Spring Tour: South Africa v England -2nd Test. (16/06/2012 15:00GMT)

[RedruthRFC]

Bit late to this thread, but here goes!

I don't find "pom" remotely offensive / racist. Knowing the history of it, it makes me chuckle that the Aussie want to use a constant reminder that part of the foundation of their country was English rejects to refer to us. By extension, there appears to be a fair bit of rivalry / contempt between Oz and SA / NZ, so it also amuses me when saffers / kiwis choose to borrow the Aussies' phrase for us.

Re: Botha, he was brought in to the Six Nations to do Lawes' job, something he did reasonably effectively, hence his current position as a starter. This job has proved tougher to do against the South Africans, hence the criticism which I agree with - we have been missing an "enforcer" style second row. Also agree with most of the thoughts about Parling, he has played the "silent assassin" role very well.

I'm not sure what the answer is at 8. Morgan doesn't look match sharp (although maybe SA deserve credit for keeping him out of the game), so maybe the answer for the last test is starting with Waldrom with Morgan coming off the bench. Going forward, Waldrom can only be seen as a stop gap and the way it stands at the moment, I hope to hell that Morgan gets back on top of his game PDQ!

Strange thing to say about a 28 year old flanker, but does Johnstone need to be taught to scrummage? I'm not sure anyone has mentioned it, but he gave away a penalty in the first test handling the ball in the scrum rather than putting his boot on it. He could hide behind the law book in this instance, but given the choice of sticking my boot out or conceding a try if the referee / TJ gets it wrong, I know which I would go for.

Lastly, well done to South Africa, I hope you field a strong side for the last test and don't see why you shouldn't. You're bedding in a few youngsters, so why not give the side another 80 minutes to gel together?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Some of the better players this series out injured on both sides; Alberts, J Kruger, Robshaw, Lambie, Oosthuizen and Youngs have all had some outstanding moments. And then Frans Steyn is getting married... wow, we are missing 5 of our best. At least it'll be a good test of depth.

Considering our squad what i'd like to see for the 3rd test from SA

1 Mtawarira - no-brainer with Oosthuizen injured and us moving on from Steenkamp
2 Du Plessis - colossus
3 Du Plessis - has been in better form than for ages past and the only other tightheads that could push him for his spot aren't in the squad; Cilliers and Mujati
4 Etzebeth - has shown glimpses of S15 form in the 2nd test, hopefully he continues to grow in stature with the exposure
5 ? - with Kruger and Bekker out.... Anton Bresler? Emergency call to Danie Rossouw? Play a loosie out of position? Who? Spies maybe? Take a chance on a bolter- Quinn Roux and PS du Toit are young and untested but both have done it at age group... Flip is the only other lock but our line-out has already not been a shining light and our scrum looked weak with him
in an unfamiliar position. I guess I'll settle on Spies for my picks. He is very capable in the line-outs.
6 Keegan Daniel - for until Alberts or Burger is fit
7 Jaques Potgieter - has the abrasiveness that Alberts brought and and that has proven so successful thus far
8 Marcell Coetzee
9 Hougaard - needs the test experience at 9 to develop his game further
10 Steyn - just because Lambie and Goosen are both injured and its pointless to change overly much without a reason
11 Bjorn Basson - because Habana is breaking himself and we need him for the S15 again LOL
12 Jean de Villiers
13 ..... call up De Jongh FFS!!!!!!!; I just can't get myself to call on Olivier.
14 JP Petersen - I'd keep him at 14; having played 13 all year isn't good for him IMO.
15 Joe Pietersen


16 Adriaan Strauss
17 Werner Kruger - no one else in the squad. I'd call up Pat Cilliers but oh, well. Does anyone know if Greyling has tighthead experience?
18 Flip vand er Merwe
19 Joshua Strauss- just to give some fresh faces a go and add hunger and intensity to a team that just might think they have it in the bag beforehand
20 Ruan Pienaar
21 Elton Jantjies
22 Gio Aplon

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Robshaw is out for the last test.

All hope lost?

http://www.rfu.com/News/2012/June/NewsArticles/180612_Robshaw_Out.aspx

looks that way. We won't know for sure though until we saw Meyer's squad - if he's going to rotate we may stand more chance.

As for us, Haskell is guaranteed to feature, and likely to start. With injuries, we're left with the following

Johnson(6), Gibson(6), Dowson(6+8), Haskell(6+7+8), Fearns(6+7+8), Waldrom(8), Morgan(8)

I think we should try:
6. Dowson
7. Haskell
8. Waldrom/Morgan

18. Johnson

BUT, bearing in mind that gives us no extra 7 cover, this is also possible:

6: Haskell
7: Fearns
8: Waldrom/Morgan

18: Dowson

That way we arguably have at least two options for each possible.

 

[Teh Mite]

So, Hartley as skipper. Pleasingly, that will annoy sky sports and the part-time rugby fans in equal measure.

 

[Patchey]

I think Dowson will be in over Fearns simply based on the fact that he has been solid for England at test level and Lancaster likes him.

