yeah, I'd presume continual, would be weird if they counted time from almost 20yrs ago.

And it's 5years residence for French citizenship.

and then you must pass a language and citizenship test, and then be sworn in and then apply for your passport (you don't a passport just for having citizenship).

 

[ratsapprentice]

Can't imagine the language or citizenship test being a massive hurdle if it's anything like our equivalent.

 

[goodNumber10]

Can't imagine the language or citizenship test being a massive hurdle if it's anything like our equivalent.

a South African I coach with just did it, he said it's pretty tough.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Given that Steffon had lived there for a number of years in his youth, that is.

 

[gaston le gaff]

his French is very good so the problem is not there!!!

 

[Jaguares]

This is true? I can't believe!

 

[Big Ewis]

a South African I coach with just did it, he said it's pretty tough.

that is DAMN hard to believe, seeing the fuccking retar.....err, I mean, the people of rougher neighborhoods originally from other places we have in France...

 

[gaston le gaff]

This is true? I can't believe!

Just try talking to him French you may be very surprised my friend!!! his brother also speaks fluent French.

 

[goodNumber10]

I'd be surprised if they didn't... Going to a regular french school for 4 years or so without it would be impossible.

 

[Big Ewis]

I think, just looking at the situation now, as long as you can pull out the racist card in a quick little sentence you're basically good to go. STAMP - French nationality, next. If you know the words "raciste" or another good one also is "islamophobe", shieeet mayn, you gon do great in Frans. Don't matter that you're worthless on every imaginable level humanely, dos teh key werds. ..


shieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet..

But because Armitage plays well with a Rugby ball, we'll be sure to make it exxxxtra-smooth for em. I'm sure he can basically go like "hey you...fukk France !" and the dude would go "hahaha !! I know, I know !...now please, sign here...and here...."

 

[FrenchFan]

I can see this as way forward (or out) of the quagmire FFR and League have got themselves into : give citizenship to more foreigners playing here.

I think a backrow like Steffon Armitage and his bro as fullback, Kockott as 9 wouldn't look out of place in any Intl side. it'd be great to see the best English No7 play for us.

Kockott will get called for the next 6N. Almost guaranteed.

watch for a bigger exodus after the WC.

 

[Big Ewis]

yep. In a perfect world (wasn't so long ago ! ) France plays French players, with the odd Saffa poach but even that was a whole lot more "legal", but this isn't a perfect world anymore. We have to wake up to the realities of the current situation, and Kockott is the best SH in the championship so if there's a chance France can poach him they will. Same for a bunch of other guys, just as long as it says so 'on paper', just so long as it's "legal".
Some fans, and I join them partly, feel since we have such a huge league attracting so many good foreigners and are losing lots of ground because of it in terms of local real French talent, we might as well reap some benefits. I'm not super happy obviously with Kockott being our SH, I mean for fukk's sake, the irony, we're most probably the deepest nation in the world for that position specifically !! - but those are the realities and we must accept them by force. Such is the actual situation.
Clearly there'll be a 'bigger exodus after the WC' FrenchFan, no doubt.

Of course the hilarious thing is, no one player or no entire army of new players will change the fact that Saint-André is the guy coaching. You can't heal a patient by eliminating some of the superficial symptoms, you have to eliminate the problem at its source.
As long as it's PSA and co. coaching, we can seriously add a few All-Blacks, more Saffas and some Aussie guys in there, I'm not interested.

 

[smartcooky]

Regulation 8 - Eligibility for National Teams, has been changed to bring it in line with the Olympic Charter, which effectively states that no person shall be denied the right to compete for the country of his nationality in Olympic Competition. Since Nationality in the OC is detemined by the holding of a passport, this would be at odds with the iRB's "one nation forever" regulation.


What has happened is that a set of guidelines have been added that specifically allow a change of nationality for sevens.

Here are those guidelines...

[TEXTAREA]Explanatory Guidelines on the Implementation of Regulation 8 – Olympic Eligibility
With the re-introduction of Rugby Sevens into the Olympic Games in Rio in 2016 there are certain rules which participants must adhere to for eligibility purposes. The Olympic Eligibility Regulations (8.6 to 8.16) have been introduced to accommodate the Olympic Charter Rules. To assist in the implementation of these Regulations, the following Guidelines have been developed to address the specifics around Olympic Sevens eligibility which differs from that of IRB eligibility requirements in that it is based solely upon a nationality consideration alone. The two sets of rules have been combined to achieve harmony between the objectives and underlying philosophy of Regulation 8 and the requirements of the Olympic Charter in the context of participation in Olympic Events. These
Explanatory Guidelines must be read in conjunction with the terms of Regulation 8 and the Guidelines thereto.

