Steffon Armitage wanting to play for France.?!

[goodNumber10]

Born in Trinidad (only lived there for a year or so I believe, moved to England, then live in France from the age of 11 for 5 years.
Moved back to England and joined the LI academy.

IIRC the French told them they were too small to play representative rugby (I know this is certainly true of Delon).

 

[Tony Manx]

Guess I feel that everyone here is perhaps wrong in thinking that Stefan, and others, just want to play international rugby......they want the money that goes with it!!!

The various International Boards play internationals for money to pay for the continuance of their clubs or establish and grow grassroots rugby or, in a small number of cases, their corrupt officials!

Most international players nowadays would not play for the their country if they were not highly paid......why risk injury and perhaps see early retirement as a result of it!

Why should not players use whatever they can to join the gravy trains?

They and their coaches already bend whatever rules they can to win and, therefore, make money.

The owners bend rules to get the best players to win matches to make more money. It goes on....

Why should SA and his ilk be any different......not saying I like it, I do not, but it is a fact of life!

 

[Big Ewis]

Maybe you are...but its still wrong. And this is just the start....it would lead to loads of people doing it....unless of course the IRb stand up and make a point and stop non 7's players being selected.
Even the rugby laws allow nationality changes...its non rugby elements that have led to this potentially being possible...ie The olympics.

You are still not giving me facts to your arguement Ewis...

ahh, quit tempting me to start all over again ! :lol:

What facts ? What facts do you need lol ? this conversation is based on opinions and principles and stances.
The only facts have been given before:
Steffon Armitage is an English citizen who may be naturalized French soon with this whole Olympics Sevens thing. He lived in France during his youth/teens, played for Nice who were big at the time. He then played in England, and later for England, 5 caps. Then returned to France, Toulon in 2011. He speaks both languages fluently, has played *formative* Rugby on both soils, but a piece of paper (passport, since we're doing facts here) states he's English, has an English parent.

The only shiit I read in return to my arguments is: "int'l Rugby isn't a business to start with, there is an emotion and a pride there first; you should want to play for your country or you don't deserve the shirt; he's played 5 caps for England already, bottom line; once you pick a country, that's it; he's made a choice, finished, done"
Those aren't facts, or at least facts that act as facts as far as ending this discussion.

I just now went back and noticed I replied to it here:

Oh, I disagree. You say "if you put on a shirt once, that's it, that's how it is" - but it's not anymore. Times have changed. And for a guy, again, like Steffon A. who's played in both countries a lot, I can see some legitimacy in him playing for both. The bulk of your post is that because he's "made a choice once, that's it" like it was soft clay and then turned stone-hard, but that's just not true. He's looking at playing for Sevens for France, and it seems like it could happen.
Now, if you want to debate "philosophically" the ideals and principles behind that, go ahead, I've done mine. But you can't come in here and tell me I'm missing the point and that "that's it, he's made his choice". It's not really like that in fact, as this thread attests.

Now if no one wants to add anything new to this thread, I'm done here.

 

[Geordie]

You say "if you put on a shirt once, that's it, that's how it is" - but it's not anymore.

Yes of course it is ...and it should be. Rugby laws state that once you have played for one country you cant change....that hasnt changed.

It is an outside element that is creating this problem.

So are you saying the below is ok.

England desperately need a 12...so they think (rubbing their hands) who shall we pick....how about Luke Mcallister...sign him up for a few games of 7's then get him in at 12 in the 6n.
Now i know its not quite that simple....but would you be happy with that scenario....because thats EXACTLY what could happen.

 

[Big Ewis]

I've agreed the snowball effect can only be a disaster, and for that alone the Armitage thing is very dangerous.

And I only feel the Armitage operation is "okay" because he's so connected to France; that's what I meant when I said "he's unique"; although I see exactly what you're saying about the future repercussions of the Armitage operation if it does happen...
And hands off Luke Mcallister you dirty Englishman, he's French now, and Toulouse need him !!

 

[Geordie]

Sorry yes...Luke could be running out for Les Bleu next 6n

In fact just think of the team France could put out soon....

Ill be watching the 7's Series with interest this year.

 

[Big Ewis]

actually, tbh, it's a blessing France still is a Top 3 deepest Rugby nation with real local talent still. Just imagine if, for some reason, we just didn't have quality real French players, just, a terrible generation or something, big disinterest from the French youth...we'd be rockin' Brock James, Kockott, Craig Burden and co. without a second thought !
Money money money money...