 

[Sker]

RedRuthRFC

What about us referring to Englishmen living in SA as souties?

 

[Big Ewis]

Pieterson was fantastic !
He did that stupid swan dive on that last penetration for the try, Youngs was right there (!!!!); could've actually countered it lol, what a dumbass !! The camera tried to conceal it, but he pushed him off after the play lol...(Pieterson did).

Looooove watchin you crazy Boks !
And congrats again to Lancaster, he seems to be one solid value for England ! It's like they've never had a transition between the Wilko/Moody days and now...

 

[TRF_heineken]

So good news from the Bok camp is that so far only Pat Lambie and Frans Steyn are definitely out for the 3rd test.

Juandre Kruger was cleared by the scans and trained all day with the team, not showing any pain. Willem Alberts some Medial ligament strain, but they won't do anything until Wednesday with him.

Joe Pietersen trained as fullback ahead of Aplon, which gives me the idea that if Morne Steyn's kicking boots are still absent, we'll at least have back-up in the starting line up...

@Stormer2010, regarding Dean Greyling - Yes he can play tight head... He used to play tight head in High School and played a couple of games when he started out in the Vodacom Cup... That being said, Werner Kruger has shown that he can play both Loose head and tight head, so why deviate from it?

Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk

 

[Saintjay]

England team to face Northern Baa Baa's.

Nick Abendanon (Bath Rugby); Christian Wade (London Wasps), Anthony Allen (Leicester Tigers), Jordan Turner-Hall (Harlequins), Ugo Monye (Harlequins); Charlie Hodgson (Saracens), Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints); Matt Mullan (Worcester Warriors), Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers), Paul Doran Jones (Northampton Saints), Graham Kitchener (Leicester Tigers), George Robson (capt, Harlequins), Jamie Gibson (London Irish), Carl Fearns (Bath Rugby), Ben Morgan (Scarlets).


Replacements: Joe Gray (Harlequins), Rupert Harden (Gloucester Rugby), Mouritz Botha, (Saracens), James Haskell (Otago Highlanders), Karl Dickson (Harlequins), David Strettle (Saracens), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby).

 

[RedruthRFC]

RedRuthRFC

What about us referring to Englishmen living in SA as souties?

Can't say as I'd heard of the term, and Google doesn't enlighten me that much (I'm hoping Wikipedia's bland description is accurate)! I did have a bit of banter with Barry Hilton in Sibaya once, he accused me of being a typical Englishman who turns up with 1,000R and stays for a year, but didn't call me a soutie!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Pieterson was fantastic !
He did that stupid swan dive on that last penetration for the try, Youngs was right there (!!!!); could've actually countered it lol, what a dumbass !! The camera tried to conceal it, but he pushed him off after the play lol...(Pieterson did).

Looooove watchin you crazy Boks !
And congrats again to Lancaster, he seems to be one solid value for England ! It's like they've never had a transition between the Wilko/Moody days and now...

I had a good cringe at that dive as well and was very relieved he didn't manage to botch it at the end. Hopefully Meyer told him off afterward and he won't do it again but it just goes to show the delight of the player, particularly after a quiet 1st test.

So good news from the Bok camp is that so far only Pat Lambie and Frans Steyn are definitely out for the 3rd test.

Juandre Kruger was cleared by the scans and trained all day with the team, not showing any pain. Willem Alberts some Medial ligament strain, but they won't do anything until Wednesday with him.

Joe Pietersen trained as fullback ahead of Aplon, which gives me the idea that if Morne Steyn's kicking boots are still absent, we'll at least have back-up in the starting line up...

@Stormer2010, regarding Dean Greyling - Yes he can play tight head... He used to play tight head in High School and played a couple of games when he started out in the Vodacom Cup... That being said, Werner Kruger has shown that he can play both Loose head and tight head, so why deviate from it?

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Over the moon to have heard J Kruger and Alberts are well but that said, if Alberts has ANY lingering troubles I hope they don't play him and rather give Potgieter a go. He was the form SA loosie in the S15 for my money.

Also glad Pietersen is seen ahead of Aplon at 15. Aplon would be most dangerous with 30m to go in any case. I can't see Meyer stripping M Steyn of the kicking duties. I wonder how much of the decisionmaking is left to JdV in that regard and how much is Meyer's instructions. In the other tests we had options in Lambie, F Steyn and Pienaar but stuck to M Steyn. Can't see the trend changing and hope M Steyn has practiced and regains his rythm/confidence as we threw away about 20-25 points in 2 tests now due to missing kicks.

Regarding W Kruger, I'll be interested to see how he goes. Not sure to what extent other factors might have come into play but we were thoroughly dominated in the scrum at the end there.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I had a good cringe at that dive as well and was very relieved he didn't manage to botch it at the end. Hopefully Meyer told him off afterward and he won't do it again but it just goes to show the delight of the player, particularly after a quiet 1st test.



Over the moon to have heard J Kruger and Alberts are well but that said, if Alberts has ANY lingering troubles I hope they don't play him and rather give Potgieter a go. He was the form SA loosie in the S15 for my money.