1. Who is eligible to play Olympic Sevens?
Any Player who meets the eligibility criteria in 8.1 and holds the nationality of the Union / country they wish to represent in the Olympic Games or Olympic Qualification process (known as the "Olympic Events"). The eligibility rules in the Olympic Charter together with the IRB eligibility rules must be complied with by Players who participate in Olympic Events.

2. Must a Player have the passport of the Union / country he represents in Olympic Sevens?
The nationality of the Union / country the Player wishes to represent in Olympic Sevens is a requirement under the Olympic Charter and is therefore necessary for participation in Olympic Events. Nationality is ordinarily demonstrated by the Player holding the assport of the Union / county they wish to represent. All matters relating to the determination of the country which a Player may represent in the Olympic Games shall ultimately be resolved by the IOC Executive Board.

3. Who will decide on Olympic Sevens eligibility?
Ordinarily, the assessment of whether a Player satisfies the eligibility criteria in Regulation 8.1 and 8.6 will be straightforward. However, in all cases where a Player who has been captured under Regulation 8.2 and who holds the nationality of another Union / country and wishes to participate in an Olympic Event(s) for the Union / country of which he is a national, the Player may apply to the IRB to represent the National Representative Sevens Team of that Union (or the Olympic Sevens Team of an National Olympic Committee), and the case shall be determined in the first place by the IRB Regulations Committee. In the event there are other cases of uncertainty or there is the need for clarification a referral may be made to the IRB Regulations Committee.

4. What is required to be submitted to the Regulations Committee?
Applications should be submitted to the IRB accompanied by all relevant supporting documents by the Union (or in applicable cases where there is no Union, the National Olympic Committee ("NOC")) of the country the Player wishes to represent in an Olympic Event. The application shall be pre-notified to the Player's Union (namely the Union who's National Representative Team the Player has previously represented. The Player's Union may make written submissions to the IRB Regulations Committee or may be invited to do so.

5. Can a Player with dual nationality, or having IRB eligibility for one Union but the nationality of another, represent both Unions / countries in the same Olympic qualification process?
No. A Player may only represent one Union / country in the Olympic Events. For example if a Player played for a Union in the Sevens World Series in the year it was designated as an Olympic Event the Player could not later in the same Sevens World Series play for another Union / country even in circumstances where he was deemed eligibly by the Regulations Committee to play for the second Union / country of which he is a national. The principle of Regulation 8.2 applies equally to Olympic Events, such that if a Player, having represented one Union / country in an Olympic Event they may not represent another Union / country thereafter.

6. Can a Player switch nationality?
Nationality is a matter which is governed by nation states. If a Player does switch nationality the effect of this upon their Olympic eligibility would need to be considered taking into account Regulation 8.6 to 8.16 and the Olympic Charter Rules regarding eligibility which can be found at www.olympic.org. However, a Player who has represented one Union / country in an Olympic Event(s) and who has changed their nationality or acquired a new nationality may participate in Olympic Events to represent
their new Union / country provided that at least three (3) years have passed since the Player last represented their former Union / country and the approval of the International Olympic Committee, the relevant National Olympic Committee(s) and the IRB is obtained.

7. How will the Olympic eligibility criteria be assessed?
In the early days of the Olympic participation the view has been taken by the IRB that the Regulations Committee should assess all cases where a Player who has already been captured for a Union under the one Union only rule (Regulation 8.2) but wishes to subsequently play for another Union / country for which s/he holds nationality in an Olympic Event.

8. Is there any stand-down period?
Yes. The Player will be required to observe and demonstratea stand down period of three (3) years between the time the Player last played for his Union and the time the Player first represents the second Union, which must be in an Olympic Event. Played, shall mean when s/he played for the senior, next senior or senior sevens National Representative Team of that Union for which s/he is captured. The principles of Regulation 8.3
apply in any assessment of this provision.

9. What does 'first represents' mean?
It means the first occasion when the Player represents the second Union in a Match, Tournament or Series of Matches – which must be in an Olympic Event. The Player would not however, be permitted for example to participate in pre-season Matches or so-called 'friendly' matches or other Matches which are not Olympic Events representing the second Union. Training with the team of the second Union is permitted but the circumstances should not be such that it presents or implies to third parties that the Player is part of the National Representative Sevens Team or Olympic Sevens Team of the second Union / country.

10. How will the stand-down period be assessed?
The onus will be on the Player to demonstrate to the reasonable satisfaction of the Regulations Committee the last occasion upon which s/he played for their former Union and that they have not represented such Union in the three year period before they represent their new Union / country in an Olympic Event.

11. Are these Olympic Guidelines to be read with the IRB Eligibility Guidelines?
Yes, both sets of Guidelines should be read together.