 

[Big Ewis]

Oh and btw I totally disagree with everybody that's been said by..me earlier. I must have been half asleep when I wrote all that, I'm a somnambulist. I'll sometimes wake up to absolutely mind-boggling brilliance all typed up in the comment box on TRF some nights, and then post it. So all those flashes of immeasurably superior intelligence that you all behold in awe in your bedrooms from me every 2 or 3 posts (really it's more frequent, but I'm just generally a super humble person, with many other qualities also), I take no credit from (well, just a bit...), it's my subconscious not me.
I guess I'm just a little bit biased here; I mean it's obvious why; you know, because Steffon Armitage is French, and well, because of my unparallallalleled patriotism, it means a lot to me that i cry during the Marseillaise mayonnaise and well, Armitage is like a brother to me. Well that isn't it either, I got so emotional while writing this up I lost the Plotinus was a Latin philosopher who actually describes physically the appearance of the soul in one of his treatises after which I had a hard time taking him seriously; he says it's round-shaped, but Steffon Armitage has an enormous heart, not just athletic ability, and that's why we can all agree he should take a dive in his next fight.
.. .. ....just woke up, what's happening, this thread again ?!! Guys, like, seriously...okay, okay, Steffon Armitage is English and should drink tea with mint and strawberries (or wtvr the hell you English do to yourselves...) and not super concentrated dark coffee..

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Oh and btw I totally disagree with everybody

Well you can suck me off then!

 

[Big Ewis]

I'm an angry little man !!!

Dunno what to tell you there Olyy...ever heard of V8, the energy vegetable concentrate juice ? Apparently it's mildly good for your healt...ahhh this isn't helping...

 

[ratsapprentice]

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"There is a regulations committee that will look at all applications for transfer and they will look to see if it's for bona fide Sevens reasons," Gosper told the Press Association. "There is a safety net and any transfer will have to be passed by the committee. They will act according to the spirit of the law.
"For example, if we have huge props applying for a career in sevens, then we'll smell a rat. That's an obvious example and there will be some cases that are in a grey area, but we want to ensure the integrity of the regulation and the spirit behind it is upheld.
"Any obvious abuses that go counter to that spirit of why we're doing this will be caught in the regulations committee net. But players will move in both codes by coming into the sevens game – that will happen."

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[TRF_Olyy]

I could see Armitage getting past that, considering he's played Sevens in the past.
Hopefully they take into account that he's clearly not doing it for sevens reasons.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I think that's the point - they haven't just added in a clause or amended the rules.

They've put in something that will allow them to basically say "look pal, this is fishy, we aren't allowing it".

 

[Patchey]

I think that's the point - they haven't just added in a clause or amended the rules.

They've put in something that will allow them to basically say "look pal, this is fishy, we aren't allowing it".

I've always thought a careful, subjective approach to eligibility would improve matters but not in this regard. Switching allegiance once you've had a test cap is wrong and anything other than a cast iron clause or amendment saying so is a cop out by the IRB or whatever they're now called. Bleugh.

 

[ratsapprentice]

That's exactly what this is coming in to stop!

 

[Patchey]

That's exactly what this is coming in to stop!

Que?


I think maybe I confused two issues.

Players should not be able to switch allegiances once they have a test cap. Ever. There is no need for a subjective approach to this.

Other issues around eligibility however, should be more fluid IMO and taken on a case by case basis.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Ah... don't worry, brain fart from me.

 

[Big Ewis]

oh, this thread again...well, sure hope it happens !...

 

[Big Ewis]

For your information - and really just for your information, I'm NOT using this as argument - I've just watched a Toulon interview/episode with the Armitages. The interviewer asks Steffon if Lancaster and PSA called him up for the RWC, who he'd pick, and he insists he can't answer, obviously he doesn't want to offend people giving an answer publicly.
The interviewer then goes to Delon and tells him about asking his brother Steffon that question, to which Delon replies, I translate: "well he's between both, but for me, if I'd 'only' 5 caps for England, if I were him...he's been playing for years here in France, he likes it here, he's stayed longer in France than in England..."

For the (lucky) people who speak French, just in case and to name my source:



Also for anybody's curiosity, Steffon does have an English accent when he speaks French, while his brother Delon sounds very...exotic, island-oriented.

The quick-fire question section is HILARIOUS if you understand at a point they ask the Toulon guys if they've ever seen Wilko wasted. Some say "no never ! he's perfect, that would never happen" and others say "ohhh yes I have !" and they say he gets really melo and starts hugging ppl and all hhahaha, what a sweetheart ! Very, very positive guy...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

For your information - and really just for your information, I'm NOT using this as argument - I've just watched a Toulon interview/episode with the Armitages. The interviewer asks Steffon if Lancaster and PSA called him up for the RWC, who he'd pick, and he insists he can't answer, obviously he doesn't want to offend people giving an answer publicly.

Which is why he should be allowed to play for France.
If he wants to play for France then he should be proud of how "French" he is and be singing from the rooftops how he wants to represent "his" country.
He's not because he knows he's English, and this whole thing is b0ll0cks.