Spring Tour:New Zealand vs Ireland - 1st Test. (09/06/2012, 08:35 GMT)

[Feicarsinn]

Agreed I don't know about sacking the whole coaching staff Feek's done brilliantly with the scrum and Kiss is very good when concentrating on defense. However if we got a new coach and he felt the need to shake it all up that's fine.

I'd pick the same team with one minor change. Trimble on the right, he's much better there and more able to cope with Savea's physicality. Also Ross may be fit though he has to be reassessed this week and now brace yourself Fitzpatrick and Healy are both possible doubts. Healy looked to be in some pain over his shoulder and Fitzpatrick may have done his hamstring. Which knowing Kidney would mean Loughney and Archer with probably Buckley making his comeback or because he betrayed Munster some other dirt tracking Munster prop. That or Hayes coming out of retirement.

Did you watch the same match as me? Our defence of the set piece was pathetic. Anyway, a new coach should get to bring in his own team.

 

[big ginger 8]

Did you watch the same match as me? Our defence of the set piece was pathetic. Anyway, a new coach should get to bring in his own team.

Sorry should have said on defense alone. Our defense was one of the best before he joined the two.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I didn't see the game but the scoreline suggests something we already knew - Ireland are a far weaker team without Ross, O'Connell, Ferris and Bowe. From what I'm reading, Murray was shocking but every right minded pundit already knew Reddan is a better scrum half.

If Fitzpatrick went well at prop, that's great news. Once 23 man squads are introduced, he becomes a live bench option behind Ross. If Healy is out next week, I'd call Wilkinson straight into the team and keep Loughney well away from the starting lineup.

I disagree completely with the assertion that this is now about damage limitation. What do we learn from that? Going back to D'arcy, O'Callaghan et al would be a retrograde step. I'd much rather Zebo, Cave, McFadden and Tuohy were persisted with. The only exception is Murray who's consistently showed he's not up to it yet.

 

[HB Scot]

Ireland showed nothing really the gulf between these two teams was night and day. If the second holding back had been dealth with correctlyand Ireland reduced to 14 the score line could have been in the 50's. Just can't see the Irish offering anything better next week, but the AB's will imprive and possibly change SWB for Nonu.

 

[Feicarsinn]

I didn't see the game but the scoreline suggests something we already knew - Ireland are a far weaker team without Ross, O'Connell, Ferris and Bowe. From what I'm reading, Murray was shocking but every right minded pundit already knew Reddan is a better scrum half.

If Fitzpatrick went well at prop, that's great news. Once 23 man squads are introduced, he becomes a live bench option behind Ross. If Healy is out next week, I'd call Wilkinson straight into the team and keep Loughney well away from the starting lineup.

I disagree completely with the assertion that this is now about damage limitation. What do we learn from that? Going back to D'arcy, O'Callaghan et al would be a retrograde step. I'd much rather Zebo, Cave, McFadden and Tuohy were persisted with. The only exception is Murray who's consistently showed he's not up to it yet.

Perhaps my damage limitation comment was misunderstood. I feel we've got to pick our strongest team at this point. That means Trimble, Reddan, Cave ahead of Zebo, Murray and McFadden.

 

[lucky number 7]

Ireland showed nothing really the gulf between these two teams was night and day. If the second holding back had been dealth with correctlyand Ireland reduced to 14 the score line could have been in the 50's. Just can't see the Irish offering anything better next week, but the AB's will imprive and possibly change SWB for Nonu.

You've said this exact same thing a few times in this thread and got no reaction...confirming a troll status

Edit: My apologies , looked back and it was not you.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Perhaps my damage limitation comment was misunderstood. I feel we've got to pick our strongest team at this point. That means Trimble, Reddan, Cave ahead of Zebo, Murray and McFadden.

Can't disagree with that. I'd stick with Zebo ahead of Trimble though. Trimble has been very average since the turn of the year. Cave definitely deserves a shot.

 

[HB Scot]

Yes and you guys keep thinking that the problem lies with the coaching staff, but the reality is that its more than just the coach and gameplan that was off. Man for man they were just outclassed. Suppose seeing these guys turn it on week in week out in the Celtic League and HC then fall woefully short at test levelmust be frustrating.

 

[Saintjay]

Just wondering if B.O.D is intending to play on till the next RWC. If not who would be looking at replacing him?. He will be what 36 by the next RWC and for me I tend to think that he will retire from international rugby prior to then. Even prehaps after this tour to give another player a shot, I don't know.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

If not who would be looking at replacing him?

Darren Cave.

 

[osullie6]

Just wondering if B.O.D is intending to play on till the next RWC. If not who would be looking at replacing him?. He will be what 36 by the next RWC and for me I tend to think that he will retire from international rugby prior to then. Even prehaps after this tour to give another player a shot, I don't know.

I'd have imagined he was aiming for next years Lions tour, I think he'd probably finish at international level then. I couldn't see him still being able to carry on till 36.

