Spring Tour:New Zealand vs Ireland - 1st Test. (09/06/2012, 08:35 GMT)

[smartcooky]

NH refs do ping that a lot as well, maybe they were just really quick on the ball? More often than not it was the first man in rather than the tackler winning the penalty, so maybe Ireland were just going better at supporting the tackler, rather than leaving him to do the work.

I agree. Shag alluded to that in the after match interview. Said his players were a bit guilty of ball-watching at the breakdown.

I thought Nigel Owens had a pretty good game. The only obvious errors I saw were...

1. Approx 32:40 - he penalised an AB for side entry at the tackle, except, it wasn't a tackle, it was a Law 14 situation (Ball on the ground - No tackle).

2. Approx 40:00 - The Irish turned over the ball at tackle on their own line. Interesting how they were able to do that when there were no Irish players on their feet!

3. Earlier in the first half, an Irish player went to ground to gather a loose ball (Law 14 situation similar to the one I mentioned above). Conrad Smith fell on top of him and should have been penalised for doing so.

4. There were also two penalties given against the Irish in the second half for holding back the support player. The second one should have earned a yellow card IMO, a repeated wilful act of foul play.

 

[Feicarsinn]

On a more positive note, I thought Fitzpatrick was alright.

 

[admartian]

Great game, and Ireland unlucky for a team that didn't even play poorly. The only thing poor form them I'd say is their un-imaginative attack. They seem to stare at players like Dagg and Carter.

My only real gripe is the obvious cheating - holding a player back. Just un-necessary. Shows no faith in your own defence, or the recovery of your team-mate.

Apart from that, I think everyone in the ABs had a decent to good game save SBW who ran like a turd, poor decisions, bad handling and continues to show NO PROGRESs in regards to hisrugby (or probably general life) IQ. Apart from 1 or 2 offloads, he's really not useful for much apart from sheer physical intimidation.

And if we wanted that, shouldn't we just have MMA fighter Mark Hunt at 12?

But I digress, and I';m sure all the SBW come-lappers will have my head! :lol:


Otherwise, I look forward to a resolved Irish team next week.


And what a game by Savea, Dagg, Carter, and great game from Smith, refreshing to see speed coming from the ruck.

 

[big ginger 8]

On a more positive note, I thought Fitzpatrick was alright.

Yeah especially as he was against Woodcock he even managed to get on top in one or two scrums.

 

[ret]

Great game, and Ireland unlucky for a team that didn't even play poorly. The only thing poor form them I'd say is their un-imaginative attack. They seem to stare at players like Dagg and Carter.

My only real gripe is the obvious cheating - holding a player back. Just un-necessary. Shows no faith in your own defence, or the recovery of your team-mate.

Apart from that, I think everyone in the ABs had a decent to good game save SBW who ran like a turd, poor decisions, bad handling and continues to show NO PROGRESs in regards to hisrugby (or probably general life) IQ. Apart from 1 or 2 offloads, he's really not useful for much apart from sheer physical intimidation.

And if we wanted that, shouldn't we just have MMA fighter Mark Hunt at 12?

But I digress, and I';m sure all the SBW come-lappers will have my head! :lol:


Otherwise, I look forward to a resolved Irish team next week.


And what a game by Savea, Dagg, Carter, and great game from Smith, refreshing to see speed coming from the ruck.

There may be Sonny-Bill "come lappers" but there are also people who simply appreciate his skill and appetite for work. Solid effort all-round from him tonight.

 

[psychic duck]

On a more positive note, I thought Fitzpatrick was alright.

shame from Ireland's point of view that he won't start much next season

luckily for him, the IRFU are addressing this issue over the next couple of seasons by getting rid of some foreigners from the provinces

 

[Feicarsinn]

shame from Ireland's point of view that he won't start much next season

luckily for him, the IRFU are addressing this issue over the next couple of seasons by getting rid of some foreigners from the provinces

In fairness, Fitzpatrick's development has been stalled by a number of injuries as opposed to being held back by foreigners. Should he be fit for all of next season he'll get enough games. A team competing domestically and continentally needs more than one tighthead.

 

[Amiga500]

I feel a bit for Conor Murray at this stage. He clearly isn't good enough at this level.

+1

Should be Reddan + Sexton as first choice pairing.

Marshall is a similar kind of player to Reddan, so perhaps not the best to spring from the bench if you want to change things - however, if quick off the base is the way you want your teams to play regardless of personnel, then Murray should be dropped.