Also glad Pietersen is seen ahead of Aplon at 15. Aplon would be most dangerous with 30m to go in any case. I can't see Meyer stripping M Steyn of the kicking duties. I wonder how much of the decisionmaking is left to JdV in that regard and how much is Meyer's instructions. In the other tests we had options in Lambie, F Steyn and Pienaar but stuck to M Steyn. Can't see the trend changing and hope M Steyn has practiced and regains his rythm/confidence as we threw away about 20-25 points in 2 tests now due to missing kicks.

Regarding W Kruger, I'll be interested to see how he goes. Not sure to what extent other factors might have come into play but we were thoroughly dominated in the scrum at the end there.

Yes but that wasn't Werner Kruger's fault (alone). the ref had twice spoken to Corbisiero, the one time you could clearly hear him say "I can't do that if you don't attempt to bind". and also Juandre Kruger went off, leaving us with 2 "4-locks" and Bismarck was also subbed. While I really like Strauss in a running mode, his scrummaging hasn't been part of his arsenal.

Interesting news conference last night on Blitz - Where the Boks defence coach said that Wynand Olivier has so far been the best defender in the 2 tests for the backs... How he got that is any man's guess. But it sounds like Meisiekind is a shoe-in for the 12 jersey (yes, my fellow Saffas, even as a Bulls supporter, I'll cringe along with you for that one).

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Yes but that wasn't Werner Kruger's fault (alone). the ref had twice spoken to Corbisiero, the one time you could clearly hear him say "I can't do that if you don't attempt to bind". and also Juandre Kruger went off, leaving us with 2 "4-locks" and Bismarck was also subbed. While I really like Strauss in a running mode, his scrummaging hasn't been part of his arsenal.

Interesting news conference last night on Blitz - Where the Boks defence coach said that Wynand Olivier has so far been the best defender in the 2 tests for the backs... How he got that is any man's guess. But it sounds like Meisiekind is a shoe-in for the 12 jersey (yes, my fellow Saffas, even as a Bulls supporter, I'll cringe along with you for that one).

I know and that's why I would like to see what Kruger can do with the same chances as Jannie. Another change was Daniel coming in for Alberts. Might also have contributed to a smallish loss of power in the scrum.

I hope Meisiekind has a good game but I wouldn't want him to become a regular fixture at 12 (or 22 for that matter).

 

[mstar]

I think Haskell for England has to come in. I am not convinced with Dowson BUT Lancaster likes him.
I like to know if Barrit come in as well, maybe as a sub, as we need a solid defence to stabalise from kick-off then bring on JJ to open up the Boks.

One thing we have to remember guys is that Lancaster has the privilege of watching the players train, he knows their game inside out, he knows their fitness levels, strength level etc etc. So if he picks someone he has all that factored in. We only see the players play and there is so many variables in the game that cloud our judgement (e.g JJ didnt do any runs to us it seem he was a failure BUT the game and Boks didnt allow him to but the ability is there).

 

[Peat]

Robshaw is out for the last test.

All hope lost?

http://www.rfu.com/News/2012/June/NewsArticles/180612_Robshaw_Out.aspx

What hope?

But yeah, that's gone.

Honestly not sure what to do with the back-row. I want Haskell in, but not at 8. But I want two guys that hit rucks, so that's not really possible with TtTE/Morgan. I'd like Gibson to play 7, but I can tell there's not a way in hell that'll happen. Which makes Dowson/Johnson the best combination, except they're blatantly just giving away too much in size and power.

It's all a clusterf**k. Still, I suppose most teams begin to feel that way when for various reasons their 5 best back-rowers aren't available.

 

[Gena_ZA]

I would love to see Potgieter play for the Boks, we haven't had a player in this mould since Juan Smith
Whatever happened when Werner Kruger came on would have been analysed and corrected by the Bok management team, in my opinion it was a set of circumstances and they will learn form it

I for one are not fussed by Wynand Olivier at 12, he last played his best rugga when Heyneke Meyer was involved at the Bulls, think and hope he will cope
Hoping to see little Jo at 15 and later on Aplon

 

[peanuts40]

Is it weird I would rather start Oliver than bench him? He is the worst impact player in the history of the game....

 

[TRF_heineken]

Is it weird I would rather start Oliver than bench him? He is the worst impact player in the history of the game....

I feel exactly the same! he's like a marathon athlete, not a sprinter...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Is it weird I would rather start Oliver than bench him? He is the worst impact player in the history of the game....

Nope. He is a solid enough player but brings nothing off of the bench. I totally agree with your sentiments. With him there I can just see England throwing Tuilagi at him all night.. with little consequence as I rate him as a defender but I'd have JdV organize the whole.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Nope. He is a solid enough player but brings nothing off of the bench. I totally agree with your sentiments. With him there I can just see England throwing Tuilagi at him all night.. with little consequence as I rate him as a defender but I'd have JdV organize the whole.

Now that you mention Tuilagi, was he even on the pitch Saturday?? that had to be one of his quietest games ever...