At the moment the replacements are Cave and Earls. Cave is better but Kidney favours Earls.

.

 

[big ginger 8]

Just wondering if B.O.D is intending to play on till the next RWC. If not who would be looking at replacing him?. He will be what 36 by the next RWC and for me I tend to think that he will retire from international rugby prior to then. Even prehaps after this tour to give another player a shot, I don't know.

I wouldn't be surprised if he stays on. I saw an interview this morning where he said it was the last thing on his mind. He's said before he'd stay around at least until the Lions and recently has being suggesting that he could play up until the WC. Which I don't mind if he keeps the good form he's come back with. He'd be good to have around the squad at least. Cave is the heir apparent and is someone I think would start for a lot of international teams but is unlucky to be behind BO'D.

 

[Saintjay]

Thanks lads. I don't think he would be the type to hang on till the bitter end. If he leaves I guess next year would fit after the lions tour, giving another guy a few years to slot in.

 

[big ginger 8]

Thanks lads. I don't think he would be the type to hang on till the bitter end. If he leaves I guess next year would fit after the lions tour, giving another guy a few years to slot in.

I don't know. He was saying how he feels he's got a lot of unfinished business in an Irish jersey (understandably) and he's someone who won't like that at all.

 

[Darwin]

Really enjoyed this game. Several things I'll say:

1. Julian Savea is awesome. Did really well this game, extremely good debut.
2. Steve Hansen and his coaching staff are very poor when it comes to substitutions, taking Julian Savea off to put Aaron Cruden at inside centre and Sonny Bill Williams on the wing is just so stupid. Cruden is a very good flyhalf so should get a run there rather than putting two players out of position.
3. Aaron Smith was quality. Great passing and skills. Thought his decisions making was occasionally wrong, like keeping it in the forwards, but much better than Weepu.
4. Ali Williams still sucks.
5. I have a huge amount of respect for McCaw, but it's time we start looking for a replacement. Daniel Carter still is very sharp and the best 10 in the world, but Richie McCaw looked very old out there and his handling has been poor all season. He's a legend, but he doesn't look like he's got the speed to be a great openside anymore so he needs to look at improving his ball running and making the move to blindside.
6. Sonny Bill Williams made a lot of handling errors, but to be honest he hit the line at pace which is what I want. Think he needs to play with more ball security but he didn't do too poorly in my opinion. He was at least on the right track, even if he messed up a bit. Just don't like him on wing.
7. Zac Guildford is so overrated and Ben Smith I still don't think is quick enough for wing.
8. Carter, Read, Dagg and Savea had blinders.
9. Nigel Owens was very lenient towards Ireland. They infringed ALOT, like so many breakdowns it wasn't funny. If we didn't win by a comfortable margin I'd have been very, very annoyed.
10. If Adam Thomson does the "You Can't See Me" hand wave again, I'm going to hurt him somehow.

Agree entirely with points 1,2,3,4,6,8, and 10 (though didn't think Ali Williams was really that bad when he came on). I think it is too early to make a judgement on McCaw yet, as he is getting back to his best (though do agree we need to blood someone soon!). The only point I disagree with is point 7 (no surprised there!). What exactly did Guildford do so wrong in this game? He didn't get the opportunities that Savea got, but worked hard, defended well, and didn't make any errors (that I can recall). He certainly didn't have a storming game like Savea, but he was very solid, and I'm sure will get more chances in the next match if continues to work hard. I'm also not sure what Ben Smith did this match to suggest he lacked pace? He ran the ball twice - on his first run he made it well past the advantage line, and on his second he went past two defenders and made a great offload to put Carter into the gap. I can't remember a single time in the game he was found wanting for pace ?!?!?!

It seems I have the ability to settle the vbookie does everyone have this?

No only you have this special power, as you have the first post in the thread

Right, my thoughts on the game. Very happy with the performance of the AB's in there first match - they certainly weren't perfect, but it was a pretty convincing start to the season.

The tight 5 was solid: Retallick was pretty quiet on debut, but did a lot of work cleaning out around the breakdown, which is just want I want from my TH lock. The NZ lineout functioned exceptionally well, which is great to see! McCaws handling let him down on occasions, but he made good yards with ball in hand. Vito was solid, but a wee bit quiet (hopefully he gets more chances next week), while Read had moments of brilliance (as he often does these days).

There were a number of stars in the backline, starting with Aaron Smith. As I predicted Smith really added another dimension to the AB's backline with his passing game - it was noticeable how the game pace slowed when Weepu replaced him! Smith also looked dangerous with a few darts round the base of the ruck, which he needs to keep doing to make sure defenders don't simply fan out wide early. It was great to see Carter back in black, and playing some superb rugby. His defense was exceptional, and I was incredibly impressed with his goal-kicking (after looking a bit shaky early in the season). Cruden looked good too when he came on. SBW had a mixed game as mentioned by Nick - his defense and straight running were good, but his handling let him down. He should get a chance to redeem himself next week. Smith lead the AB's backline defense brilliantly, and was rewarded with a try at the end. Savea was brilliant - he recovered very well from the mistake he made with the first touch of the ball! I was particularily impressed with his defense and handling - he was unrecognizable from the nervous lad who struggled with the step-up to Super Rugby last season. Not sure what happens to Dagg in test rugby, but he played easily his best game of the season. Sure he made a few mistakes (passing too early to Guildford was one example), but he was devastating with ball in hand, and his punting was impressive too. Ben Smith looked very sharp when he came on, and may even be given a chance on the right-wing next week (as he is not going to displace Dagg at fullback!).