 

[coonor]

Hard to know what to take out of that game but some key points are:
- Murray is certainly not good enough to play a style that fits running, fast rugby which in reality is what we need to play
- Our kicking game (apart from Sexton) was poor. It was way to deep with no chase and simply gave NZ the opportunity to run back. It is one of the main reasons why we lost
- if we didn't already we should now know that you simply cannot keep defending against the AB, you have to keep possession.
-Loughney can't scrummage. Fitzpatrick can.
- Our breakdown game is still competetive
- kidney did not use his subs well enough at all, surprise, surprise

 

[Peat]

In fairness, Fitzpatrick's development has been stalled by a number of injuries as opposed to being held back by foreigners. Should he be fit for all of next season he'll get enough games. A team competing domestically and continentally needs more than one tighthead.

Bit of both. But he wouldn't be the player he is without Botha, and if he could keep fit we mightn't have needed Afoa.

 

[killer08]

 

[profitius]

******** , I'd put a ridiculous sum of money on Ireland being stuffed by Leinster...Know why ? Joe Schmidt,

So would I. They're a 10 - 15pts better team IMO.

 

[coonor]

Anyone else a little disappointed by Touhy? Shame Toner isn't touring as DOC just isn't an option.

 

[nickdnz]

Really enjoyed this game. Several things I'll say:

1. Julian Savea is awesome. Did really well this game, extremely good debut.
2. Steve Hansen and his coaching staff are very poor when it comes to substitutions, taking Julian Savea off to put Aaron Cruden at inside centre and Sonny Bill Williams on the wing is just so stupid. Cruden is a very good flyhalf so should get a run there rather than putting two players out of position.
3. Aaron Smith was quality. Great passing and skills. Thought his decisions making was occasionally wrong, like keeping it in the forwards, but much better than Weepu.
4. Ali Williams still sucks.
5. I have a huge amount of respect for McCaw, but it's time we start looking for a replacement. Daniel Carter still is very sharp and the best 10 in the world, but Richie McCaw looked very old out there and his handling has been poor all season. He's a legend, but he doesn't look like he's got the speed to be a great openside anymore so he needs to look at improving his ball running and making the move to blindside.
6. Sonny Bill Williams made a lot of handling errors, but to be honest he hit the line at pace which is what I want. Think he needs to play with more ball security but he didn't do too poorly in my opinion. He was at least on the right track, even if he messed up a bit. Just don't like him on wing.
7. Zac Guildford is so overrated and Ben Smith I still don't think is quick enough for wing.
8. Carter, Read, Dagg and Savea had blinders.
9. Nigel Owens was very lenient towards Ireland. They infringed ALOT, like so many breakdowns it wasn't funny. If we didn't win by a comfortable margin I'd have been very, very annoyed.
10. If Adam Thomson does the "You Can't See Me" hand wave again, I'm going to hurt him somehow.

 

[Peat]

Anyone else a little disappointed by Touhy? Shame Toner isn't touring as DOC just isn't an option.

Yeah, Tuohy was pretty anonymous tbh. Deserves another go though.

 

[coonor]

I agree Aaron Smith was brilliant, exactly what you want from a scrum half. I was quite underwhelmed by SBW, he was very much contained by BOD and didn't pose any attacking threat other than hard running which at times was effective but mostly played into BOD's hands, since he ran so upright looking for the offload it was easier for BOD, Heaslip and co to hold him up and slow the ball down. I also agree McCaw looked off pace. Tbh in most teams he would be fine but the ABs play so fast that it seemed that he was struggling to keep up.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Right, let's see what we've learned from that farce then:

• We need a new head coach. Nothing new admittedly, but Kidney's instance on playing an outdated style of rugby that doesn't suit his players is holding us back majorly. We wouldn't have won today anyway, but we're not going to be competitive with him at the helm. Sack the whole management team, bring in a head coach who knows his stuff and a decent backs coach.
• Ferg ain't up to it at this level. He's a good man for Leinster, but an international player he isn't. Should only be included in the future if were absolutely crocked.
• Zebo is a few years away yet. He's got a lot of wrinkles to iron out in his game. Work on his tackling, stop carrying the ball under one arm, so on. Gilroy probably would have been a better bet for this tour. Extra season under his belt, more rounded player.
• We need to find an inside centre from somewhere. For now let's stick Drico in there and put Cave outside him. Should be solid, if no spectacular.
• Fitzpatrick can scrummage, massive plus. Loughney is still useless.
• Sean O'Brien is an international quality 7. No complaints about his work at the breakdown today.
• Ryan, Heaslip and Healy are our best forwards at the moment. They all had good games in a beaten team. O'Mahony is perhaps not ready yet and Tuohy was quiet.
• Rog must shove off. The man is finished at all but Rabo level. Ireland should plow ahead with Sexton and Madigan while Munster have Keatley and Hanrahan.
• Murray needs a serious look at his game. His passing isn't accurate enough and is well too slow.

Here's what I'd pick for next week. We've learned a bit now, perhaps it's time for an exercise in damage limitation.