12. What is the position for Unions who do not have a single NOC to represent them?
Member Unions of the IRB are not necessarily recognised in their own right with equivalent NOC's, for example the British Olympic Association (Team BG ) is the NOC for Great Britain and therefore encapsulates the IRB Unions of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland (represent by the all-Ireland body of the IRFU). In such case, Players from the underlying Unions would be eligible (where they comply with Regulation 8.1 and 8.6) to represent the Olympic Sevens Team of the NOC (if selected) in relevant Olympic Events.

13. If a Player plays for a combined team in an Olympic Event does it affect his eligibility in relation to the IRB?
If a Player plays for a combined team of a country in an Olympic Event (e.g. Team GB ) and he was previously not captured for a Union (under Regulation 8.2) then the Player will be deemed to be captured for one of the underlying Unions of the combined team of country he represented. So in the case of Team GB it would mean that the Player would then be free to play for one of England, Scotland, Wales and/or Ireland. If a Player plays for a combined team of a country in an Olympic Event
(e.g. Team GB ) and he was previously was captured for a Union (under Regulation 8.2) then the Player remains captured for such Union and their participation in the combined team in the Olympic Event will not affect
their status.

14. Is there a right of appeal from the decision of the IRB Regulations
Yes. An Olympic Eligibility appeals committee has been established under Regulation 2 to deal with any appeals of decisions by the IRB Regulations Committee.

15 For the Olympic Games 2016 in Rio, do any special provisions apply?
Rugby Sevens will enter the Olympic Games for the first time in 2016. The qualification process has been established and all persons eligible to participate must have qualified by 11 July 2016. In terms of eligibility, the three (3) year stand-down period applies. However, given the timing of the clarification of the qualification process and the constitutional review of the eligibility requirements for Olympic Events a shorter stand-down period in respect only of the Olympic Games 2016 shall apply. In this regard any Player who wishes to represent a Union / country for whom s/he holds the nationality and has previously been captured for another Union may do so provided the Player stands down from their current Union at least 18 months before representing the Second Union in an Olympic Event in the Rio Olympic Games cycle.[/TEXTAREA]

This loophole has been created by these two Regulations

[TEXTAREA]8.7 A Player who is a national of the country or Union for which he has been captured under Regulation 8.2 and who holds the nationality of another country or Union, may apply to participate in an Olympic Event to represent his new country or Union subject to the following conditions;


8.7.2 The Player will be required to observe and demonstrate a stand down period of at least 3 years since the time the Player last represented their former Union and the time the Player first plays for the second Union or country, which must be in an Olympic Event. The Player may not represent the second Union in any other form of the Game until after they have participated in such Olympic Event.[/TEXTAREA]

This would allow someone who previously played 15s for one country to play 15s for another country, however, it is not an easy or quick loophole to exploit.


1. The player can only change if they actually play sevens in Olympic Competition (including qualifying; for the 2016 Olympics, the 2014/15 iRB World Series sevens in the qualifying event)
2. The player must stand-down from his first country for three years
3. He must hold a passport for the second country (therefore will have to meet residency criteria for that country)
4. Once a player switches once, he cannot switch back or to any other union.
5. The first union may protest the switch and take it to appeal (see guideline #14)

The timing would have to be right, and a player could have to stand down for as long as seven years playing from playing for their first union before being able to qualify for their second union. While the 2014/15 World Series is a qualifying event, the 2015/16. 2016/17, and 2017/18 events are not, so, for example, a player who last played for this current national team in late 2012 would not be able to represent a new union until 2019 because the first available Olympic Qualifying event will be the 2018/19 iRB World Series. NOTE: there is an exception in place for the 2016 Olympics due to the "short notice" of the new regulations (Guideline 15).

 

[Maverick1987]

So this story was in the daily mail today . Do we care if he decides to play for France or not ?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yes.
Not so much that he'll be unavailable for us, or that France will gain from it, but because the rule is ridiculous and he's a turncoat *******.

If he ever plays at Twickenham for France then I hope the crowd pelt him with onions, garlic, and other stereotypical clichéd French items.

 

[munstermuffin]

Yes.
Not so much that he'll be unavailable for us, or that France will gain from it, but because the rule is ridiculous and he's a turncoat *******.

If he ever plays at Twickenham for France then I hope the crowd pelt him with onions, garlic, and other stereotypical clichéd French items.

Is it really that bad though? Like yea I agree with rule being ridiculous but even when he player with London Irish England didn't want him. And if it's his only route back to international rugby can we slam him?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Is it really that bad though? Like yea I agree with rule being ridiculous but even when he player with London Irish England didn't want him. And if it's his only route back to international rugby can we slam him?

...errr...