I thought Ireland did ok up front - they certainly weren't destroyed in the scrums as some had predicted. Hopefully the injury to Cian Healy isn't too serious, as they can't afford to loose another top prop! I wasn't overly impressed with Tuohy, but thought Ryan had a good game at lock - he certainly has a big work-rate. O'Mahony was pretty quiet, and I thought Heaslip tried hard but wasn't really given the platform to be effective. O'Brien is and interesting one: he make a huge number of runs and tackles, and was quite effective at the breakdown, but whenever I watch him he looks umm......small. He certainly runs hard, but he seemed to lack the size to get over the advantage line - looking at his stats he is not a small player, so I'm not quite sure why I think he looks small!

Murray was a bit ponderous at the back of the breakdown (though got poor ball to work with) - he plays like Mike Phillips but is 15kg too light! I thought Reddan looked much better when he came on. I remain unconvinced with the O'Driscoll/Earls pairing in the midfield. I thought both the wings were very solid, but neither really got many chances (apart from McFaddens try). Kearney looked good when he was given space, but unfourtunately (for Ireland) he wasn't given much room to move.

 

[Peat]

Cave is also one of those players who is a master of getting injured at exactly the wrong moment.

HB Scot - I'm sorry, but you're wrong. You're wrong in thinking the Irish think the coach and his works are the sole problem, and wrong in suggesting it's not the biggest.

 

[big ginger 8]

No only you have this special power, as you have the first post in the thread

O'Brien is and interesting one: he make a huge number of runs and tackles, and was quite effective at the breakdown, but whenever I watch him he looks umm......small. He certainly runs hard, but he seemed to lack the size to get over the advantage line - looking at his stats he is not a small player, so I'm not quite sure why I think he looks small!

Yay let me start the next one I promise I won't abuse my powers as with great power comes great responsibility.

While O'Brien didn't really get over the advantage line today that's not really the norm. Making linebreaks is one of his specialties I think it was more down to good N.Z. defense and not using him intelligently.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MM5B7p7NDck" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[HB Scot]

Sadly I don't think we rugby fans will have the pleasure of seeing him in England 2015... winning captain for the Lions in Aus next year would be a perfect platform to retire from the test arena. He is a class act and will be very hard to replace.

 

[Darwin]

Yay let me start the next one I promise I won't abuse my powers as with great power comes great responsibility.

While O'Brien didn't really get over the advantage line today that's not really the norm. Making linebreaks is one of his specialties I think it was more down to good N.Z. defense and not using him intelligently.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MM5B7p7NDck" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

Haha... he certainly doesn't look as 'small' in that video! I think the problem he can sometimes have is that he runs very upright at times - that is fine if you run into gaps / at backs, but if you run like that straight at opposition forwards (as he did v NZ) it is very difficult to break the advantage line. I will certainly watch him closely over the next couple of tests...

 

[smartcooky]

The only point I disagree with is point 7 (no surprised there!). What exactly did Guildford do so wrong in this game? He didn't get the opportunities that Savea got, but worked hard, defended well, and didn't make any errors (that I can recall). He certainly didn't have a storming game like Savea, but he was very solid, and I'm sure will get more chances in the next match if continues to work hard.

I agree. Zac Guildford does ****-loads work off the ball, getting himself into positions to be involved whenever and wherever he can. The try he missed in the first half wasn't really his fault. Dagg passed him the ball too early, allowing the last defender to "slide". Dagg needed to hold on a fraction longer so that the defender was committed, to tackling him, then the pass would have put Guildford in the clear. Guildford is also really a specialist left winger playing on the right wing last night.

I'm also not sure what Ben Smith did this match to suggest he lacked pace? He ran the ball twice - on his first run he made it well past the advantage line, and on his second he went past two defenders and made a great offload to put Carter into the gap. I can't remember a single time in the game he was found wanting for pace ?!?!?!

....not to mention that, had he not been held back by Zebo when he was running in support of Read after the restart where Read caught the ball and ran almost to the Irish goal-line, Smith well have scored a try.


Does anyone know what the Irish were blowing up about after Savea scored his second try (about 36min)? Two Irish players (the two players whose tackles Savea broke to score the try) were going off at Nigel Owens while the TMO was telling him to award the try. BOD came over and had something to say too, and Owens said he would talk to them in a moment, but we never heard what it was about.