Kearney, Earls, Cave, O'Driscoll, Trimble, Sexton, Reddan, Heaslip, O'Brien, O'Mahony, Ryan, Tuohy, Fitzpatrick, Best, Healy.

 

[psychic duck]

Right, let's see what we've learned from that farce then:

• We need a new head coach. Nothing new admittedly, but Kidney's instance on playing an outdated style of rugby that doesn't suit his players is holding us back majorly. We wouldn't have won today anyway, but we're not going to be competitive with him at the helm. Sack the whole management team, bring in a head coach who knows his stuff and a decent backs coach.
• Ferg ain't up to it at this level. He's a good man for Leinster, but an international player he isn't. Should only be included in the future if were absolutely crocked.
• Zebo is a few years away yet. He's got a lot of wrinkles to iron out in his game. Work on his tackling, stop carrying the ball under one arm, so on. Gilroy probably would have been a better bet for this tour. Extra season under his belt, more rounded player.
• We need to find an inside centre from somewhere. For now let's stick Drico in there and put Cave outside him. Should be solid, if no spectacular.
• Fitzpatrick can scrummage, massive plus. Loughney is still useless.
• Sean O'Brien is an international quality 7. No complaints about his work at the breakdown today.
• Ryan, Heaslip and Healy are our best forwards at the moment. They all had good games in a beaten team. O'Mahony is perhaps not ready yet and Tuohy was quiet.
• Rog must shove off. The man is finished at all but Rabo level. Ireland should plow ahead with Sexton and Madigan while Munster have Keatley and Hanrahan.
• Murray needs a serious look at his game. His passing isn't accurate enough and is well too slow.

Here's what I'd pick for next week. We've learned a bit now, perhaps it's time for an exercise in damage limitation.

Kearney, Earls, Cave, O'Driscoll, Trimble, Sexton, Reddan, Heaslip, O'Brien, O'Mahony, Ryan, Tuohy, Fitzpatrick, Best, Healy.

agree with every single bit of that

 

[big ginger 8]

Right, let's see what we've learned from that farce then:

• We need a new head coach. Nothing new admittedly, but Kidney's instance on playing an outdated style of rugby that doesn't suit his players is holding us back majorly. We wouldn't have won today anyway, but we're not going to be competitive with him at the helm. Sack the whole management team, bring in a head coach who knows his stuff and a decent backs coach.
• Ferg ain't up to it at this level. He's a good man for Leinster, but an international player he isn't. Should only be included in the future if were absolutely crocked.
• Zebo is a few years away yet. He's got a lot of wrinkles to iron out in his game. Work on his tackling, stop carrying the ball under one arm, so on. Gilroy probably would have been a better bet for this tour. Extra season under his belt, more rounded player.
• We need to find an inside centre from somewhere. For now let's stick Drico in there and put Cave outside him. Should be solid, if no spectacular.
• Fitzpatrick can scrummage, massive plus. Loughney is still useless.
• Sean O'Brien is an international quality 7. No complaints about his work at the breakdown today.
• Ryan, Heaslip and Healy are our best forwards at the moment. They all had good games in a beaten team. O'Mahony is perhaps not ready yet and Tuohy was quiet.
• Rog must shove off. The man is finished at all but Rabo level. Ireland should plow ahead with Sexton and Madigan while Munster have Keatley and Hanrahan.
• Murray needs a serious look at his game. His passing isn't accurate enough and is well too slow.

Here's what I'd pick for next week. We've learned a bit now, perhaps it's time for an exercise in damage limitation.

Kearney, Earls, Cave, O'Driscoll, Trimble, Sexton, Reddan, Heaslip, O'Brien, O'Mahony, Ryan, Tuohy, Fitzpatrick, Best, Healy.

Agreed I don't know about sacking the whole coaching staff Feek's done brilliantly with the scrum and Kiss is very good when concentrating on defense. However if we got a new coach and he felt the need to shake it all up that's fine.

I'd pick the same team with one minor change. Trimble on the right, he's much better there and more able to cope with Savea's physicality. Also Ross may be fit though he has to be reassessed this week and now brace yourself Fitzpatrick and Healy are both possible doubts. Healy looked to be in some pain over his shoulder and Fitzpatrick may have done his hamstring. Which knowing Kidney would mean Loughney and Archer with probably Buckley making his comeback or because he betrayed Munster some other dirt tracking Munster prop. That or Hayes coming out of retirement.

 

[Peat]

Happy as I am to hype up Ulster players, I'm not sure Gilroy and Cave would have made a great deal of difference. I think they are better defensive players, but that doesn't matter in a shambles of a defence where everyone seems unsure of where everyone else should be - as Cave did when he came on at the end (admittedly once things had really gone). That match showed why your Backs coach and Defence coach are probably best separate.